Makos or Marlins?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Moving to the DC area this summer. Moving to Fairfax area.

Looking for a larger club which is why we are debating between the Makos and the Marlins. Have a AAA swimmer in three events, close to AAAA in two of those. AA times and A times in the rest. Swimmer is 13.

Swimmer is pretty committed to swimming but not an intense personality so not looking for a club that is yardage focused or super intense coaching. Swimmer is wanting to swim in college but is only 13 so take that with a HUGE grain of salt. I don't count on that desire sticking at so young an age. Would like the club to have a little fun and socials.

From those that know these clubs which is the better fit.

If “looking for a large club” then these are not the teams I would be considering at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many top swimmers are at NCAP Burke? You can't break out the swimmers by location.

Makos are at one location so that is a fair number of good swimmers swimming with one another.

The Silver I group next year will have about 6 swimmers who have achieved at least one AAAA time and multiple AAA times.

The 13-14 Makos girls and 13-14 NCAP-Burke girls are similar, but Makos has more AAA swimmers simply because it has more swimmers (since it is the only Makos site). The NCAP-Burke Silver 1 group typically only has 10-14 swimmers (3-4 per lane).

We swim summer league with and against NCAP-Burke and Makos swimmers, and this age group (and the 11-12 below) have elite swimmers at both clubs. They all seem nice, as do their parents.

We have been at meets with Burke and I do not think there are that many swimmers who have achieved a AAAA time and will be in Silver 1 (which is 13-14 year olds) next season. They have a couple girls and 3-4 boys who will be 15 next year and are excellent (although not all have AAAA times). They do not currently have any 12 year old girls or boys with AAAA times. I know you are pumping up the Burke site but if you’re going to throw out stats at least make sure they are accurate.

This is not scientific at all, as I only know the NCAP-Burke swimmers and the Makos girl swimmers with or against whom we have swum in summer (I do data, so I’m familiar with the kids, but I don’t know the Makos boys off hand). When you look at SwimIO for their names, it seems the poster’s statement that 6 swimmers “will have at least one AAAA time” by next Fall is reasonable. I didn’t narrow my search to right now, instead looking at historical data (which allowed me to look at 12 year old times for those who just turned 13).

From my quick glance, NCAP-Burke has a swimmer who will move up by next Fall, but currently has 1 AAAA time, along with two younger 13 yo swimmers who achieved AAAA times two months ago, but then turned 13, plus three swimmers who are 12 but will be 13 next Fall and have close-to AAAA times right now.

Makos girls (I don’t know the boys) are very very strong. Two Makos girls are newly 13 and have (or had at age 12) 9 and 6 AAA times respectively. It is reasonable that these two girls will easily achieve AAAA or better by age 14. Five other 13-14 Makos girls have or had multiple AAA times either at age 12 or at age 14.

Seems to me you just need to see what works best for you.

[Anonymous]

When we were looking between clubs, I messaged a few mamas whose kids had swum with both clubs (believe it or not, there are several families with kids split between Makos and NCAP-Burke, and many that switched from one to the other). That really helped me think about the best place for our swimmers.

[Anonymous]

OP, the one that has openings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I strongly encourage you to consider NCAP-Burke. We live in Fairfax too. You’re going to have a very strong cohort of kids with similar times to your child at NCAP-Burke, and the coaches are fantastic top to bottom. With your child being 13, you really need to consider the trajectory, and NCAP-Burke has that cohort.

Makos also has a strong cohort including 13-14 (age of OP Child) and is a strong program with very nice practice facility. Ncap Burke practice facility is old, dated, and not nice.

Does Makos have kids with AAA/AAAA times? My concern is they wouldn’t have a strong cohort pushing them and I don’t see Makos at many of the big meets we go to around here.

They have a lot of 13-16s with AAA times and they all practice in one location and together. Mako hosts most of its own meets, so they don't attend a lot of outside meets. They also don't do the big club championships (they do Sport Fair) and they attend ISCA and not NCSA, like some of the other clubs.

I’m not saying Makos isn’t a good club, but saying they have “a lot” of 13-16s with at least one AAA time is an exaggeration. They have 7 total girls and 2 total boys between the ages of 13-16 that meet that criteria.

