Why are UC schools test blind vs test optional? Also, do UC schools have required % of in state students like uva/unc?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:typical suburban middle class/umc high school of 2000 students with 500 per class will get around 20 students enrolled in berkeley or ucla. at some, you'll see around 30

Nope. town in Santa Clara county , 2000 kids 470-500 seniors, admits 10-12 per year to a Berkeley , 7-9 asian, less than 3 to O white, AA and Latino. Usually admits 1-2 Latinos or white kids for sports but the sports kids always decline for a school that has a better team, scholarship etc. Most admits STEM, with 1-2 non STEM. Mostly girls. A white male hasn’t been accepted to Berkeley from our school in years. School is majority white, Asian close second. Valedictorian, top club leaders, class president get rejected, waitlisted at mid tiers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Title status my question. Just curious about rationale for test blind. So many apps, so much grade inflation...

They don’t need tests to align their mission. The UCs have extensive general ed requirements coming out of high school and they act as the first filter since less than 50% of CA high school grads even qualify for UC admission.

Then they have really detailed info on their high schools and how they perform.

State wide representation is part of their mission as well so looking at the top performers at every school gives them a good pool of applicants even if not an optimized one.

They prioritize social mobility so they look at FGLI rates as well.

The result is that they it is tough for everyone, sure tough from a high SES area and not ‘fair’ in some way for the above reasons. They don’t discriminate racially but they heavily discriminate based on SES.

They can do all the things you are talking about with direct preferences. They can use a Texas plan to get in state geographic diversity. They can have an explicit fgli preference They don't need to abandon testing to get there.

They cannot have racial preferences and so they abandon testing to get there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Title status my question. Just curious about rationale for test blind. So many apps, so much grade inflation...

Why aren't more schools test optional (TO)?

DP

Because tests provide be reliable information for competitive schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The UC schools believe that standardized testing is racist. That’s why.

This. They did extensive analysis of the standardized test and found it biased against certain races so they don’t use it.

There research on this is pretty extensive and it's not board against any races. There is an entire field of psychology dedicated to remove that sort of bias.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:typical suburban middle class/umc high school of 2000 students with 500 per class will get around 20 students enrolled in berkeley or ucla. at some, you'll see around 30

No way! Half that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The UC schools believe that standardized testing is racist. That’s why.

Not true. The UC's know that kids with income are more likely to take the test and have tutors, that kids with low incomes are not even going to take it.

The mandate for the UC is to educate graduates of PUBLIC SCHOOLS in California.

It is to align with this mandate and not discard many highly academic kids who are not able to afford to take the SAT

How do you know if they’re “highly academic” if their schools are subpar and they don’t even take an SAT?

Skin color

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The UC schools believe that standardized testing is racist. That’s why.

This. They did extensive analysis of the standardized test and found it biased against certain races so they don’t use it.

Actually they did an extensive analysis of standardized tests, said they were one of the best predictors of college performance across all racial and SES groups and recommended keeping standardized tests for admissions. The University of California system headed by Janet Napolitano decided to ignore this and go test blind.

This is only true for competitive schools. The SAT/ACT has limited value for Cal State schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son’s urban CA high school was 3.8 uw and 4.2 w for the top 10%, so I’m not sure if grade inflation is as much an issue here as in VA and MD. As noted, UC has extensive knowledge of CA high schools and the historic performance of their kids.

UCs also consider AP scores if submitted and strong AP results enhance an application. It is similar to NYU which as a test optional school allows students to substitute specified types of AP scores for the SAT/ACT.

At my son’s HS, Cal and UCLA take from the top 2% with maybe some out to 5%, with nearly all from a special elite program that disproportionately serves middle and upper middle class white and Asian kids.

UCs are selective, just in their own way. UC Davis with a higher admission rate as a school away from the coast is the underrated one in terms of educational quality and student experience.

But as you wrote, it's "away from the coast" Kids want the coast.

It’s the UC with the shortest distance to great skiing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are evaluating students compared to others at their same high schools. So your kid goes to a high school in Silicon Valley with 50 national merit scholars it is going to be tough for you to get into ucla and Berkeley if your kid is a national merit scholar but 40th in the class.

The 40th top student might have 10 AP’s with 4’s and 5’s all A’s and maybe one or two B’s. And took bc Calc in 11th grade. The top 20 at a school like that might have taken calculus on 9th or 10th grade and has done well in competition math.

Not that UC’s factor in psat scores but looking at how many national merit scholars there are gives you an idea how competitive a school is.

ELC (excellence in local context) is what matters as the first cut, especially at competitive high schools. That is the top 9% of the school. If you are in the bay area and you aren't designated as ELC you're unlikely to get into UCLA or UCB.

