Md. officials urge review of youth crime laws as 12-year-old's serial break-ins continue

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


Poverty and neglect have these kids so full of trauma and rage that they don't even fear death. We desperately need to build more RTCs to help them before it's too late.



Criminal behavior is not mostly attributable to neglect and poverty. It has a very strong genetic component (around 50% genetic). The vast majority of environmental interventions do not work at all or they do not work very well. Unfortunately, the most effective environmental intervention that protects law-abiding members of the general public is putting people who commit crimes in jail (even if they are minors). Right now it is car theft, but there is a an incredibly high probability a very antisocial preteen (with a criminal history) will progress to more serious violent crimes unless they are incarnated to protect the general public. Decades of research with twins and adoption studies show that genetic propensity for criminal behavior is by far the largest explanatory factor. From the research paper "Adoptive parent criminality was not found to be associated with a statistically significant increase in the son's criminality, but the effect of biological parent criminality was." The adopted boys whose biological fathers were in the top 1% of criminal behavior (3 or more criminal convictions) accounted for 30% of all criminal convictions among males in the adoptive study cohort. Having a highly criminal biological father increased their risk of criminal behavior by 30x. https://gwern.net/doc/crime/1984-mednick.pdf Unfortunately
\

Another explanation for this is the prevalence of fetal alcohol exposure in the criminal population. That's not technically genetics, in that the cycle can be broken, but it is a reality that a substantial portion of the foster care system as well as the incarcerated population was prenatally exposed, and their parents likely were as well---leading to multi-generational poor choices. The impacts of fetal alcohol exposure include a lack of impulse control, an inability to appreciate cause and effect and often aggressive and anti-social tendencies if early interventions are not in place. The biggest impact is that of dysmaturity---i.e., the young person is developmentally much younger than their chronological age. Those kids have difficulty in school and are likely to have checked out on education by middle school. Dysmaturity also means that an FASD 16 yo has the body and physical urges of an adolescent but the maturity of a 9 yo. So it is no surprise when that adolescent has a child (who is likely prenatally exposed as well) and is unable to parent that child effectively. There is way too much emphasis on "trauma" being a cause of anti-social behavior and not nearly enough about the actual brain damage that may exist from prenatal exposures.


A higher frequency of FASD among low-income mothers does not come close to explaining most of this 30X increase in the risk of criminal behavior. Genetics is a substantial portion of this 30x risk and is a much larger contributing factor than environment. If environmental factors are very important for criminal tendencies there would be a strong correlation between adoptive children and the their adoptive parents. The data does not support this because there is almost no correlation between the criminal behavior of adoptive parents and their adopted children. However, the adopted children do display a strong correlation with the criminal behavior of their biological parents. Polygenic risk scores also predict characteristics (much more accurately than random chance) between siblings who have shared environments. Yes, environmental factors matter, but interventions are largely ineffective. Genes account for 50% of criminal behavioral tendencies and everything else combined in the environment accounts for the other 50%. Prenatal factors, parenting, air pollution, lead pipes, schooling, head trauma, random development factors and everything else account for the other half. Environmental to reduce criminal do not work well or at all in most circumstances. Genes are more important because they are a continual weight on the scale that impacts the probability of someone committing a crime or participating in risky behavior at every decision point.


What are you bringing this up? We aren’t going to institute eugenics. Should a judge consider a parent’s criminal history when sentencing a defendant? No. So what is your point?


I am not saying that at all. I am bringing it up because reality is important and public policy based on inaccurate assumptions about the causes of crime have been disastrous. The truth is that rehabilitation rarely works. The most effective approach to reduce crime is long prison sentences for repeat offenders. We should have mandatory minimum sentences for repeat offenders especially if they have made multiple violent offenses. Anyone with three or more violent felony offenses committed on separate occasions should get life in jail without the possibility of parole to protect the general public.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I understand that the police are frustrated but I fail to see how charging the kid would help. A twelve year old breaking into car dealerships every night and getting caught over and over is a cry for help, for goodness sake. Getting caught seems to be the point.


The juvenile justice system doesn't charge. These acts aren't considered crimes. They are delinquent acts that "would" be crimes if committed by an adult. That's why juvenile records are sealed and don't follow kids when they become adults. The kids get referred for services. It's one of the few ways to at least try to get help for kids.

Some kids end up detained but the vast majority go home to their parents. The courts develop a treatment service plan to help habilitate or rehabilitate if needed.

The system is not very effective but at its heart, it's trying to help the offenders make better choices. It's not meant to be punitive.


It's time for a 2 strikes punitive stance this rehabilitation isn't working we need them to fear being a criminal and the parents too


Poverty and neglect have these kids so full of trauma and rage that they don't even fear death. We desperately need to build more RTCs to help them before it's too late.


As the child of immigrants from severe poverty, neglect, and trauma, I'm so tired of this BS excuse. No immigrant I know from the 3rd world behaves this way. The problem is bad parenting combined with sense of entitlement.