I would say for a 400 person club Mako has a lot of high performing swimmers. Pound for pound more than other clubs. That shows that they are taking swimmers and getting them to that level - good coaching. Whereas a lot of the NCAP performers, were already proven swimmers that jumped. You also see NCAP swimmers bounce a lot back and forth, more than other clubs - almost like they need a break from that club.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many top swimmers are at NCAP Burke? You can't break out the swimmers by location.

Makos are at one location so that is a fair number of good swimmers swimming with one another.

The Silver I group next year will have about 6 swimmers who have achieved at least one AAAA time and multiple AAA times.

The 13-14 Makos girls and 13-14 NCAP-Burke girls are similar, but Makos has more AAA swimmers simply because it has more swimmers (since it is the only Makos site). The NCAP-Burke Silver 1 group typically only has 10-14 swimmers (3-4 per lane).

We swim summer league with and against NCAP-Burke and Makos swimmers, and this age group (and the 11-12 below) have elite swimmers at both clubs. They all seem nice, as do their parents.

We have been at meets with Burke and I do not think there are that many swimmers who have achieved a AAAA time and will be in Silver 1 (which is 13-14 year olds) next season. They have a couple girls and 3-4 boys who will be 15 next year and are excellent (although not all have AAAA times). They do not currently have any 12 year old girls or boys with AAAA times. I know you are pumping up the Burke site but if you’re going to throw out stats at least make sure they are accurate.

This is not scientific at all, as I only know the NCAP-Burke swimmers and the Makos girl swimmers with or against whom we have swum in summer (I do data, so I’m familiar with the kids, but I don’t know the Makos boys off hand). When you look at SwimIO for their names, it seems the poster’s statement that 6 swimmers “will have at least one AAAA time” by next Fall is reasonable. I didn’t narrow my search to right now, instead looking at historical data (which allowed me to look at 12 year old times for those who just turned 13).

From my quick glance, NCAP-Burke has a swimmer who will move up by next Fall, but currently has 1 AAAA time, along with two younger 13 yo swimmers who achieved AAAA times two months ago, but then turned 13, plus three swimmers who are 12 but will be 13 next Fall and have close-to AAAA times right now.

Makos girls (I don’t know the boys) are very very strong. Two Makos girls are newly 13 and have (or had at age 12) 9 and 6 AAA times respectively. It is reasonable that these two girls will easily achieve AAAA or better by age 14. Five other 13-14 Makos girls have or had multiple AAA times either at age 12 or at age 14.

Seems to me you just need to see what works best for you.

I am not the myswimio guy, I swear, but that site is really good for stuff like this and I love messing around with numbers and stats, so I went down the rabbit hole on this. You can look at myswimio for Makos in general to see which current 13-14 and 15-16 swimmers have AAA/AAAA times and whether they are new to an age group or not. Makos best 13 year old girls are not new 13s (I only looked at the 13s with current A times or better), all of them were 13 at the first meets of this season and all but 1 of them turn 14 either right before or shortly after JOs. But yes, if the OPs swimmer is a girl, that is an extremely strong cohort assuming the top 13-14s all train together.

You can also search by NCAP overall, and that’s a little harder to figure out unless you know who the kids are at a particular site because they don’t have site identifiers (which, if you’re reading my swimio guy, if you are able to group all of NCAP as a whole but still have the site identifiers that would be cool). But there are only 6 girls and 3 boys in the 11-12 group currently who have AAAA times and none of them are from Burke. I’m familiar more with who the Burke girls are, and they did not have any girl that started this season at 12 and hit a AAAA before turning 13. There is 1 boy (there may be more but I know of the 1) and 1 girl from Burke who currently have a decent chance at hitting a AAAA at 12 before aging up to 13 for next season. I’m not saying these kids aren’t incredibly talented but based on the stats it’s a bit of a reach to say that there will be 6 kids in Burke’s Silver 1 group next year (so not including the swimmers currently in the group who will not be there next year) who will have achieved a AAAA as either an 11-12 or 13-14.

[Anonymous]

Sizes of the locations:

Makos - approx 650, all at GMU (overflow at STJ? Or was that just during COVID?)