If I remember correctly, the top 9% of the school guarantees UC admission, most likely UC Merced, Riverside or Santa Cruz. But it isn’t going to get a kid into Cal or UCLA that often. As I said upthread, at my son’s HS, they took out of the top 2%-3%, maybe one or two out of the top 5%.

How long ago did your son apply?

This year. Accepted at Davis and Santa Cruz, rejected at Cal. He was one of those 9% kids.

Did he end up going? My son just completed his first year at Davis and loves it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:URMs as a whole do not do well on standardized tests.

This is racist bullshit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son’s urban CA high school was 3.8 uw and 4.2 w for the top 10%, so I’m not sure if grade inflation is as much an issue here as in VA and MD. As noted, UC has extensive knowledge of CA high schools and the historic performance of their kids.

UCs also consider AP scores if submitted and strong AP results enhance an application. It is similar to NYU which as a test optional school allows students to substitute specified types of AP scores for the SAT/ACT.

At my son’s HS, Cal and UCLA take from the top 2% with maybe some out to 5%, with nearly all from a special elite program that disproportionately serves middle and upper middle class white and Asian kids.

UCs are selective, just in their own way. UC Davis with a higher admission rate as a school away from the coast is the underrated one in terms of educational quality and student experience.

But as you wrote, it's "away from the coast" Kids want the coast.

It’s the UC with the shortest distance to great skiing.

Yes, the owner of Crepeville by Central Park complained to me about student workers who would get out of their shifts last minute if the Sierras had gotten some snow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are evaluating students compared to others at their same high schools. So your kid goes to a high school in Silicon Valley with 50 national merit scholars it is going to be tough for you to get into ucla and Berkeley if your kid is a national merit scholar but 40th in the class.

The 40th top student might have 10 AP’s with 4’s and 5’s all A’s and maybe one or two B’s. And took bc Calc in 11th grade. The top 20 at a school like that might have taken calculus on 9th or 10th grade and has done well in competition math.

Not that UC’s factor in psat scores but looking at how many national merit scholars there are gives you an idea how competitive a school is.

ELC (excellence in local context) is what matters as the first cut, especially at competitive high schools. That is the top 9% of the school. If you are in the bay area and you aren't designated as ELC you're unlikely to get into UCLA or UCB.

If I remember correctly, the top 9% of the school guarantees UC admission, most likely UC Merced, Riverside or Santa Cruz. But it isn’t going to get a kid into Cal or UCLA that often. As I said upthread, at my son’s HS, they took out of the top 2%-3%, maybe one or two out of the top 5%.

How long ago did your son apply?

This year. Accepted at Davis and Santa Cruz, rejected at Cal. He was one of those 9% kids.

Did he end up going? My son just completed his first year at Davis and loves it.

Sadly for me and my wife, no, too close to home (Sacramento). Glad to hear that your son loves it. I went there decades ago (only 13,000 undergrads!) and didn’t really appreciate what was being created there. A charmingly unpretentious place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are evaluating students compared to others at their same high schools. So your kid goes to a high school in Silicon Valley with 50 national merit scholars it is going to be tough for you to get into ucla and Berkeley if your kid is a national merit scholar but 40th in the class.

The 40th top student might have 10 AP’s with 4’s and 5’s all A’s and maybe one or two B’s. And took bc Calc in 11th grade. The top 20 at a school like that might have taken calculus on 9th or 10th grade and has done well in competition math.

Not that UC’s factor in psat scores but looking at how many national merit scholars there are gives you an idea how competitive a school is.

ELC (excellence in local context) is what matters as the first cut, especially at competitive high schools. That is the top 9% of the school. If you are in the bay area and you aren't designated as ELC you're unlikely to get into UCLA or UCB.

If I remember correctly, the top 9% of the school guarantees UC admission, most likely UC Merced, Riverside or Santa Cruz. But it isn’t going to get a kid into Cal or UCLA that often. As I said upthread, at my son’s HS, they took out of the top 2%-3%, maybe one or two out of the top 5%.

How long ago did your son apply?

This year. Accepted at Davis and Santa Cruz, rejected at Cal. He was one of those 9% kids.

Did he end up going? My son just completed his first year at Davis and loves it.

Sadly for me and my wife, no, too close to home (Sacramento). Glad to hear that your son loves it. I went there decades ago (only 13,000 undergrads!) and didn’t really appreciate what was being created there. A charmingly unpretentious place.

Saiorse Ronan’s characin Lady Bird felt the same way as your son. That was a hilarious scene.

[Anonymous]

*character in*

[Anonymous]

Test should be mandatory or it's racist