Should I become a Muslim or an Anglo-Catholic Episcopalian?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The music doesn’t lie. Episcopalian all the way.

Agree - if music is important to OP the episcopal churces that I have attended have wry beautiful sacred music whereas the music at Catholic Churches was mediocre at best.

Also Episcopalians are encouraged to read sacred scriptures for themselves and draw our own conclusions. There is very little dogmatism and Neoplatonic philosophical approaches are welcome.

However choosing a faith community is very individual. I have heard a number of people say that following Islam is very different to popular misconceptions. I personally would find the restrictions on women intolerable but many women say they feel very respected in this religion.

I agree with PP who said to explore and keep options open until OP finds the best fit for them.

Best wishes to OP for finding their spiritual home.

The Muslim couples I know are much more egalitarian than the Christian ones. The Muslim women I know are high achieving professionals and their husbands know to treat them as equals. The Christian men I know infantilize their wives.

Sure you do.

This was not PP
To whom you replied. I have met Muslim women who feel this way and believe you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is PaleoConPrep. I’m a former radical Traditionalist Catholic turned fervent Neoplatonist. I worship the One( the metaphysical foundation of reality and the source of beauty/love/goodness) I see the Trinity as nonsensical and view the Old and New Testaments as useful only insofar as they teach love of neighbor and good morals( I don’t see them as historical) Nevertheless, I love sacred choral music and it’s a way for me to encounter the divine

I insist on the absolute unity of God( which Islam emphasizes ) but also love beautiful choral music and art. I know there’s really no tradition which has both

What should I do? Anglo-Catholic Episcopal parishes have the aesthetics I crave but I align more with Islam theologically

Why not simultaneously or one by one, explore both religions and decide once you feel more drawn to one?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the New Testament on women:
"Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord.

For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the savior.

Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything."

No, be honest. That’s Paul on women. Jesus never said that.

Oh, only certain parts of the Bible count? Tell that to the multiple conservative Christian communities that are completely fine with raping children.

Apparently only certain parts count since the reference above about men was immediately dismissed. We were reminded that women should “submit,” but we are to ignore the much longer verse about men respecting/cherishing their wives.

I don't want to submit to my husband no matter how much he "cherishes" me. Countless generations of women have been abused by their husbands and the Bible was used to support that abuse.

So then don’t read Paul’s letters. Read the gospels, where Jesus pardons the prostitute, or where he tells Martha to come out of the kitchen and learn from him alongside Mary and the men.

Right, I'll just pay attention to the not horrible parts of Christianity and ignore the rest.

Seems like you are willing to ignore the parts with good instructions/intentions and pay attention exclusively to the parts you don’t like.

Still cherry picking.

So, to review, the Koran has some bad parts and that makes Islam fundamentally violent and mispgynistic so not worth OP exploring.

On the other hand, Christianity is only peaceful and good for women and anyone concerned about misogyny or the call for slaves to submit to their masters are just "ignoring" the good parts. Only White Christian people can be good and any mention of their role in the largest mass murder in history is "petulant."

Ok, sure.

I’m the PP you’re replying to, and all I posted was one Bible verse. Haven’t said a single thing about the Koran. Heck, I haven’t even said a thing about ignoring the bad parts of the Bible. I’m well aware they are there.

That’s a really strange conclusion to draw based on the posts on this thread. Why don’t we stick with what’s actually here instead of jumping to outlandish conclusions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the New Testament on women:
"Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord.

For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the savior.

Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything."

No, be honest. That’s Paul on women. Jesus never said that.

Oh, only certain parts of the Bible count? Tell that to the multiple conservative Christian communities that are completely fine with raping children.

Apparently only certain parts count since the reference above about men was immediately dismissed. We were reminded that women should “submit,” but we are to ignore the much longer verse about men respecting/cherishing their wives.

I don't want to submit to my husband no matter how much he "cherishes" me. Countless generations of women have been abused by their husbands and the Bible was used to support that abuse.

So then don’t read Paul’s letters. Read the gospels, where Jesus pardons the prostitute, or where he tells Martha to come out of the kitchen and learn from him alongside Mary and the men.

Right, I'll just pay attention to the not horrible parts of Christianity and ignore the rest.

Seems like you are willing to ignore the parts with good instructions/intentions and pay attention exclusively to the parts you don’t like.

Still cherry picking.

So, to review, the Koran has some bad parts and that makes Islam fundamentally violent and mispgynistic so not worth OP exploring.

On the other hand, Christianity is only peaceful and good for women and anyone concerned about misogyny or the call for slaves to submit to their masters are just "ignoring" the good parts. Only White Christian people can be good and any mention of their role in the largest mass murder in history is "petulant."

Ok, sure.

I’m the PP you’re replying to, and all I posted was one Bible verse. Haven’t said a single thing about the Koran. Heck, I haven’t even said a thing about ignoring the bad parts of the Bible. I’m well aware they are there.

That’s a really strange conclusion to draw based on the posts on this thread. Why don’t we stick with what’s actually here instead of jumping to outlandish conclusions.

