Why are UC schools test blind vs test optional? Also, do UC schools have required % of in state students like uva/unc?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Title status my question. Just curious about rationale for test blind. So many apps, so much grade inflation...

They don’t need tests to align their mission. The UCs have extensive general ed requirements coming out of high school and they act as the first filter since less than 50% of CA high school grads even qualify for UC admission.

Then they have really detailed info on their high schools and how they perform.

State wide representation is part of their mission as well so looking at the top performers at every school gives them a good pool of applicants even if not an optimized one.

They prioritize social mobility so they look at FGLI rates as well.

The result is that they it is tough for everyone, sure tough from a high SES area and not ‘fair’ in some way for the above reasons. They don’t discriminate racially but they heavily discriminate based on SES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Title status my question. Just curious about rationale for test blind. So many apps, so much grade inflation...

Why aren't more schools test optional (TO)?

[Anonymous]

My son’s urban CA high school was 3.8 uw and 4.2 w for the top 10%, so I’m not sure if grade inflation is as much an issue here as in VA and MD. As noted, UC has extensive knowledge of CA high schools and the historic performance of their kids.

UCs also consider AP scores if submitted and strong AP results enhance an application. It is similar to NYU which as a test optional school allows students to substitute specified types of AP scores for the SAT/ACT.

At my son’s HS, Cal and UCLA take from the top 2% with maybe some out to 5%, with nearly all from a special elite program that disproportionately serves middle and upper middle class white and Asian kids.

UCs are selective, just in their own way. UC Davis with a higher admission rate as a school away from the coast is the underrated one in terms of educational quality and student experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son’s urban CA high school was 3.8 uw and 4.2 w for the top 10%, so I’m not sure if grade inflation is as much an issue here as in VA and MD. As noted, UC has extensive knowledge of CA high schools and the historic performance of their kids.

UCs also consider AP scores if submitted and strong AP results enhance an application. It is similar to NYU which as a test optional school allows students to substitute specified types of AP scores for the SAT/ACT.

At my son’s HS, Cal and UCLA take from the top 2% with maybe some out to 5%, with nearly all from a special elite program that disproportionately serves middle and upper middle class white and Asian kids.

UCs are selective, just in their own way. UC Davis with a higher admission rate as a school away from the coast is the underrated one in terms of educational quality and student experience.

But as you wrote, it's "away from the coast" Kids want the coast.

[Anonymous]

The UC schools believe that standardized testing is racist. That’s why.

[Anonymous]

UC AO at an information session: “The primary goal of the UC system is to advance social mobility.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The UC schools believe that standardized testing is racist. That’s why.

This. They did extensive analysis of the standardized test and found it biased against certain races so they don’t use it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m guessing their test blind to increase diversity.

How do they feel about poor grammar?

There fine with it. 😀

YEP! Diversity in all academic areas.

[Anonymous]

Yes and no. UCs are restricted to something like no more than 18-20%non instate without state budget allowance consequences. However this year they increased overall admissions, reduced the % of in state , increased out of state by 9-10% and increased international by 10-15%. We will see where they end up on enrollment.

You really can’t look at the admit rate. Take UC Irvine it has a 27% acceptance rate for in state but a 47% rate for out of state. UC Davis had a 4% acceptance rate at our school but over 60% for OOS.

UC admissions are brutal for certain areas in Silicon Valley and very generous in others. For in state in some zip codes, you need perfect stats, a less impacted major, and a bunch of ECs, awards, APs and DE courses to get waitlisted at mid tiers. If your school doesn’t offer or gates the number of AP or honors courses then you have to go outside it to the community colleges while in high school to be competitive. If you are in a less affluent suburb, city or rural area, Latino, AA, Hmong, Laotian, Native American, first generation low income or veteran then you are competitive with a 3.7, just having a part time job and rigor only aligned with what is in your school. UC does not accept LORs from counselors or teachers so there is little consequence for lying on ECs or volunteer hours or making up that you founded a startup. Many engineering students throw up a web page or GitHub site or get a parent to invest. Cheating is an art form among a portion of the admits.