NCAP-Burke - approx 175 (max 200); but the Level 1 practice groups (Bronze, Silver, Gold) are intentionally very small (total, NCAP has approx 2520)

Machine - hard to know across the locations, approx 1610 total

Marlins - hard to know across the seven locations, approx 850 total

https://swimmerstats.com/teams.php

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many top swimmers are at NCAP Burke? You can't break out the swimmers by location.

Makos are at one location so that is a fair number of good swimmers swimming with one another.

The Silver I group next year will have about 6 swimmers who have achieved at least one AAAA time and multiple AAA times.

The 13-14 Makos girls and 13-14 NCAP-Burke girls are similar, but Makos has more AAA swimmers simply because it has more swimmers (since it is the only Makos site). The NCAP-Burke Silver 1 group typically only has 10-14 swimmers (3-4 per lane).

We swim summer league with and against NCAP-Burke and Makos swimmers, and this age group (and the 11-12 below) have elite swimmers at both clubs. They all seem nice, as do their parents.

We have been at meets with Burke and I do not think there are that many swimmers who have achieved a AAAA time and will be in Silver 1 (which is 13-14 year olds) next season. They have a couple girls and 3-4 boys who will be 15 next year and are excellent (although not all have AAAA times). They do not currently have any 12 year old girls or boys with AAAA times. I know you are pumping up the Burke site but if you’re going to throw out stats at least make sure they are accurate.

This is not scientific at all, as I only know the NCAP-Burke swimmers and the Makos girl swimmers with or against whom we have swum in summer (I do data, so I’m familiar with the kids, but I don’t know the Makos boys off hand). When you look at SwimIO for their names, it seems the poster’s statement that 6 swimmers “will have at least one AAAA time” by next Fall is reasonable. I didn’t narrow my search to right now, instead looking at historical data (which allowed me to look at 12 year old times for those who just turned 13).

From my quick glance, NCAP-Burke has a swimmer who will move up by next Fall, but currently has 1 AAAA time, along with two younger 13 yo swimmers who achieved AAAA times two months ago, but then turned 13, plus three swimmers who are 12 but will be 13 next Fall and have close-to AAAA times right now.

Makos girls (I don’t know the boys) are very very strong. Two Makos girls are newly 13 and have (or had at age 12) 9 and 6 AAA times respectively. It is reasonable that these two girls will easily achieve AAAA or better by age 14. Five other 13-14 Makos girls have or had multiple AAA times either at age 12 or at age 14.

Seems to me you just need to see what works best for you.

I am not the myswimio guy, I swear, but that site is really good for stuff like this and I love messing around with numbers and stats, so I went down the rabbit hole on this. You can look at myswimio for Makos in general to see which current 13-14 and 15-16 swimmers have AAA/AAAA times and whether they are new to an age group or not. Makos best 13 year old girls are not new 13s (I only looked at the 13s with current A times or better), all of them were 13 at the first meets of this season and all but 1 of them turn 14 either right before or shortly after JOs. But yes, if the OPs swimmer is a girl, that is an extremely strong cohort assuming the top 13-14s all train together.

You can also search by NCAP overall, and that’s a little harder to figure out unless you know who the kids are at a particular site because they don’t have site identifiers (which, if you’re reading my swimio guy, if you are able to group all of NCAP as a whole but still have the site identifiers that would be cool). But there are only 6 girls and 3 boys in the 11-12 group currently who have AAAA times and none of them are from Burke. I’m familiar more with who the Burke girls are, and they did not have any girl that started this season at 12 and hit a AAAA before turning 13. There is 1 boy (there may be more but I know of the 1) and 1 girl from Burke who currently have a decent chance at hitting a AAAA at 12 before aging up to 13 for next season. I’m not saying these kids aren’t incredibly talented but based on the stats it’s a bit of a reach to say that there will be 6 kids in Burke’s Silver 1 group next year (so not including the swimmers currently in the group who will not be there next year) who will have achieved a AAAA as either an 11-12 or 13-14.

Point of clarification: There are 13 year olds who will stay in Silver I next year, and there are 12 year olds who will move up to Silver I next year. Not all Silver I swimmers move up next year because many will only be 14 next year. This is why OP needs to arrange time at each club/site with the appropriate coach. We can’t possibly know the number of openings and expected movement even within our own kid’s club.

