Exact opposite. Belief=faith and faith, by definition, does not equal certainty. |
So first you say I am "wrong", and then admit that I am right about not coming to christ from a vacuum, and then provide examples, none of which indicate that I am wrong. Well done. |
Not sure what your definition of either belief or faith is. Some people say both belief and faith to mean certainty about specific propositions. I find people who are more concerned with hope, doubt, and practice tend to talk about faith but not so much about belief. Just saying they are the same isn't super helpful. We may be more in agreement than not, but I'm not sure. |
DP, but I think you're both talking about different things. I was raised in an American Protestant church and there were definitely aspects of certainty to a lot of it. There was "certainty" that God existed and that the Trinity was real. It seemed to be the how of those things that you had to take on faith, because understanding them was beyond the human mind. But try being a curious 10 year old who asks how we know God is there and you will be met with absolute certainty about that. Faith is even about certainty - the certainty that it all must make sense in some way beyond our comprehension, so we shouldn't question it too hard. |
I agree with these two previous posts. What I don't understand was the poster who said, "Uh...no. Christians do not believe this." To this poster, you do realize that Jesus was a Jew? He was born into a Jewish family and was raised in Jewish traditions. He participated in Jewish customs and teachings, which is evident throughout the New Testament. Take for example Matthew 5:17, Jesus says, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." Jesus' mission was a continuation and fulfillment of Jewish teachings. For a non-theist, this is in part why certain aspects of religion make zero sense, especially the "Holy Trinity" idea of Christians. |
Sorry; I believe we have different definitions of the term "in a vacuum." |
Lol.. "Sorry", I believe you know exactly what I meant and your post confirmed it. The proof is in your own words: "No, they did not come to Christ in what I assume you mean by a vacuum". |
DP, I assumed by "in a vacuum" you meant "without a Christian background/upbringing." I would consider someone who is secular/atheist and then had some bad luck in life and found Jesus to be coming to Christianity in a vacuum. Given how pervasive Christianity is in American culture, I think that's the most vacuum-like conditions you're going to get. If by "vacuum" you meant "came from the middle of the jungle and never heard of Jesus, but then discovered Christianity while walking along a sun-dappled path and emerged from the trees to join a church," then I think you're very unrealistic. |
I think you just proved the point of the PP. There is no way someone will "find god" without the indoctrination process happening somehow, some way, at some time in your life. |
"a supportive friend, or Christian counselor, or a strong church" A supportive friend = over 60% of Americans identify as Christian. You didn't say a Jewish counselor or a strong mosque or temple. The only reason they "found" christ is because its the dominant religion in the US. Do you think they would find christ if it were something different? |
+1 Please answer this question. Enlighten me. |
+1M. |
I repeat: No you did not assume that, evidenced by your statement "No, they did not come to Christ in what I assume you mean by a vacuum." You should stop now. |
PP here. The traditional Christian position is that Christianity is the continuation of spiritual Israel. In the New Testament, Christ is called the "true Israel" and all who are in Christ are in Israel. Christ is indeed seen as the fulfillment of all that the Old Testament said about the One who was to come. Also in the New Testament, Paul points out that now there is neither Jew nor Greek [Gentile] but all are one in Christ. He also says the he is a Jew who is one inwardly. Modern Rabbinic Judaism is seen (both by their own self-identifying account and by Christians) as the continuation of the Pharisaic Judaism that Christ so opposed when He was on earth. Traditionally, Christians see this Pharisaic Rabbinic Judaism as a false Israel. |
And nothing in this explanation makes the original statement untrue that all the abrahamic faiths are worshipping the same god, even if how they interpret how to worship/practice their faith are different. With that said, how do you square the trinity concept with it also being the jewish god? |