Worth taking the UPenn shot?

[Anonymous]

We fell for Penn too. Girl, engineering. Higher stats and better, more in depth ECs.
Big fat no.
Just cast a wide net! Go for it but be smart.
Good luck!

[Anonymous]

PP. daughter loved the summer VT program. Will be awesome for yours to have that option, too!

[Anonymous]

Engineering apps to Penn are a higher proportion each year, with females making up 35% of the SEAS applications and 40% of the entering class the last few years.
The overall Engineering admit rate has been under 3.5% for 5 cycles, RD and ED combined, this year likely under 3% based on the numbers shared with prep school counselors so far.
Seas has been more competitive than Wharton for the past 5 years.
Engineering is very popular with females at ivies and other top schools that emphasize small classes and interdisciplinary focus. Even CS is getting close to half females in the app pool, and BME interest at top private schools is heavily skewed, often 60+% females

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My junior DD attends the governor’s school here in Virginia. She has a 3.8/3.9 uw / 4.2 w GPA with a 1390 SAT. She’s going to take the SAT again in August, but, for this question, assume she’s not able to increase. She will most likely be a.NMSF and attained a perfect math score on the PSAT. She is interested in pursuing engineering. Probably either electrical or mechanical at this point. We toured a ton of schools in Pennsylvania over break. She will apply to plenty of safety schools, but she really loved the vibe and campus at UPenn. Is it worth her taking an ED shot or is there absolutely no way that she will get in given her low SAT score? She will ED1 and we are able to full pay. She has played a varsity for all four years, another varsity sport for two years, has over 140 hours of volunteering, including volunteering with two organizations since sixth grade. She’s in several honor societies and has a part-time job amongst other ECs. She was just accepted into the engineering summer program at Virginia Tech. Would love to hear thoughts. Is it even worth her spending her time applying or should she focus on other less competitive schools. She really loved Pitt as well so a more realistic contender.

4.2W is barely above average at the 2 virginia gov schools that are most well known, and the UW to W implies that the rigor must be underwhelming compared to the students who end up at T20s.
1390 SAT is well below average there.
OP your student is overall around average in their high school.
Upenn is not happening.
UVA and VT in-state will be very difficult from a governor’s school.

[Anonymous]

Yes, ED to Penn.

[Anonymous]

Fine to apply but manage expectations also. Ivy is a lottery for an unhooked kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have a kid at Penn Engineering now. Did MV Calc in HS. It is not accurate that many are a year beyond that in HS.

My kid loves it and the programs are very supportive of women.

Best of luck, whatever she decides to do!!

Also have DD at Penn in Engineering, agree a large group of SEAS kids did MV calc in high school, though it is not more than half. Very few did past MVC in HS. Parents complain on FB every year how hard the calc courses are even though their kids reportedly had 5s on BC and aced the SAT math. Both the BC equivalent(1400)and the multivariable course (1410) are an entirely different level than what is offered in high schools/typical dual enrollment.
Penn engineering is certainly supportive given that the cohort/classes are small, but it is very fast-paced and many students get overwhelmed when they are "average", getting more B's than As, yet have friends with 3.8 and above and balancing research, arts, volunteering/clubs along with engineering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How can you be NMSF with only 1390 sat? Is that a typo?

Not a typo. Nmf is based on psat, not sat

I also have a junior with a psat index of 223 (so likely to be nmsf in VA) who, so far, only has a 1380 on the SAT. Planning on taking it again, but it is what it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can you be NMSF with only 1390 sat? Is that a typo?

Not a typo. Nmf is based on psat, not sat

I also have a junior with a psat index of 223 (so likely to be nmsf in VA) who, so far, only has a 1380 on the SAT. Planning on taking it again, but it is what it is.

Nice to meet another family in the same boat. Here’s to both our kids increasing their SAT score. Where is your child planning to apply if you don’t mind me asking? I feel that 1390 score is so on the edge at most places. She wants to apply to UMD so trying to decide if we should submit. Definitely not to UVA. Interestingly, when I look back at average SAT scores for U Penn in 2019 (pre-Covid), the 50% range started at 1420 versus 1500 today. Definitely some test score inflation thanks to test optional. Not saying that the school will ever go back to those lower numbers, but an interesting data point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can you be NMSF with only 1390 sat? Is that a typo?

Not a typo. Nmf is based on psat, not sat

I also have a junior with a psat index of 223 (so likely to be nmsf in VA) who, so far, only has a 1380 on the SAT. Planning on taking it again, but it is what it is.

Nice to meet another family in the same boat. Here’s to both our kids increasing their SAT score. Where is your child planning to apply if you don’t mind me asking? I feel that 1390 score is so on the edge at most places. She wants to apply to UMD so trying to decide if we should submit. Definitely not to UVA. Interestingly, when I look back at average SAT scores for U Penn in 2019 (pre-Covid), the 50% range started at 1420 versus 1500 today. Definitely some test score inflation thanks to test optional. Not saying that the school will ever go back to those lower numbers, but an interesting data point.

