Big Law

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC just started 2nd year as a NYC big law associate. Graduated from a top 5 Law School. Got a huge merit scholarship for law school coming from a state university. Debt free thanks to great grades and LSAT scores. Works in Corporate Finance. Works hard but deal closings have up and down times and better quality of life generally than litigation. Enjoys practice group and salary exceeding $250 K. Worked minimally Thanksgiving weekend.

Top 5 law schools don’t hand out huge merit scholarships. Name the school.

Yeah, nice try, PP.

WYKYK…you must be extremely qualified with gpa and test scores, but for top candidates Chicago, Penn, UVA Duke, Columbia, and others all offer big merit scholarships

DP. Yep. There is scholarship money out there. I was offered a lot of scholarship money. It was because I scored 99th percentile on the LSAT. You can't really plan for that, or even study hard for that; my brain just naturally works in the ways that the LSAT tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone child in Big Law. What their experience and what schools did they go to?

Encourage them to treat biglaw as a stepping stone and not a destination. In my entering class at biglaw. only 7 of the first year associates that started with me got a "permanent" position as a counsel or partner.

Pay off your debt. Build up a nest egg. Swing for the fences with a start up or raise a family as in house counsel somewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC just started 2nd year as a NYC big law associate. Graduated from a top 5 Law School. Got a huge merit scholarship for law school coming from a state university. Debt free thanks to great grades and LSAT scores. Works in Corporate Finance. Works hard but deal closings have up and down times and better quality of life generally than litigation. Enjoys practice group and salary exceeding $250 K. Worked minimally Thanksgiving weekend.

Top 5 law schools don’t hand out huge merit scholarships. Name the school.

Yeah, nice try, PP.

WYKYK…you must be extremely qualified with gpa and test scores, but for top candidates Chicago, Penn, UVA Duke, Columbia, and others all offer big merit scholarships

When I think top 5 I think Harvard Yale Stanford for sure, followed by Chicago and maybe Columbia. By and large these schools are not handing out “massive” merit scholarships to state school grads with top LSATs. Everyone at these schools has top LSATs.

In any event, the kid should count himself lucky that he got away with a nice second Thanksgiving. I wouldn’t count on that every year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, the rule of thumb for getting a job in BigLaw is to attend one of the T14 law schools. Any one of them is fine. Get good grades first year especially. Obviously, hiring will vary with the state of the market.

For undergrad, get a high GPA in a normal major at a top 100+ school. Your state flagship will do just fine. You don't need to be picky and you definitely do not need to attend a prestigious undergrad for T14 admission or for BigLaw.

Consider working full-time after college in a real-world setting for a couple of years. Definitely does not have to be a legal setting; business of some kind is perfect.

(Any minute now, someone will come along with a list of undergrad "feeders" to T14 and focus on Yale Law School specifically. Ignore them.)

Ok, I'll bite, but your post is missing some context. Agree that it's important to go to a top law school to get access to BigLaw. But disagree that you can easily access a T14 law school from any undergrad. I went to a T5 law school. We had many, many more classmates from top undergrads. For example, I was one of several in my class from my Ivy. We did have people from no name undergrads or generic state schools, but just one from each of those type of schools, and I assume they were the very top of their class. So... if you want to try to take that route, it's harder, and you have to assume you will be the very top of your class. No one knows that going in.

You don’t say how many the “several” from your Ivy are, but let’s say five? Is it easier to be one of the five from your than the single selected from Maryland or Penn State or Frostburg?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, the rule of thumb for getting a job in BigLaw is to attend one of the T14 law schools. Any one of them is fine. Get good grades first year especially. Obviously, hiring will vary with the state of the market.

For undergrad, get a high GPA in a normal major at a top 100+ school. Your state flagship will do just fine. You don't need to be picky and you definitely do not need to attend a prestigious undergrad for T14 admission or for BigLaw.

Consider working full-time after college in a real-world setting for a couple of years. Definitely does not have to be a legal setting; business of some kind is perfect.

(Any minute now, someone will come along with a list of undergrad "feeders" to T14 and focus on Yale Law School specifically. Ignore them.)

Ok, I'll bite, but your post is missing some context. Agree that it's important to go to a top law school to get access to BigLaw. But disagree that you can easily access a T14 law school from any undergrad. I went to a T5 law school. We had many, many more classmates from top undergrads. For example, I was one of several in my class from my Ivy. We did have people from no name undergrads or generic state schools, but just one from each of those type of schools, and I assume they were the very top of their class. So... if you want to try to take that route, it's harder, and you have to assume you will be the very top of your class. No one knows that going in.

