Makos or Marlins?

[Anonymous]

Swimio doesn't even show York as a team. They are represented on swim ranking

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Swimio doesn't even show York as a team. They are represented on swim ranking

The sounds like a swimio problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Swimio doesn't even show York as a team. They are represented on swim ranking

They are there, York Swim Club of Northern Virginia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Swimio doesn't even show York as a team. They are represented on swim ranking

https://www.myswimio.com/topeventresults.php?level=team&lsc=PV&teamid=13526&age=14&stroke=E&distance=200&courseid=1&gender=M

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In typical fashion, this thread has been hijacked. OP, it sounds like you’ve made an intentional choice not to pursue NCAP, whose various sites comprise many of the top 13-14 swimmers in PVS. For a 13-yo female swimmer, the data suggests that Makos would provide a stronger training cohort than Marlins. They have a solid number of comparable 13-14 girls to your swimmer. For a boy that age, I’d consider looking at York. SwimCloud would suggest that neither Makos nor Marlins would have much of a training cohort (it’s there, but smaller). York might provide the cohort and culture you’re seeking. (I’m not affiliated with York personally.) As others have said, location is critical in this area, as traffic is uniquely terrible. Good luck to your swimmer!

OP - Note locations when investigating all clubs. We were interested in the high performing 9-10 girls’ groups at York and Machine. Turns out, both are in North Arlington or McLean, which we could not do from where we live in Fairfax. While York and Machine have locations nearer to us, those locations were not where the strong cohorts were. So as you investigate, be sure to pin down where the top cohorts actually swim. People have provided the info in this thread as it pertains to Makos and NCAP-Burke, but not for other clubs mentioned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many top swimmers are at NCAP Burke? You can't break out the swimmers by location.

Makos are at one location so that is a fair number of good swimmers swimming with one another.

The Silver I group next year will have about 6 swimmers who have achieved at least one AAAA time and multiple AAA times.

The 13-14 Makos girls and 13-14 NCAP-Burke girls are similar, but Makos has more AAA swimmers simply because it has more swimmers (since it is the only Makos site). The NCAP-Burke Silver 1 group typically only has 10-14 swimmers (3-4 per lane).

We swim summer league with and against NCAP-Burke and Makos swimmers, and this age group (and the 11-12 below) have elite swimmers at both clubs. They all seem nice, as do their parents.

We have been at meets with Burke and I do not think there are that many swimmers who have achieved a AAAA time and will be in Silver 1 (which is 13-14 year olds) next season. They have a couple girls and 3-4 boys who will be 15 next year and are excellent (although not all have AAAA times). They do not currently have any 12 year old girls or boys with AAAA times. I know you are pumping up the Burke site but if you’re going to throw out stats at least make sure they are accurate.

This is not scientific at all, as I only know the NCAP-Burke swimmers and the Makos girl swimmers with or against whom we have swum in summer (I do data, so I’m familiar with the kids, but I don’t know the Makos boys off hand). When you look at SwimIO for their names, it seems the poster’s statement that 6 swimmers “will have at least one AAAA time” by next Fall is reasonable. I didn’t narrow my search to right now, instead looking at historical data (which allowed me to look at 12 year old times for those who just turned 13).

From my quick glance, NCAP-Burke has a swimmer who will move up by next Fall, but currently has 1 AAAA time, along with two younger 13 yo swimmers who achieved AAAA times two months ago, but then turned 13, plus three swimmers who are 12 but will be 13 next Fall and have close-to AAAA times right now.

Makos girls (I don’t know the boys) are very very strong. Two Makos girls are newly 13 and have (or had at age 12) 9 and 6 AAA times respectively. It is reasonable that these two girls will easily achieve AAAA or better by age 14. Five other 13-14 Makos girls have or had multiple AAA times either at age 12 or at age 14.

Seems to me you just need to see what works best for you.