So, UVA is still test optional. We are in the fortunate position of our kids being able to go test optional and also listing that nmf, meaning that the schools will know they don't have a terrible sat score (assuming they make the cutoff for nmf, which is the commended index)

My kid is applying to UVA, William and Mary, VT, VCU, Northeastern, Emory, Kenyon, Oberlin and Susquehanna. She is also trying with the idea of Penn 😁 (the list is in flux)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can you be NMSF with only 1390 sat? Is that a typo?

Not a typo. Nmf is based on psat, not sat

I also have a junior with a psat index of 223 (so likely to be nmsf in VA) who, so far, only has a 1380 on the SAT. Planning on taking it again, but it is what it is.

Nice to meet another family in the same boat. Here’s to both our kids increasing their SAT score. Where is your child planning to apply if you don’t mind me asking? I feel that 1390 score is so on the edge at most places. She wants to apply to UMD so trying to decide if we should submit. Definitely not to UVA. Interestingly, when I look back at average SAT scores for U Penn in 2019 (pre-Covid), the 50% range started at 1420 versus 1500 today. Definitely some test score inflation thanks to test optional. Not saying that the school will ever go back to those lower numbers, but an interesting data point.

The 2019-20 CDS lists 1450-1560 as the middle 50% for UPenn, very similar to 3 ivies and most of the T10. 3 other ivies (B/D/Cornell)were lower and one never released CDS then (Columbia, assumed to be lowest of all ivies since they never released it when it was test required).
CDS before that year has a significant amount of testers who took the prior SAT structure which had 99th %ile as 1490, such that one cannot compare the scores from the CDS pre-2019-20 to now.
The LAST Test required CDS is the the 2020-2021 (freshman on campus fall 2020 were admitted under test required and had their testing done by Dec 1st 2019, precovid): 1460-1570, also in line with HYP and higher than Brown/Dartmouth/Cornell(1420-1440 to 1560).
In other words based on percentiles when Penn and HYP required tests that last cycles before TO, about 75% of the matriculated students at these schools had SAT scores 98-99th %ile, with lower ivies B/D/Cornell having 75% of students at or above the 96th%ile. It is not much different now (1510 is the 98th%ile now!) and will not be too different when it is all test required again.

[Anonymous]

^1390 is 92nd %ile. The ivies have not had a mi-50% range that started at the 92nd percentile in over 15 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can you be NMSF with only 1390 sat? Is that a typo?

Not a typo. Nmf is based on psat, not sat

I also have a junior with a psat index of 223 (so likely to be nmsf in VA) who, so far, only has a 1380 on the SAT. Planning on taking it again, but it is what it is.

Nice to meet another family in the same boat. Here’s to both our kids increasing their SAT score. Where is your child planning to apply if you don’t mind me asking? I feel that 1390 score is so on the edge at most places. She wants to apply to UMD so trying to decide if we should submit. Definitely not to UVA. Interestingly, when I look back at average SAT scores for U Penn in 2019 (pre-Covid), the 50% range started at 1420 versus 1500 today. Definitely some test score inflation thanks to test optional. Not saying that the school will ever go back to those lower numbers, but an interesting data point.

So, UVA is still test optional. We are in the fortunate position of our kids being able to go test optional and also listing that nmf, meaning that the schools will know they don't have a terrible sat score (assuming they make the cutoff for nmf, which is the commended index)

My kid is applying to UVA, William and Mary, VT, VCU, Northeastern, Emory, Kenyon, Oberlin and Susquehanna. She is also trying with the idea of Penn 😁 (the list is in flux)

Them cutoff for NMSF is not the same as the commended index unless you are from a low scoring state

[Anonymous]

Shoot your shot if you really need to scratch that itch. The chances with that profile are low. Really really low.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can you be NMSF with only 1390 sat? Is that a typo?

Not a typo. Nmf is based on psat, not sat

I also have a junior with a psat index of 223 (so likely to be nmsf in VA) who, so far, only has a 1380 on the SAT. Planning on taking it again, but it is what it is.

Nice to meet another family in the same boat. Here’s to both our kids increasing their SAT score. Where is your child planning to apply if you don’t mind me asking? I feel that 1390 score is so on the edge at most places. She wants to apply to UMD so trying to decide if we should submit. Definitely not to UVA. Interestingly, when I look back at average SAT scores for U Penn in 2019 (pre-Covid), the 50% range started at 1420 versus 1500 today. Definitely some test score inflation thanks to test optional. Not saying that the school will ever go back to those lower numbers, but an interesting data point.

So, UVA is still test optional. We are in the fortunate position of our kids being able to go test optional and also listing that nmf, meaning that the schools will know they don't have a terrible sat score (assuming they make the cutoff for nmf, which is the commended index)

My kid is applying to UVA, William and Mary, VT, VCU, Northeastern, Emory, Kenyon, Oberlin and Susquehanna. She is also trying with the idea of Penn 😁 (the list is in flux)

Them cutoff for NMSF is not the same as the commended index unless you are from a low scoring state

There is a SAT requirement for nmf, in addition to the psat requirement. For the psat score, you need to be in the top one percent of your state. For the sat, you need a "confirming score" which is usually the commended cutoff.

https://www.compassprep.com/psat-national-merit-faq/