+1 it's the parents

I'm a child of uneducated immigrants (ES/MS level education) who don't speak any English. I grew up as a latchkey kid.

I will say, however, that kids from severely abusive homes have a higher rate of turning to crime. Perhaps CPS needs to do a better job of removing these kids from such homes.
Anonymous
6% of the population commit 60% of the crime. Poverty isn't the cause, but it may contribute to a family's inability to help provide necessary supports to some of those 6%.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:6% of the population commit 60% of the crime. Poverty isn't the cause, but it may contribute to a family's inability to help provide necessary supports to some of those 6%.


People can come from poverty, and understand that their situation sucks, and will try and get themselves out of it.

Then there are some people who come from poverty, and think the world owes them, and that they are entitled to act without regard for others. That's what's happening here - the "kids" are raised thinking they're owed, and they get that attitude from their parents.

Most people who experience poverty (including immigrants from every continent) do not go through the world with a sense of entitlement. They seek to get themselves out of poverty by... trying. Trying really incredibly hard, without harming another person. And most have experienced FAR worse neglect.

I'm fed up with people blaming "poverty" for the violent choices these "kids" make. It's not poverty--not even a little bit. It's the feelings of entitlement they get from their parents and relatives, who are deliberately teaching them that they are owed x, y, and z.

My father grew up homeless and motherless in the 3rd world. He's never stolen any non-necessity in his life. As a child I'm sure he stole food just to eat, but that's the kind of "stealing" that any human can understand.

Anonymous
Does anyone know if they caught the 11 yo carjacker?

((Sorry for the off topic post but Jeff closed my thread on this different topic and directed it here.))

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know if they caught the 11 yo carjacker?

((Sorry for the off topic post but Jeff closed my thread on this different topic and directed it here.))


This thread is about that carjacker. It appears that law enforcement knows who it is but the laws don’t let them do anything because he’s so young.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:6% of the population commit 60% of the crime. Poverty isn't the cause, but it may contribute to a family's inability to help provide necessary supports to some of those 6%.


People can come from poverty, and understand that their situation sucks, and will try and get themselves out of it.

Then there are some people who come from poverty, and think the world owes them, and that they are entitled to act without regard for others. That's what's happening here - the "kids" are raised thinking they're owed, and they get that attitude from their parents.

Most people who experience poverty (including immigrants from every continent) do not go through the world with a sense of entitlement. They seek to get themselves out of poverty by... trying. Trying really incredibly hard, without harming another person. And most have experienced FAR worse neglect.

I'm fed up with people blaming "poverty" for the violent choices these "kids" make. It's not poverty--not even a little bit. It's the feelings of entitlement they get from their parents and relatives, who are deliberately teaching them that they are owed x, y, and z.

My father grew up homeless and motherless in the 3rd world. He's never stolen any non-necessity in his life. As a child I'm sure he stole food just to eat, but that's the kind of "stealing" that any human can understand.



My personal view is that there is a percentage of people who think they are entitled/aggrieved/owed something in every class. But it manifests differently. Rich or professional class people that are this way might cheat on their taxes, embezzzle from their companies, take advantage of their employees, etc. They aren’t going to rob a CVS, but it’s the same mentality that justifies cheating to get what they want. After many decades of life, I’ve decided that policies that assume everyone is good and wants to be good are probably misguuddd, because something between 5 and 20% of people are just selfish a—holes.
But I think with kids it’s impossible to know, because all kids make bad decisions and can be selfish a-holes at times — so with kids it’s just really hard to figure out if they are capable of growth and change. I’d like to think that all kids are, but I also don’t think our juvenile justice system is well set up to get them there. I’d love to see more studies on what works and what doesn’t in juvenile justice. There’s a guy at Yale Law that was incarcerated as a teen for carjacking and he has some interesting thoughts on it, but I’m not really sure he can really say why his life changed, and that of some of his friends did not.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know if they caught the 11 yo carjacker?

((Sorry for the off topic post but Jeff closed my thread on this different topic and directed it here.))


This thread is about that carjacker. It appears that law enforcement knows who it is but the laws don’t let them do anything because he’s so young.


This kid is a car thief. I don't think he has car jacked anyone. He steals cars off dealer lots.

He got caught again last night. He's one of these three.

https://moco360.media/2024/11/19/police-charge-13-year-old-rockville-burglary/
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know if they caught the 11 yo carjacker?

((Sorry for the off topic post but Jeff closed my thread on this different topic and directed it here.))


This thread is about that carjacker. It appears that law enforcement knows who it is but the laws don’t let them do anything because he’s so young.


This kid is a car thief. I don't think he has car jacked anyone. He steals cars off dealer lots.

He got caught again last night. He's one of these three.

https://moco360.media/2024/11/19/police-charge-13-year-old-rockville-burglary/


Thought they sent him to Baltimore to stay with a different relative.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I understand that the police are frustrated but I fail to see how charging the kid would help. A twelve year old breaking into car dealerships every night and getting caught over and over is a cry for help, for goodness sake. Getting caught seems to be the point.


