Which will matter more - full pay or boot straps story?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These essay topics sound boring and have been done a million times. Does she have any interests to talk about? Any other type of journey?

This. The OP strategy is a surefire way to rejection from T20.

[Anonymous]

Today's YCBK talks about how the tax bill (endowment tax, Pell Grant, student loans, college reimbursement, 529 plans, Medicare and overall impact of bill on college admissions) will impact the coming cycle.

In the past, he did discuss an inclination towards full pay (he did say that a few months ago bc of funding cuts).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looking at t20 colleges

We live in nyc and kid attended under-resourced public schools k-8 and then private for HS

She has a few essays in prelim stage. But hard to know what colleges will be looking for. In the past, I would have said the story. And one essay mentions that “distance traveled” in a way that’s organic and appropriate.

The other doesn’t, although it’s interesting and good. We’ll likely be full pay but I’d like to at least throw our css in, just in case things change.

I don’t really know how colleges would know we’re full pay our Neighborhood and schools are mixed. But she could drop some bits to make her some well off.

Which is more compelling these days. Can’t have it both way n

Yes - thats part of the question. Landscape doesn’t help much in a lot of Brooklyn for example.

Then this is a question for counselor who is familiar with brooklyn full pay candidates who may appear to poor?

All I will say is that the world is very different after this last cycle. I know way too many people who tried to have it both ways (with CSS/FAFSA just in case) and then got WL at 8 schools never to be chosen off the WL. Play the long game now. These schools not only want full pay, they actually NEED full pay.
Harvard announced a hiring freeze (like Northwestern and Cornell did in the spring). Things are not just going to get better. Different IPs come into play (institutional priorities). Two equal candidates from a school, one looks wealthier than the other - both do not add to "diversity" or have any other hooks. Who do you think gets into a private college?

We already know Michigan OOS openly favors full-pay kids from private HS. Not surprising given their financial situation as well.

If the question is, how do we showcase wealth in an application? That's been answered here before - I can find the post if you want.
It includes:
- don't include SSN in the Common App
- include titles for parents jobs where they indicate a high level of prestige or wealth (C-Suite, Managing Partner, Founder) etc - even if slightly misleading
- include top-tier parent college info (many will tell you to omit) esp for the graduate level
- include ECs that signify wealth or that paying tuition is not a problem (but don't write essays about it)

What is the reason not to include SSN?

it's a myth

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ agree w this

But also agree w op that kid should have one “story”. We all contain multitudes. But you want your kid to be reducible in this case: “here’s the Brooklyn kid who started the soccer shoe swap and has a 4.0 at Dominican academy”

someone posted so my agree with this agrees with the wrong person lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looking at t20 colleges

We live in nyc and kid attended under-resourced public schools k-8 and then private for HS

She has a few essays in prelim stage. But hard to know what colleges will be looking for. In the past, I would have said the story. And one essay mentions that “distance traveled” in a way that’s organic and appropriate.

The other doesn’t, although it’s interesting and good. We’ll likely be full pay but I’d like to at least throw our css in, just in case things change.

I don’t really know how colleges would know we’re full pay our Neighborhood and schools are mixed. But she could drop some bits to make her some well off.

Which is more compelling these days. Can’t have it both way n

Yes - thats part of the question. Landscape doesn’t help much in a lot of Brooklyn for example.

Then this is a question for counselor who is familiar with brooklyn full pay candidates who may appear to poor?

All I will say is that the world is very different after this last cycle. I know way too many people who tried to have it both ways (with CSS/FAFSA just in case) and then got WL at 8 schools never to be chosen off the WL. Play the long game now. These schools not only want full pay, they actually NEED full pay.
Harvard announced a hiring freeze (like Northwestern and Cornell did in the spring). Things are not just going to get better. Different IPs come into play (institutional priorities). Two equal candidates from a school, one looks wealthier than the other - both do not add to "diversity" or have any other hooks. Who do you think gets into a private college?

We already know Michigan OOS openly favors full-pay kids from private HS. Not surprising given their financial situation as well.

If the question is, how do we showcase wealth in an application? That's been answered here before - I can find the post if you want.
It includes:
- don't include SSN in the Common App
- include titles for parents jobs where they indicate a high level of prestige or wealth (C-Suite, Managing Partner, Founder) etc - even if slightly misleading
- include top-tier parent college info (many will tell you to omit) esp for the graduate level
- include ECs that signify wealth or that paying tuition is not a problem (but don't write essays about it)

What is the reason not to include SSN?