I am not the myswimio guy, I swear, but that site is really good for stuff like this and I love messing around with numbers and stats, so I went down the rabbit hole on this. You can look at myswimio for Makos in general to see which current 13-14 and 15-16 swimmers have AAA/AAAA times and whether they are new to an age group or not. Makos best 13 year old girls are not new 13s (I only looked at the 13s with current A times or better), all of them were 13 at the first meets of this season and all but 1 of them turn 14 either right before or shortly after JOs. But yes, if the OPs swimmer is a girl, that is an extremely strong cohort assuming the top 13-14s all train together.

You can also search by NCAP overall, and that’s a little harder to figure out unless you know who the kids are at a particular site because they don’t have site identifiers (which, if you’re reading my swimio guy, if you are able to group all of NCAP as a whole but still have the site identifiers that would be cool). But there are only 6 girls and 3 boys in the 11-12 group currently who have AAAA times and none of them are from Burke. I’m familiar more with who the Burke girls are, and they did not have any girl that started this season at 12 and hit a AAAA before turning 13. There is 1 boy (there may be more but I know of the 1) and 1 girl from Burke who currently have a decent chance at hitting a AAAA at 12 before aging up to 13 for next season. I’m not saying these kids aren’t incredibly talented but based on the stats it’s a bit of a reach to say that there will be 6 kids in Burke’s Silver 1 group next year (so not including the swimmers currently in the group who will not be there next year) who will have achieved a AAAA as either an 11-12 or 13-14.

Point of clarification: There are 13 year olds who will stay in Silver I next year, and there are 12 year olds who will move up to Silver I next year. Not all Silver I swimmers move up next year because many will only be 14 next year. This is why OP needs to arrange time at each club/site with the appropriate coach. We can’t possibly know the number of openings and expected movement even within our own kid’s club.

There will always be an opening at any club for a kid who has 13-14 age group AAAs when they are 13. There are no Burke 13 year olds, boys or girls, with any 13-14 AAAs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In typical fashion, this thread has been hijacked. OP, it sounds like you’ve made an intentional choice not to pursue NCAP, whose various sites comprise many of the top 13-14 swimmers in PVS. For a 13-yo female swimmer, the data suggests that Makos would provide a stronger training cohort than Marlins. They have a solid number of comparable 13-14 girls to your swimmer. For a boy that age, I’d consider looking at York. SwimCloud would suggest that neither Makos nor Marlins would have much of a training cohort (it’s there, but smaller). York might provide the cohort and culture you’re seeking. (I’m not affiliated with York personally.) As others have said, location is critical in this area, as traffic is uniquely terrible. Good luck to your swimmer!

OP - Note locations when investigating all clubs. We were interested in the high performing 9-10 girls’ groups at York and Machine. Turns out, both are in North Arlington or McLean, which we could not do from where we live in Fairfax. While York and Machine have locations nearer to us, those locations were not where the strong cohorts were. So as you investigate, be sure to pin down where the top cohorts actually swim. People have provided the info in this thread as it pertains to Makos and NCAP-Burke, but not for other clubs mentioned.

I do not think you will have a cohort at the Marlins, they have a few good swimmers but they do not practice with one another, they are at different locations. NCAP Burke, although good, has a small cohort at that age and you would do better at the Makos. There is good and bad with the Makos. You will have a large and strong group of swimmers since they are all at the same practice location. But GMU is the practice location for all of Makos, so it tends to be pretty crazy on deck with the number of swimmers present - you don't see that at other clubs - so I would check that out and see if that works for your swimmer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many top swimmers are at NCAP Burke? You can't break out the swimmers by location.

Makos are at one location so that is a fair number of good swimmers swimming with one another.

The Silver I group next year will have about 6 swimmers who have achieved at least one AAAA time and multiple AAA times.

The 13-14 Makos girls and 13-14 NCAP-Burke girls are similar, but Makos has more AAA swimmers simply because it has more swimmers (since it is the only Makos site). The NCAP-Burke Silver 1 group typically only has 10-14 swimmers (3-4 per lane).

We swim summer league with and against NCAP-Burke and Makos swimmers, and this age group (and the 11-12 below) have elite swimmers at both clubs. They all seem nice, as do their parents.

