Why are UC schools test blind vs test optional? Also, do UC schools have required % of in state students like uva/unc?
![[Post New]](/jforum/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif){kind=icon}
Anonymous
| Title status my question. Just curious about rationale for test blind. So many apps, so much grade inflation... |
Anonymous
| I’m guessing their test blind to increase diversity. |
Anonymous
| You could have googled in less time than it took to post a thread. |
Anonymous
How do they feel about poor grammar? |
Anonymous
There fine with it. 😀 |
Anonymous
They look at transcripts and see what classes were taken. GPA isn’t everything. They are also aware what GPAs mean coming from certain schools, regions, etc. |
Anonymous
It’s this 100%. |
Anonymous
Yes, most of their kids come from California and they have a LOT of data on California high schools. They also look at AP/IB scores, or at least UCLA and Cal do. They’re only blind to the SAT/ACT. |
Anonymous
| They also don't look at freshman year grades and recalculate the GPA with a limit on the # of APs. |
Anonymous
| Does anyone know if UCLA, UCSD and Cal use AI to do an initial sort of applications? I would think with 150,000-175,000 applications they must be using AI. |
Anonymous
They are more concerned about diversity than selectivity. At least at the undergrad level. Their reputations are largely driven by their graduate programs at this point. |
Anonymous
| Test optional would still allow for holistic admissions and diversity, so i still do not understand why test blind? Why not have access to that additional data point if kids want to submit? |
Anonymous
|
They are evaluating students compared to others at their same high schools. So your kid goes to a high school in Silicon Valley with 50 national merit scholars it is going to be tough for you to get into ucla and Berkeley if your kid is a national merit scholar but 40th in the class.
The 40th top student might have 10 AP’s with 4’s and 5’s all A’s and maybe one or two B’s. And took bc Calc in 11th grade. The top 20 at a school like that might have taken calculus on 9th or 10th grade and has done well in competition math. Not that UC’s factor in psat scores but looking at how many national merit scholars there are gives you an idea how competitive a school is. |
Anonymous
This explains the dilemma the UC system faces. https://jbhe.com/2022/10/the-persisting-racial-gap-in-scores-on-the-sat-college-entrance-examination/ Given this DCUM, one can anticipate dismal of these numbers as racist. But this piece is from the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education. Roughly 2000 blacks score 1400 or over each year. The Journal asks some good questions, noting a lack of certainty with the data (e.g., foreign students versus those born and raised here). The state for years has had a legal prohibition against race preferences. That is unacceptable to the competitive schools, so not requiring test scores is a virtual necessity to maintain, especially in a state like California which has a low percentage of black students. Even test optional would create data that could expose the system’s actual practices. Look at this from a national perspective. Under the recent Supreme Court decision, how can the top 50 schools each gain matriculation from these 2000 students? It is not easy for even the Harvards of the universe. The kids they want often get full rides to flagships, which often make a lot of sense for those kids, especially since the flagship choice might mean choosing a major with better economic prospects. Look at the college I attended. With a 6 percent acceptance rate, they hustle to get 25 non-athlete minority students to enroll. They are rare in that they are one of two top 10 schools in a Power 4 conference so they get some help from that source. One thing about test scores is that seemingly conflicting notions can simultaneously be true. It is the case that test scores do not always reflect talent. But it is also the case that test scores although imperfect have better predictability than most other factors. This is why MIT pulled test optional. They were compelled to offer a remedial math class (algebra), and that simply doesn’t work for a school like MIT. Note that one should not leap to conclusion that mostly minorities were in the remedial class. Rather there were students with wholly insufficient math preparation being admitted. As imperfect as they are, the test scores act as a filter. Below is an article from a blogger called the Education Realist from 12 years ago who describes the plight of Kashawn Campbell at Cal. Reading the article, although race likely played some role, it appears that the kid was far from neuro-typical and needed support to go anywhere, not just Cal. And I don’t even think it is a case about preferences in admissions. What it revolves around is the woeful state of high schools. This kid gets a 4.0 in high school and is second in the class? How? Worse yet he seems like a truly nice and enthusiastic kid and to place him in a terrifying environment to satisfy a virtue signaling objective seems cruel. The article does provide a bit of insight into what the top Cal schools face. https://educationrealist.wordpress.com/2013/08/26/kashawn-campbell/ |
Anonymous
| Allows them to look diverse while still collecting enough out of state tuition to stay afloat. |