The SSN is only required for Financial Aid. If you complete it, the numbers are XX'd out for the AO. If you don't complete, it just says blank. Its a soft way that they can tell if you applied for aid or not.
Discussed here (link below) and on YCBK podcasts recently as well.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1221854.page

my kid applied SCEA to Princeton, we didn't do SSN, and we did our FA forms much much later. this was just last cycle so my memory is pretty clear on this. if you dont turn your FA forms in early to Princeton (and yale .. and maybe others), you aren't disqualified from receiving FA, you just won't get your offer back when you get your SCEA decision.

isn't this true for RD too? financial forms due later. you can fill in SSN numbers then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These essay topics sound boring and have been done a million times. Does she have any interests to talk about? Any other type of journey?

what essay topics?

OP didn't say the essay topics. she said kid is weighing a couple: one which demonstrates more of a distance traveled story and one that connotes some wealth. and is asking, in 2025, what will colleges want more.

I think for the last 10 years, AOs really liked the distance traveled. especially in the last two cycles when they couldn't look at race and were looking at wealth as a proxy.

This year, I bet we see more leaning into full pay.

If essays were equal in other ways, I'd go for the one that signals some means. if it shows depth of character, academic interest, etc. But that's assumed.

In my apartment building we have such a kid. Kid grew up with addict mom, moved in with aunt for high school.

DCUM is a very suburban vanilla population where all the kids have Invisalign and all the parents are triggered by pronouns. This is not the place for a nuanced discussion about class. They think you're coming for their lax bro kid's spot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Today's YCBK talks about how the tax bill (endowment tax, Pell Grant, student loans, college reimbursement, 529 plans, Medicare and overall impact of bill on college admissions) will impact the coming cycle.

In the past, he did discuss an inclination towards full pay (he did say that a few months ago bc of funding cuts).

If you read the transcript, he says out loud who gets hit the hardest by endowment tax:
8% tax:
Harvard
Yale (Yale has said it's expected to have to pay $280 million a year in the first year out of pocket (with increasing amounts ea year)).**
Princeton
Stanford
MIT

** Yale immediately announced a hiring freeze, lower salary increases for faculty and staff and delay of capex

4% tax:
U Richmond
Rice
Duke
Columbia
Emory
Notre Dame
Dartmouth
Vanderbilt
WashU
UPenn and more

1.4% tax (current?):
Brown
Northwestern
UChicago and more

So will the top two categories pivot HARDER to full pay students?

From the podcast:
"At some colleges, the higher endowment tax exceeds the college's total financial aid budget....making it diffiucult for colleges to continue to award very generous financial aid".
"Its not an edowment tax anymore, its a research university tax".

Mark said tuition hikes are inevitable.

Who wins?
Small liberal arts colleges - bc of their successful lobbying efforts (exemption for colleges enrolling less than 3000 tuition paying students). The best experiences at college in the next few years will be at SLACs.
Grinnell went from paying $2.4M under the current tax to now being entirely tax exempt.

[Anonymous]

Is there a list somewhere of all the schools that fall into the 4% category? My rising junior DC will be chasing merit, and I suspect a number of the schools we’ve been considering may be on that list.

[Anonymous]

I bet Yale (and the others) admit a lot more full-pay REA candidates this year.

Its a whole new world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is there a list somewhere of all the schools that fall into the 4% category? My rising junior DC will be chasing merit, and I suspect a number of the schools we’ve been considering may be on that list.

This? Google works.
https://www.aei.org/education/how-much-will-universities-pay-in-endowment-tax/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today's YCBK talks about how the tax bill (endowment tax, Pell Grant, student loans, college reimbursement, 529 plans, Medicare and overall impact of bill on college admissions) will impact the coming cycle.

In the past, he did discuss an inclination towards full pay (he did say that a few months ago bc of funding cuts).