If you are OOS, UC wants your money. UC only cares about social mobility for in state. There is no aid for OOS. You are most attractive having a heavy load of AP or IB courses. Honors will not give you a bump. Your courses need to align with UC AG requirements. UCs application is different than common app but applies to all UCs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The UC schools believe that standardized testing is racist. That’s why.

This. They did extensive analysis of the standardized test and found it biased against certain races so they don’t use it.

No , they found that certain demographics scored poorly on all standardized tests both SAT and the CA state tests. It correlates with socioeconomic status and culture. The test itself is not biased by race. It’s biased against students who don’t have the means, motivation or access to prepare beyond what is covered in the classroom.

UC demographics at the top schools for in state students do not align with demographic scores, gpa and college readiness capabilities. There is no way for UC to pursue the social mobility goal without being test blind. It would leave them open to legal consequences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m guessing their test blind to increase diversity.

It's CA, diversity is easy. Geographic diversity is what is hard in CA and that is what it is designed to fix.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They are evaluating students compared to others at their same high schools. So your kid goes to a high school in Silicon Valley with 50 national merit scholars it is going to be tough for you to get into ucla and Berkeley if your kid is a national merit scholar but 40th in the class.

The 40th top student might have 10 AP’s with 4’s and 5’s all A’s and maybe one or two B’s. And took bc Calc in 11th grade. The top 20 at a school like that might have taken calculus on 9th or 10th grade and has done well in competition math.

Not that UC’s factor in psat scores but looking at how many national merit scholars there are gives you an idea how competitive a school is.

ELC (excellence in local context) is what matters as the first cut, especially at competitive high schools. That is the top 9% of the school. If you are in the bay area and you aren't designated as ELC you're unlikely to get into UCLA or UCB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are evaluating students compared to others at their same high schools. So your kid goes to a high school in Silicon Valley with 50 national merit scholars it is going to be tough for you to get into ucla and Berkeley if your kid is a national merit scholar but 40th in the class.

The 40th top student might have 10 AP’s with 4’s and 5’s all A’s and maybe one or two B’s. And took bc Calc in 11th grade. The top 20 at a school like that might have taken calculus on 9th or 10th grade and has done well in competition math.

Not that UC’s factor in psat scores but looking at how many national merit scholars there are gives you an idea how competitive a school is.

ELC (excellence in local context) is what matters as the first cut, especially at competitive high schools. That is the top 9% of the school. If you are in the bay area and you aren't designated as ELC you're unlikely to get into UCLA or UCB.

LOL the NMS kids at our school did not get into UCB and only 2 got into UCLA! Some of the admits were really bizarre this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Title status my question. Just curious about rationale for test blind. So many apps, so much grade inflation...

UCs are huge schools. They aren’t carefully cultivating the perfect class. They don’t care if they are taking the most qualified or just made the cut candidates. They magically hit very similar demographics and geographic (micro even) each year. They magically achieve their goal of increasing Latino representation when that became a goal. They are masters of proxy affirmative action but that’s what they want so OK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are evaluating students compared to others at their same high schools. So your kid goes to a high school in Silicon Valley with 50 national merit scholars it is going to be tough for you to get into ucla and Berkeley if your kid is a national merit scholar but 40th in the class.

The 40th top student might have 10 AP’s with 4’s and 5’s all A’s and maybe one or two B’s. And took bc Calc in 11th grade. The top 20 at a school like that might have taken calculus on 9th or 10th grade and has done well in competition math.

Not that UC’s factor in psat scores but looking at how many national merit scholars there are gives you an idea how competitive a school is.

ELC (excellence in local context) is what matters as the first cut, especially at competitive high schools. That is the top 9% of the school. If you are in the bay area and you aren't designated as ELC you're unlikely to get into UCLA or UCB.

If I remember correctly, the top 9% of the school guarantees UC admission, most likely UC Merced, Riverside or Santa Cruz. But it isn’t going to get a kid into Cal or UCLA that often. As I said upthread, at my son’s HS, they took out of the top 2%-3%, maybe one or two out of the top 5%.