We have been at meets with Burke and I do not think there are that many swimmers who have achieved a AAAA time and will be in Silver 1 (which is 13-14 year olds) next season. They have a couple girls and 3-4 boys who will be 15 next year and are excellent (although not all have AAAA times). They do not currently have any 12 year old girls or boys with AAAA times. I know you are pumping up the Burke site but if you’re going to throw out stats at least make sure they are accurate.

This is not scientific at all, as I only know the NCAP-Burke swimmers and the Makos girl swimmers with or against whom we have swum in summer (I do data, so I’m familiar with the kids, but I don’t know the Makos boys off hand). When you look at SwimIO for their names, it seems the poster’s statement that 6 swimmers “will have at least one AAAA time” by next Fall is reasonable. I didn’t narrow my search to right now, instead looking at historical data (which allowed me to look at 12 year old times for those who just turned 13).

From my quick glance, NCAP-Burke has a swimmer who will move up by next Fall, but currently has 1 AAAA time, along with two younger 13 yo swimmers who achieved AAAA times two months ago, but then turned 13, plus three swimmers who are 12 but will be 13 next Fall and have close-to AAAA times right now.

Makos girls (I don’t know the boys) are very very strong. Two Makos girls are newly 13 and have (or had at age 12) 9 and 6 AAA times respectively. It is reasonable that these two girls will easily achieve AAAA or better by age 14. Five other 13-14 Makos girls have or had multiple AAA times either at age 12 or at age 14.

Seems to me you just need to see what works best for you.

I am not the myswimio guy, I swear, but that site is really good for stuff like this and I love messing around with numbers and stats, so I went down the rabbit hole on this. You can look at myswimio for Makos in general to see which current 13-14 and 15-16 swimmers have AAA/AAAA times and whether they are new to an age group or not. Makos best 13 year old girls are not new 13s (I only looked at the 13s with current A times or better), all of them were 13 at the first meets of this season and all but 1 of them turn 14 either right before or shortly after JOs. But yes, if the OPs swimmer is a girl, that is an extremely strong cohort assuming the top 13-14s all train together.

You can also search by NCAP overall, and that’s a little harder to figure out unless you know who the kids are at a particular site because they don’t have site identifiers (which, if you’re reading my swimio guy, if you are able to group all of NCAP as a whole but still have the site identifiers that would be cool). But there are only 6 girls and 3 boys in the 11-12 group currently who have AAAA times and none of them are from Burke. I’m familiar more with who the Burke girls are, and they did not have any girl that started this season at 12 and hit a AAAA before turning 13. There is 1 boy (there may be more but I know of the 1) and 1 girl from Burke who currently have a decent chance at hitting a AAAA at 12 before aging up to 13 for next season. I’m not saying these kids aren’t incredibly talented but based on the stats it’s a bit of a reach to say that there will be 6 kids in Burke’s Silver 1 group next year (so not including the swimmers currently in the group who will not be there next year) who will have achieved a AAAA as either an 11-12 or 13-14.

Point of clarification: There are 13 year olds who will stay in Silver I next year, and there are 12 year olds who will move up to Silver I next year. Not all Silver I swimmers move up next year because many will only be 14 next year. This is why OP needs to arrange time at each club/site with the appropriate coach. We can’t possibly know the number of openings and expected movement even within our own kid’s club.

There will always be an opening at any club for a kid who has 13-14 age group AAAs when they are 13. There are no Burke 13 year olds, boys or girls, with any 13-14 AAAs.

Kids with fast times will be taken anywhere at any time during the season. Our club always ends up taking transfers and kids moving in the area after the New Year when all the groups are "full" for even internal movement in the club.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In typical fashion, this thread has been hijacked. OP, it sounds like you’ve made an intentional choice not to pursue NCAP, whose various sites comprise many of the top 13-14 swimmers in PVS. For a 13-yo female swimmer, the data suggests that Makos would provide a stronger training cohort than Marlins. They have a solid number of comparable 13-14 girls to your swimmer. For a boy that age, I’d consider looking at York. SwimCloud would suggest that neither Makos nor Marlins would have much of a training cohort (it’s there, but smaller). York might provide the cohort and culture you’re seeking. (I’m not affiliated with York personally.) As others have said, location is critical in this area, as traffic is uniquely terrible. Good luck to your swimmer!