If you read the transcript, he says out loud who gets hit the hardest by endowment tax:
8% tax:
Harvard
Yale (Yale has said it's expected to have to pay $280 million a year in the first year out of pocket (with increasing amounts ea year)).**
Princeton
Stanford
MIT

** Yale immediately announced a hiring freeze, lower salary increases for faculty and staff and delay of capex

4% tax:
U Richmond
Rice
Duke
Columbia
Emory
Notre Dame
Dartmouth
Vanderbilt
WashU
UPenn and more

1.4% tax (current?):
Brown
Northwestern
UChicago and more

So will the top two categories pivot HARDER to full pay students?

From the podcast:
"At some colleges, the higher endowment tax exceeds the college's total financial aid budget....making it diffiucult for colleges to continue to award very generous financial aid".
"Its not an edowment tax anymore, its a research university tax".

Mark said tuition hikes are inevitable.

Who wins?
Small liberal arts colleges - bc of their successful lobbying efforts (exemption for colleges enrolling less than 3000 tuition paying students). The best experiences at college in the next few years will be at SLACs.
Grinnell went from paying $2.4M under the current tax to now being entirely tax exempt.

Outside HYPSM, it's hardly a hit, a scratch maybe.

Upenn pays 58M, Brown pays 9M next year. Not something significantly enough to make them change institutional priorities. Upenn just announced this year increasing the HHI level for full financial aid students. They will stick to their words for sure.

[Anonymous]

Look at see who is slashing budgets, hiring freezes and reducing benefits. Maybe that's a clue as to who will have more financial aid budgetary pressure?

Harvard:
https://www.harvardmagazine.com/2025/07/harvard-hiring-freeze-update

Yale:
https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2025/07/01/yale-pauses-hiring-tightens-budget-in-anticipation-of-endowment-tax-hike/

Princeton:
https://paw.princeton.edu/article/princeton-freezes-most-hiring-eisgruber-warns-federal-attacks-higher-ed

Brown:
https://www.browndailyherald.com/article/2025/06/brown-extends-staff-hiring-freeze-announces-plans-for-more-drastic-cost-cutting-measures

Northwestern:
https://dailynorthwestern.com/2025/07/15/top-stories/we-were-blindsided-northwestern-insurance-changes-met-with-backlash-faculty-led-petition/

https://dailynorthwestern.com/2025/06/10/lateststories/northwestern-administration-announces-hiring-freeze-academic-permanent-budget-reductions/

Cornell:
https://www.cornellsun.com/article/2025/06/staff-cuts-hiring-restrictions-anticipated-as-university-faces-profound-financial-challenges

https://www.cornellsun.com/article/2025/06/the-one-big-beautiful-bill-threatens-to-tax-cornell-s-endowment-reduce-affordability

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Looking at t20 colleges

We live in nyc and kid attended under-resourced public schools k-8 and then private for HS

She has a few essays in prelim stage. But hard to know what colleges will be looking for. In the past, I would have said the story. And one essay mentions that “distance traveled” in a way that’s organic and appropriate.

The other doesn’t, although it’s interesting and good. We’ll likely be full pay but I’d like to at least throw our css in, just in case things change.

I don’t really know how colleges would know we’re full pay our Neighborhood and schools are mixed. But she could drop some bits to make her some well off.

Which is more compelling these days. Can’t have it both way n

Full pay.

Nothing in your post speaks "bootstraps" in any genuine sense.

[Anonymous]

For T20, authenticity matters most. Absolutely nothing wrong with being UMC who has tottered between public and private schools. As long as the student is compelling.

There does seem to be a barbell distribution at some schools between wealthy and FGLI. But if that’s not your space, don’t bother pretending one way or another. Just be their genuine self. Selective colleges see 40,000+ apps every year. They’ve seen it all. Be true and things will go better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looking at t20 colleges

We live in nyc and kid attended under-resourced public schools k-8 and then private for HS

She has a few essays in prelim stage. But hard to know what colleges will be looking for. In the past, I would have said the story. And one essay mentions that “distance traveled” in a way that’s organic and appropriate.

The other doesn’t, although it’s interesting and good. We’ll likely be full pay but I’d like to at least throw our css in, just in case things change.

I don’t really know how colleges would know we’re full pay our Neighborhood and schools are mixed. But she could drop some bits to make her some well off.

Which is more compelling these days. Can’t have it both way n

Full pay.

Nothing in your post speaks "bootstraps" in any genuine sense.

she didnt post the essays .. what are you talking about