Should my kid bail on DOJ Honors

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DOJ honors is a feather in the cap in an industry intensely focused on prestige and a great way to get actual litigation experience. He’s be an absolute fool not to take an offer. Do it for 3 years and then he can exit with great prospects to a firm. As an apprenticeship it will pay less than BigLaw; but as an actual learning opportunity and resume builder, it’s impossible to compare.

Four years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound like a great mom. I’m at DOJ currently and think he should definitely pursue the honors gig. It will look great on his resume forever and will open doors for him. Even better, it will give him the opportunity to try DOJ out and see if it’s for him.

The PP who said it’s difficult to go from a firm to DOJ is right, and if he wants to try this later, he likely will interrupt his career to do it. This is the time for him to try this out. All upside and he will not be affected by the new administration in those spots. Plus, the network he’ll establish while at DOJ will pay dividends for the rest of his career.

Yeah, I think the chances of getting an honors slot out of a firm are low. They want lawyers who really do want to be at DOJ, not careerists just trying to max out bonuses.

The chances of "getting an honors slot out of a firm" are actually zero. HP attorneys are right out of law school or clerkship. If you have worked anywhere previously, you are not an HP candidate. You would be hired as a lateral. You would not be an HP hire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, absolutely not. DOJ honors is a really great way to start a legal career. And it’s supposed to be nonpartisan. If he wants to be a do-gooder he can look for a legal aid fellowship and get paid $35k/yr.

Do you know anything about what happens at DOJ in Republican administrations?

[Anonymous]

The clerkships “rule” of not turning down an offer is unique to clerkships - that rule was in place when I clerked in the 1990s. That said, someone might remember at DOJ but it might also be understandable given current situation. I think you can turn down unless you’ve already accepted and been through a high level clearance background check. Those are really expensive and people get mad when people bail after those. Doesn’t sound like that’s what he’s applying for though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, absolutely not. DOJ honors is a really great way to start a legal career. And it’s supposed to be nonpartisan. If he wants to be a do-gooder he can look for a legal aid fellowship and get paid $35k/yr.

Do you know anything about what happens at DOJ in Republican administrations?

Is there going to be a sea change in bankruptcy, tort, IP, national security …? Sure, civil rights, but that’s a small part of DOJ.

[Anonymous]

Unless your child has poop for brains, they should get the DOJ Honors program on their resume. Sounds like your kid could be qualified for DOJ’s SO or at least appellate program, which is a step towards the most prestigious and interesting legal jobs in the country. They should already know this.

[Anonymous]

PS And yes, I was an Assisrant Director in a litigating component of DOJ thru red and blue admins.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unless your child has poop for brains, they should get the DOJ Honors program on their resume. Sounds like your kid could be qualified for DOJ’s SO or at least appellate program, which is a step towards the most prestigious and interesting legal jobs in the country. They should already know this.

+1. I wonder if OP’s kid goes to Columbia. Columbia is so focused on Wall Street that it doesn’t spend the kind of effort prepping students for clerkship and fellowships/honors like Harvard or Yale does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He hasn’t committed to DOJ honors yet? I’m a lawyer and I agree with his plan to bail. With his resume he will get a job at a small firm and he could look at non profits and state government as well, there are some great positions in those sectors.

+1. I wouldn't want the stress and uncertainty of working for this administration. He has other great options.

+1 I'm a former fed with similar credentials. DOJ is going to be destroyed this time, much worse than the first Adm. It's so sad to say this but I wouldn't recommend this path for him now. Go to a firm and apply for a job at DOJ in a few yrs. He will still have a great shot with his resume.

If this were like a Jeb Bush administration, sure! Move past the partisan differences. But the issue now is much bigger - feds are going to be treated very poorly in the hopes they leave or just straight up fired, which is easiest when they are new.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, absolutely not. DOJ honors is a really great way to start a legal career. And it’s supposed to be nonpartisan. If he wants to be a do-gooder he can look for a legal aid fellowship and get paid $35k/yr.