OP - Note locations when investigating all clubs. We were interested in the high performing 9-10 girls’ groups at York and Machine. Turns out, both are in North Arlington or McLean, which we could not do from where we live in Fairfax. While York and Machine have locations nearer to us, those locations were not where the strong cohorts were. So as you investigate, be sure to pin down where the top cohorts actually swim. People have provided the info in this thread as it pertains to Makos and NCAP-Burke, but not for other clubs mentioned.

I do not think you will have a cohort at the Marlins, they have a few good swimmers but they do not practice with one another, they are at different locations. NCAP Burke, although good, has a small cohort at that age and you would do better at the Makos. There is good and bad with the Makos. You will have a large and strong group of swimmers since they are all at the same practice location. But GMU is the practice location for all of Makos, so it tends to be pretty crazy on deck with the number of swimmers present - you don't see that at other clubs - so I would check that out and see if that works for your swimmer.

Not at 5 am at GMU, which is when many of those kids practice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Swimio doesn't even show York as a team. They are represented on swim ranking

They are there, York Swim Club of Northern Virginia.

Not under Potomac Valley.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Swimio doesn't even show York as a team. They are represented on swim ranking

They are there, York Swim Club of Northern Virginia.

Not under Potomac Valley.

It has PV next to the team name and when you look on the lists of the current top times in PVS for various events and age groups, York swimmers are listed, so I’m not sure what you’re missing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Swimio doesn't even show York as a team. They are represented on swim ranking

They are there, York Swim Club of Northern Virginia.

Not under Potomac Valley.

It has PV next to the team name and when you look on the lists of the current top times in PVS for various events and age groups, York swimmers are listed, so I’m not sure what you’re missing.

So when searching under LSC it does now list York. It also has what appears NCAP broken out by groups on LSCs. But I think that the data is disjointed and inaccurate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Swimio doesn't even show York as a team. They are represented on swim ranking

They are there, York Swim Club of Northern Virginia.

Not under Potomac Valley.

It has PV next to the team name and when you look on the lists of the current top times in PVS for various events and age groups, York swimmers are listed, so I’m not sure what you’re missing.

So when searching under LSC it does now list York. It also has what appears NCAP broken out by groups on LSCs. But I think that the data is disjointed and inaccurate.

I think the issue is the way data is entered, and results reported, at each meet. My swimmer was at the November Open, and that site entered the NCAP swimmers with their site identifier when the data was entered. After that meet, my swimmer appeared in myswimio only under their specific NCAP site, and not under NCAP in general. After competing at NCI, which did not enter NCAP swimmers with a site identifier, my swimmer is again listed under NCAP in general but not under their specific site. The only swimmers under their specific site are ones that haven’t competed in a meet since November Open. This is a definite bug in the system that makes it confusing when you’re trying to look at ranking in the club or trying to use the relay calculator.

[Anonymous]

Swimio is buggy and inaccurate when you compare it to other sites.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I strongly encourage you to consider NCAP-Burke. We live in Fairfax too. You’re going to have a very strong cohort of kids with similar times to your child at NCAP-Burke, and the coaches are fantastic top to bottom. With your child being 13, you really need to consider the trajectory, and NCAP-Burke has that cohort.

Makos also has a strong cohort including 13-14 (age of OP Child) and is a strong program with very nice practice facility. Ncap Burke practice facility is old, dated, and not nice.

Does Makos have kids with AAA/AAAA times? My concern is they wouldn’t have a strong cohort pushing them and I don’t see Makos at many of the big meets we go to around here.

Yes makos does have swimmers with AAA/AAAA times. Keep in mind makos is a medium sized team and is much smaller than ncap/machine, so there will be less swimmers with those cuts Compared to ncap/machine. Yes makos is a strong team and some swimmers/families do not want to be part of a huge program like ncap.

Have you searched any meets on meet mobile then sorted by team? You can search mako times that way. Search these meets: sports fair winter classic 2024, swim and rock 2024 for some recent meets.

Also Go to the PVS (Potomac valley swim) website. It will list the PVS meets and meet results. You can check for swimmer times in your age group on the teams you consider.