[Anonymous]

Swim parent of a D3 and D1 swimmers, I live in MoCo and we were RMSC, try several teams and go with the best fit for your kid and and schedule. There have been decent/gooe swimmers from many clubs, although NCAP probably has the most kids that swim in college. Remember, as a non revenue sport, it is highly unlikely that a male swimmer will ever get athletic scholarships to swim.

[Anonymous]

Decent/good- oops

[Anonymous]

“Ncap Burke practice facility is old, dated, and not nice.”

So true! But my kid isn’t swimming there in order to use the old treadmills or tiny weight room. And here’s something to consider—I find the tiny NCAP Burke facility to have a much safer vibe for my young teen daughter. My girls have swam at rec centers and the St James and I can’t stand the crowds of loitering randos that pop up there. If I’m running late for a pick up my daughter can wait in the tiny ugly lobby at Burke and not be approached by chatty adult men. The front desk staff is right there. Also no obvious spots for sexual assaulters to lurk. Sorry to take it down a dark path, but it is a big redeeming quality of the old facility in my mind.

And the important part—the coaches are good and my kid has friends there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Ncap Burke practice facility is old, dated, and not nice.”

So true! But my kid isn’t swimming there in order to use the old treadmills or tiny weight room. And here’s something to consider—I find the tiny NCAP Burke facility to have a much safer vibe for my young teen daughter. My girls have swam at rec centers and the St James and I can’t stand the crowds of loitering randos that pop up there. If I’m running late for a pick up my daughter can wait in the tiny ugly lobby at Burke and not be approached by chatty adult men. The front desk staff is right there. Also no obvious spots for sexual assaulters to lurk. Sorry to take it down a dark path, but it is a big redeeming quality of the old facility in my mind.

And the important part—the coaches are good and my kid has friends there.

+100!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Ncap Burke practice facility is old, dated, and not nice.”

So true! But my kid isn’t swimming there in order to use the old treadmills or tiny weight room. And here’s something to consider—I find the tiny NCAP Burke facility to have a much safer vibe for my young teen daughter. My girls have swam at rec centers and the St James and I can’t stand the crowds of loitering randos that pop up there. If I’m running late for a pick up my daughter can wait in the tiny ugly lobby at Burke and not be approached by chatty adult men. The front desk staff is right there. Also no obvious spots for sexual assaulters to lurk. Sorry to take it down a dark path, but it is a big redeeming quality of the old facility in my mind.

And the important part—the coaches are good and my kid has friends there.

Isn't that literally the facility where the abuse happened that prompted the name change from Curle-Burke?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Ncap Burke practice facility is old, dated, and not nice.”

So true! But my kid isn’t swimming there in order to use the old treadmills or tiny weight room. And here’s something to consider—I find the tiny NCAP Burke facility to have a much safer vibe for my young teen daughter. My girls have swam at rec centers and the St James and I can’t stand the crowds of loitering randos that pop up there. If I’m running late for a pick up my daughter can wait in the tiny ugly lobby at Burke and not be approached by chatty adult men. The front desk staff is right there. Also no obvious spots for sexual assaulters to lurk. Sorry to take it down a dark path, but it is a big redeeming quality of the old facility in my mind.

And the important part—the coaches are good and my kid has friends there.

Isn't that literally the facility where the abuse happened that prompted the name change from Curle-Burke?

yes

[Anonymous]

In typical fashion, this thread has been hijacked. OP, it sounds like you’ve made an intentional choice not to pursue NCAP, whose various sites comprise many of the top 13-14 swimmers in PVS. For a 13-yo female swimmer, the data suggests that Makos would provide a stronger training cohort than Marlins. They have a solid number of comparable 13-14 girls to your swimmer. For a boy that age, I’d consider looking at York. SwimCloud would suggest that neither Makos nor Marlins would have much of a training cohort (it’s there, but smaller). York might provide the cohort and culture you’re seeking. (I’m not affiliated with York personally.) As others have said, location is critical in this area, as traffic is uniquely terrible. Good luck to your swimmer!