Do you know anything about what happens at DOJ in Republican administrations?

Is there going to be a sea change in bankruptcy, tort, IP, national security …? Sure, civil rights, but that’s a small part of DOJ.

You are wrong. Lawyers in other divisions were pressed into working on immigration cases in the Trump years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, absolutely not. DOJ honors is a really great way to start a legal career. And it’s supposed to be nonpartisan. If he wants to be a do-gooder he can look for a legal aid fellowship and get paid $35k/yr.

Do you know anything about what happens at DOJ in Republican administrations?

Is there going to be a sea change in bankruptcy, tort, IP, national security …? Sure, civil rights, but that’s a small part of DOJ.

I assure you that NSD will be impacted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, absolutely not. DOJ honors is a really great way to start a legal career. And it’s supposed to be nonpartisan. If he wants to be a do-gooder he can look for a legal aid fellowship and get paid $35k/yr.

Do you know anything about what happens at DOJ in Republican administrations?

Is there going to be a sea change in bankruptcy, tort, IP, national security …? Sure, civil rights, but that’s a small part of DOJ.

You are wrong. Lawyers in other divisions were pressed into working on immigration cases in the Trump years.

Ok well, that’s actually helping to clear the immigration backlog. That’s not terrible. Plus it’s not like Obama and Biden had stellar progressive records on immigrant detention and deportation. If you think no immigrants should be detained or deported you probably shouldn’t work for DOJ as a prosecutor or in immigration at all. I’m sure I could have gotten hired as a prosecutor but I never tried because I personally don’t want to send people to jail. This has little to do with the administration but rather working as a prosecutor whenever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, absolutely not. DOJ honors is a really great way to start a legal career. And it’s supposed to be nonpartisan. If he wants to be a do-gooder he can look for a legal aid fellowship and get paid $35k/yr.

Do you know anything about what happens at DOJ in Republican administrations?

Is there going to be a sea change in bankruptcy, tort, IP, national security …? Sure, civil rights, but that’s a small part of DOJ.

I assure you that NSD will be impacted.

Sure but substantively differently? Did Biden and Obama not go after spies, international crime, etc? Sure there are some high profile areas that are more political but lots that are not. But whatever. This kid can take the absolutely most risk averse approach and go on the grind doing doc review defending KBR or helping insurance companies merge at Biglaw instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He hasn’t committed to DOJ honors yet? I’m a lawyer and I agree with his plan to bail. With his resume he will get a job at a small firm and he could look at non profits and state government as well, there are some great positions in those sectors.

+1. I wouldn't want the stress and uncertainty of working for this administration. He has other great options.

+1 I'm a former fed with similar credentials. DOJ is going to be destroyed this time, much worse than the first Adm. It's so sad to say this but I wouldn't recommend this path for him now. Go to a firm and apply for a job at DOJ in a few yrs. He will still have a great shot with his resume.

If this were like a Jeb Bush administration, sure! Move past the partisan differences. But the issue now is much bigger - feds are going to be treated very poorly in the hopes they leave or just straight up fired, which is easiest when they are new.

No. It will not be "destroyed."

And what is this "go to a firm" stuff where you claim "he will still have a great shot with his resume." What are you on about? No one has a "great shot" at DOJ, it is one of the hardest legal jobs to get, if not the hardest, and there is a huge abount of luck and timing involved. And most are applying from "a firm."

OP, this person doesn't know what they are talking about. I'm guessing this "I'm a former fed with similar credentials" means they worked as a paralegal for a year at the Dept of Education or some such nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unless your child has poop for brains, they should get the DOJ Honors program on their resume. Sounds like your kid could be qualified for DOJ’s SO or at least appellate program, which is a step towards the most prestigious and interesting legal jobs in the country. They should already know this.

Reread OP. Their kid is looking as US Trustee or Commercial branch. I’d take high end big law or a lot boutique over those. As someone who had better credentials than OP’s kid and chose not to do honors program, I’m glad I chose big law to start.