It's bizarre to respond to comments not directed at you and not identify yourself as a DP. Are you really this bored?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the New Testament on women:
"Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord.

For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the savior.

Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything."

No, be honest. That’s Paul on women. Jesus never said that.

Oh, only certain parts of the Bible count? Tell that to the multiple conservative Christian communities that are completely fine with raping children.

Apparently only certain parts count since the reference above about men was immediately dismissed. We were reminded that women should “submit,” but we are to ignore the much longer verse about men respecting/cherishing their wives.

I don't want to submit to my husband no matter how much he "cherishes" me. Countless generations of women have been abused by their husbands and the Bible was used to support that abuse.

So then don’t read Paul’s letters. Read the gospels, where Jesus pardons the prostitute, or where he tells Martha to come out of the kitchen and learn from him alongside Mary and the men.

Right, I'll just pay attention to the not horrible parts of Christianity and ignore the rest.

Seems like you are willing to ignore the parts with good instructions/intentions and pay attention exclusively to the parts you don’t like.

Still cherry picking.

So, to review, the Koran has some bad parts and that makes Islam fundamentally violent and mispgynistic so not worth OP exploring.

On the other hand, Christianity is only peaceful and good for women and anyone concerned about misogyny or the call for slaves to submit to their masters are just "ignoring" the good parts. Only White Christian people can be good and any mention of their role in the largest mass murder in history is "petulant."

Ok, sure.

I’m the PP you’re replying to, and all I posted was one Bible verse. Haven’t said a single thing about the Koran. Heck, I haven’t even said a thing about ignoring the bad parts of the Bible. I’m well aware they are there.

That’s a really strange conclusion to draw based on the posts on this thread. Why don’t we stick with what’s actually here instead of jumping to outlandish conclusions.

It's bizarre to respond to comments not directed at you and not identify yourself as a DP. Are you really this bored?

Are you really this mean? Hopefully you are the same person making nasty responses anonymously on the internet that you'd never make publicly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the New Testament on women:
"Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord.

For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the savior.

Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything."

No, be honest. That’s Paul on women. Jesus never said that.

Oh, only certain parts of the Bible count? Tell that to the multiple conservative Christian communities that are completely fine with raping children.

Apparently only certain parts count since the reference above about men was immediately dismissed. We were reminded that women should “submit,” but we are to ignore the much longer verse about men respecting/cherishing their wives.

I don't want to submit to my husband no matter how much he "cherishes" me. Countless generations of women have been abused by their husbands and the Bible was used to support that abuse.

So then don’t read Paul’s letters. Read the gospels, where Jesus pardons the prostitute, or where he tells Martha to come out of the kitchen and learn from him alongside Mary and the men.

Right, I'll just pay attention to the not horrible parts of Christianity and ignore the rest.

Seems like you are willing to ignore the parts with good instructions/intentions and pay attention exclusively to the parts you don’t like.

Still cherry picking.

So, to review, the Koran has some bad parts and that makes Islam fundamentally violent and mispgynistic so not worth OP exploring.

On the other hand, Christianity is only peaceful and good for women and anyone concerned about misogyny or the call for slaves to submit to their masters are just "ignoring" the good parts. Only White Christian people can be good and any mention of their role in the largest mass murder in history is "petulant."

Ok, sure.

I’m the PP you’re replying to, and all I posted was one Bible verse. Haven’t said a single thing about the Koran. Heck, I haven’t even said a thing about ignoring the bad parts of the Bible. I’m well aware they are there.

That’s a really strange conclusion to draw based on the posts on this thread. Why don’t we stick with what’s actually here instead of jumping to outlandish conclusions.

It's bizarre to respond to comments not directed at you and not identify yourself as a DP. Are you really this bored?

Are you really this mean? Hopefully you are the same person making nasty responses anonymously on the internet that you'd never make publicly.

Trolls don't like being called out

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is PaleoConPrep. I’m a former radical Traditionalist Catholic turned fervent Neoplatonist. I worship the One( the metaphysical foundation of reality and the source of beauty/love/goodness) I see the Trinity as nonsensical and view the Old and New Testaments as useful only insofar as they teach love of neighbor and good morals( I don’t see them as historical) Nevertheless, I love sacred choral music and it’s a way for me to encounter the divine

I insist on the absolute unity of God( which Islam emphasizes ) but also love beautiful choral music and art. I know there’s really no tradition which has both

What should I do? Anglo-Catholic Episcopal parishes have the aesthetics I crave but I align more with Islam theologically

You have the need to fit somewhere, although you obviously don't fit anywhere theologically. So what? Most people don't. Do what you want.

For instance, you can listen to church music on your own time and then attend muslim services and get involved with a muslim community. You can go to Anglican easter and Christmas services as a non-member just to hear the music. If you believe in God, you believe he created it all. You can pick and choose as you like.

[Anonymous]

In Islam, you must grow a beard, abstain from alcohol, and there are other rules. Study up in detail before converting to understand the commitment fully.