Thank you. I worked in law school admissions and those who think you can just sail in to a T14 going to Podunk University are misinformed. T14 has way more from the top 30 schools and top 10 liberal arts colleges than schools ranked below 50.

[Anonymous]

Yes. Took a full ride to a mid state u and nearly a full ride to a top 20 law school. Turned down Georgetown to start their career debt-free (and to live in a town that’s more fun.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, the rule of thumb for getting a job in BigLaw is to attend one of the T14 law schools. Any one of them is fine. Get good grades first year especially. Obviously, hiring will vary with the state of the market.

For undergrad, get a high GPA in a normal major at a top 100+ school. Your state flagship will do just fine. You don't need to be picky and you definitely do not need to attend a prestigious undergrad for T14 admission or for BigLaw.

Consider working full-time after college in a real-world setting for a couple of years. Definitely does not have to be a legal setting; business of some kind is perfect.

(Any minute now, someone will come along with a list of undergrad "feeders" to T14 and focus on Yale Law School specifically. Ignore them.)

Ok, I'll bite, but your post is missing some context. Agree that it's important to go to a top law school to get access to BigLaw. But disagree that you can easily access a T14 law school from any undergrad. I went to a T5 law school. We had many, many more classmates from top undergrads. For example, I was one of several in my class from my Ivy. We did have people from no name undergrads or generic state schools, but just one from each of those type of schools, and I assume they were the very top of their class. So... if you want to try to take that route, it's harder, and you have to assume you will be the very top of your class. No one knows that going in.

Thank you. I worked in law school admissions and those who think you can just sail in to a T14 going to Podunk University are misinformed. T14 has way more from the top 30 schools and top 10 liberal arts colleges than schools ranked below 50.

That means nothing other than that top schools have more students who score really well on the LSAT - and more than anything else the LSAT is what gets you into a good law school. If you are a smart kid who tests well you can get into a top school regardless of your undergraduate degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, the rule of thumb for getting a job in BigLaw is to attend one of the T14 law schools. Any one of them is fine. Get good grades first year especially. Obviously, hiring will vary with the state of the market.

For undergrad, get a high GPA in a normal major at a top 100+ school. Your state flagship will do just fine. You don't need to be picky and you definitely do not need to attend a prestigious undergrad for T14 admission or for BigLaw.

Consider working full-time after college in a real-world setting for a couple of years. Definitely does not have to be a legal setting; business of some kind is perfect.

(Any minute now, someone will come along with a list of undergrad "feeders" to T14 and focus on Yale Law School specifically. Ignore them.)

Ok, I'll bite, but your post is missing some context. Agree that it's important to go to a top law school to get access to BigLaw. But disagree that you can easily access a T14 law school from any undergrad. I went to a T5 law school. We had many, many more classmates from top undergrads. For example, I was one of several in my class from my Ivy. We did have people from no name undergrads or generic state schools, but just one from each of those type of schools, and I assume they were the very top of their class. So... if you want to try to take that route, it's harder, and you have to assume you will be the very top of your class. No one knows that going in.

Thank you. I worked in law school admissions and those who think you can just sail in to a T14 going to Podunk University are misinformed. T14 has way more from the top 30 schools and top 10 liberal arts colleges than schools ranked below 50.

That means nothing other than that top schools have more students who score really well on the LSAT - and more than anything else the LSAT is what gets you into a good law school. If you are a smart kid who tests well you can get into a top school regardless of your undergraduate degree.

The test is much easier now without logic games and being much shorter and all the accommodations test takers get now for extended time. There is much grade inflation in colleges as well. So you need more than just a good test score and GPA now. Do these count a lot? Yes. But other factors are differentiating students such as strength of undergrad, strong job experience, leadership, awards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC just started 2nd year as a NYC big law associate. Graduated from a top 5 Law School. Got a huge merit scholarship for law school coming from a state university. Debt free thanks to great grades and LSAT scores. Works in Corporate Finance. Works hard but deal closings have up and down times and better quality of life generally than litigation. Enjoys practice group and salary exceeding $250 K. Worked minimally Thanksgiving weekend.

Top 5 law schools don’t hand out huge merit scholarships. Name the school.

People always say this but they’re wrong. My kid got a Rubenstein Scholarship to UChicago Law, as did at least 10% of his class. Full ride plus $20k annual stipend

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC just started 2nd year as a NYC big law associate. Graduated from a top 5 Law School. Got a huge merit scholarship for law school coming from a state university. Debt free thanks to great grades and LSAT scores. Works in Corporate Finance. Works hard but deal closings have up and down times and better quality of life generally than litigation. Enjoys practice group and salary exceeding $250 K. Worked minimally Thanksgiving weekend.