Given your background, a Reformed Episcopal Church (within ACNA) might be a good fit. Very traditional services that will feel familiar to you and women sometimes wear veils like in trad Catholic congregations. Other ACNA churches vary greatly, some have more contemporary services that you might not vibe with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is PaleoConPrep. I’m a former radical Traditionalist Catholic turned fervent Neoplatonist. I worship the One( the metaphysical foundation of reality and the source of beauty/love/goodness) I see the Trinity as nonsensical and view the Old and New Testaments as useful only insofar as they teach love of neighbor and good morals( I don’t see them as historical) Nevertheless, I love sacred choral music and it’s a way for me to encounter the divine

I insist on the absolute unity of God( which Islam emphasizes ) but also love beautiful choral music and art. I know there’s really no tradition which has both

What should I do? Anglo-Catholic Episcopal parishes have the aesthetics I crave but I align more with Islam theologically

Looking for something that perfectly suits you? Make up your own religion. It's been done before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is PaleoConPrep. I’m a former radical Traditionalist Catholic turned fervent Neoplatonist. I worship the One( the metaphysical foundation of reality and the source of beauty/love/goodness) I see the Trinity as nonsensical and view the Old and New Testaments as useful only insofar as they teach love of neighbor and good morals( I don’t see them as historical) Nevertheless, I love sacred choral music and it’s a way for me to encounter the divine

I insist on the absolute unity of God( which Islam emphasizes ) but also love beautiful choral music and art. I know there’s really no tradition which has both

What should I do? Anglo-Catholic Episcopal parishes have the aesthetics I crave but I align more with Islam theologically

Looking for something that perfectly suits you? Make up your own religion. It's been done before.

Yes, like Jedi, Scientology, Mormons, and Christians.

[Anonymous]

Hmm to go from Catholicism to Islam is quite a jump. Makes me question if you ever truly understood Christianity. The God of Christianity and Allah of Islam are quite different. I am not sure why you emphasize "unity" over things like the actual nature of God as taught by these two religions. Our highest calling on earth is to live God, which implies knowing God and having a relationship with him. I would be more concerned about the Person/God you are having a relationship (what qualities God possessed) vs something technical like is the Trinity true unity or whatever your hang up is a the Trinity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the New Testament on women:
"Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord.

For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the savior.

Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything."

No, be honest. That’s Paul on women. Jesus never said that.

Oh, only certain parts of the Bible count? Tell that to the multiple conservative Christian communities that are completely fine with raping children.

Apparently only certain parts count since the reference above about men was immediately dismissed. We were reminded that women should “submit,” but we are to ignore the much longer verse about men respecting/cherishing their wives.

I don't want to submit to my husband no matter how much he "cherishes" me. Countless generations of women have been abused by their husbands and the Bible was used to support that abuse.

So then don’t read Paul’s letters. Read the gospels, where Jesus pardons the prostitute, or where he tells Martha to come out of the kitchen and learn from him alongside Mary and the men.

Right, I'll just pay attention to the not horrible parts of Christianity and ignore the rest.

Seems like you are willing to ignore the parts with good instructions/intentions and pay attention exclusively to the parts you don’t like.

Still cherry picking.

So, to review, the Koran has some bad parts and that makes Islam fundamentally violent and mispgynistic so not worth OP exploring.

On the other hand, Christianity is only peaceful and good for women and anyone concerned about misogyny or the call for slaves to submit to their masters are just "ignoring" the good parts. Only White Christian people can be good and any mention of their role in the largest mass murder in history is "petulant."

Ok, sure.

I’m the PP you’re replying to, and all I posted was one Bible verse. Haven’t said a single thing about the Koran. Heck, I haven’t even said a thing about ignoring the bad parts of the Bible. I’m well aware they are there.

That’s a really strange conclusion to draw based on the posts on this thread. Why don’t we stick with what’s actually here instead of jumping to outlandish conclusions.

It's bizarre to respond to comments not directed at you and not identify yourself as a DP. Are you really this bored?

In my opinion, you are the bizarre one, and probably bored too.

[Anonymous]

Have you tried an Eastern Orthodox church before?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hmm to go from Catholicism to Islam is quite a jump. Makes me question if you ever truly understood Christianity. The God of Christianity and Allah of Islam are quite different. I am not sure why you emphasize "unity" over things like the actual nature of God as taught by these two religions. Our highest calling on earth is to live God, which implies knowing God and having a relationship with him. I would be more concerned about the Person/God you are having a relationship (what qualities God possessed) vs something technical like is the Trinity true unity or whatever your hang up is a the Trinity.

No, they are supposed to be the same god. Same with Jews. They are all abrahamic faiths. Thus, in theory, it's the one and only God. How people interpret it is the problem.

[Anonymous]

OP here
I want to tank everyone for responding. I’ve come to the conclusion that being a Neoplatonist( without any regular organized religion) is probably the best way to go for me. I can attend Choral Evensong services or other choral events at Episcopal parishes and listen to sacred music on my own

Neither the New Testament nor the Qur’an take the approach I do towards God.