Top 5 law schools don’t hand out huge merit scholarships. Name the school.

Please ignore the above uniformed post.

Top 3 (Yale,Harvard, & Stanford) do not, but Columbia & Chicago do. Also, NYU & Northwestern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC just started 2nd year as a NYC big law associate. Graduated from a top 5 Law School. Got a huge merit scholarship for law school coming from a state university. Debt free thanks to great grades and LSAT scores. Works in Corporate Finance. Works hard but deal closings have up and down times and better quality of life generally than litigation. Enjoys practice group and salary exceeding $250 K. Worked minimally Thanksgiving weekend.

Top 5 law schools don’t hand out huge merit scholarships. Name the school.

People always say this but they’re wrong. My kid got a Rubenstein Scholarship to UChicago Law, as did at least 10% of his class. Full ride plus $20k annual stipend

Yea, and 90 percent of the UChicago class didn’t get the award. So they’re not just “handing them out”, just as I said.

I never said it wasn’t happening at all. And, as others have noted, it’s certainly not happening at the very top schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, the rule of thumb for getting a job in BigLaw is to attend one of the T14 law schools. Any one of them is fine. Get good grades first year especially. Obviously, hiring will vary with the state of the market.

For undergrad, get a high GPA in a normal major at a top 100+ school. Your state flagship will do just fine. You don't need to be picky and you definitely do not need to attend a prestigious undergrad for T14 admission or for BigLaw.

Consider working full-time after college in a real-world setting for a couple of years. Definitely does not have to be a legal setting; business of some kind is perfect.

(Any minute now, someone will come along with a list of undergrad "feeders" to T14 and focus on Yale Law School specifically. Ignore them.)

I went to a T14, but I wish I had gone to a cheaper law school in the 20-50. While it's easier to get into a big coast law firm from from a T14, it isn't that hard from a good-not-great law school. Top firms are full of grads from Fordham, Hastings, George Washington, BU, etc. To be fair, you'll want to be in the top 10-20% of your class and maybe on law review from such schools to get a first-year job at top firms. In my case, the debt I racked up in my T14 meant that I had no choice but to go into "Big Law" and remain there longer than I would have preferred. I wish I had looked for scholarships and cheaper options. As others have said, the big-firm life is a grind and, in my experience, only about 10% of those in it truly enjoy their jobs.

Are you sure about Hastings ?

At least in SF, Hastings (or whatever it’s now called) is well represented in elite law firms.

It's called UC Law San Francisco and it's T82 so not hired by Big Law here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Took a full ride to a mid state u and nearly a full ride to a top 20 law school. Turned down Georgetown to start their career debt-free (and to live in a town that’s more fun.)

but when? times have changed. Law schools don't hand out merit unless they have to (to steal away a student going to a higher T school for stats or URM status)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC just started 2nd year as a NYC big law associate. Graduated from a top 5 Law School. Got a huge merit scholarship for law school coming from a state university. Debt free thanks to great grades and LSAT scores. Works in Corporate Finance. Works hard but deal closings have up and down times and better quality of life generally than litigation. Enjoys practice group and salary exceeding $250 K. Worked minimally Thanksgiving weekend.

Top 5 law schools don’t hand out huge merit scholarships. Name the school.

People always say this but they’re wrong. My kid got a Rubenstein Scholarship to UChicago Law, as did at least 10% of his class. Full ride plus $20k annual stipend

You might have bothered mentioning that the Rubenstein is only for URM low-income applicants as are most of the law merit scholarships. My kid is applying now. There is no merit at Harvard (my school), yale or stanford and those scholarships offered in the remaining T11 are almost always for URM/low income and not generous. He was told by a former Dean of a T4 that he would have to change skin color even with a 177, top grades and degrees from Oxbridge, to get merit. It is what it is. So we are planning - again - for full freight.

FWIW his white friends who got half tuition had to drop down to T40s and T60s, where, like with colleges, some law will trade scholarship monies for a top LSAT score or GPA or Rhodes bragging points

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Took a full ride to a mid state u and nearly a full ride to a top 20 law school. Turned down Georgetown to start their career debt-free (and to live in a town that’s more fun.)

but when? times have changed. Law schools don't hand out merit unless they have to (to steal away a student going to a higher T school for stats or URM status)

Top schools offer merit scholarship's to buy high test scores and top stats to boost their numbers (scores of 173 plus qualify for consideration) - it’s an amazing opportunity for those lucky enough to get them - graduating debt free is the ultimate prize.