The juvenile justice system doesn't charge. These acts aren't considered crimes. They are delinquent acts that "would" be crimes if committed by an adult. That's why juvenile records are sealed and don't follow kids when they become adults. The kids get referred for services. It's one of the few ways to at least try to get help for kids.

Some kids end up detained but the vast majority go home to their parents. The courts develop a treatment service plan to help habilitate or rehabilitate if needed.

The system is not very effective but at its heart, it's trying to help the offenders make better choices. It's not meant to be punitive.


It's time for a 2 strikes punitive stance this rehabilitation isn't working we need them to fear being a criminal and the parents too


Poverty and neglect have these kids so full of trauma and rage that they don't even fear death. We desperately need to build more RTCs to help them before it's too late.


As the child of immigrants from severe poverty, neglect, and trauma, I'm so tired of this BS excuse. No immigrant I know from the 3rd world behaves this way. The problem is bad parenting combined with sense of entitlement.

+1 it's the parents

I'm a child of uneducated immigrants (ES/MS level education) who don't speak any English. I grew up as a latchkey kid.

I will say, however, that kids from severely abusive homes have a higher rate of turning to crime. Perhaps CPS needs to do a better job of removing these kids from such homes.


Sorry but the idea that foster homes would lead to less criminal behavior is so out of touch that I really wonder why you would even feel knowledgable enough to offer a “solution” in the first place.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know if they caught the 11 yo carjacker?

((Sorry for the off topic post but Jeff closed my thread on this different topic and directed it here.))


This thread is about that carjacker. It appears that law enforcement knows who it is but the laws don’t let them do anything because he’s so young.


This kid is a car thief. I don't think he has car jacked anyone. He steals cars off dealer lots.

He got caught again last night. He's one of these three.

https://moco360.media/2024/11/19/police-charge-13-year-old-rockville-burglary/


Thought they sent him to Baltimore to stay with a different relative.


They do, but he makes his way back here.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know if they caught the 11 yo carjacker?

((Sorry for the off topic post but Jeff closed my thread on this different topic and directed it here.))


This thread is about that carjacker. It appears that law enforcement knows who it is but the laws don’t let them do anything because he’s so young.


This kid is a car thief. I don't think he has car jacked anyone. He steals cars off dealer lots.

He got caught again last night. He's one of these three.

https://moco360.media/2024/11/19/police-charge-13-year-old-rockville-burglary/


Thought they sent him to Baltimore to stay with a different relative.


They do, but he makes his way back here.


How? He's not old enough to drive.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


Poverty and neglect have these kids so full of trauma and rage that they don't even fear death. We desperately need to build more RTCs to help them before it's too late.



Criminal behavior is not mostly attributable to neglect and poverty. It has a very strong genetic component (around 50% genetic). The vast majority of environmental interventions do not work at all or they do not work very well. Unfortunately, the most effective environmental intervention that protects law-abiding members of the general public is putting people who commit crimes in jail (even if they are minors). Right now it is car theft, but there is a an incredibly high probability a very antisocial preteen (with a criminal history) will progress to more serious violent crimes unless they are incarnated to protect the general public. Decades of research with twins and adoption studies show that genetic propensity for criminal behavior is by far the largest explanatory factor. From the research paper "Adoptive parent criminality was not found to be associated with a statistically significant increase in the son's criminality, but the effect of biological parent criminality was." The adopted boys whose biological fathers were in the top 1% of criminal behavior (3 or more criminal convictions) accounted for 30% of all criminal convictions among males in the adoptive study cohort. Having a highly criminal biological father increased their risk of criminal behavior by 30x. https://gwern.net/doc/crime/1984-mednick.pdf Unfortunately
\

Another explanation for this is the prevalence of fetal alcohol exposure in the criminal population. That's not technically genetics, in that the cycle can be broken, but it is a reality that a substantial portion of the foster care system as well as the incarcerated population was prenatally exposed, and their parents likely were as well---leading to multi-generational poor choices. The impacts of fetal alcohol exposure include a lack of impulse control, an inability to appreciate cause and effect and often aggressive and anti-social tendencies if early interventions are not in place. The biggest impact is that of dysmaturity---i.e., the young person is developmentally much younger than their chronological age. Those kids have difficulty in school and are likely to have checked out on education by middle school. Dysmaturity also means that an FASD 16 yo has the body and physical urges of an adolescent but the maturity of a 9 yo. So it is no surprise when that adolescent has a child (who is likely prenatally exposed as well) and is unable to parent that child effectively. There is way too much emphasis on "trauma" being a cause of anti-social behavior and not nearly enough about the actual brain damage that may exist from prenatal exposures.


A higher frequency of FASD among low-income mothers does not come close to explaining most of this 30X increase in the risk of criminal behavior. Genetics is a substantial portion of this 30x risk and is a much larger contributing factor than environment. If environmental factors are very important for criminal tendencies there would be a strong correlation between adoptive children and the their adoptive parents. The data does not support this because there is almost no correlation between the criminal behavior of adoptive parents and their adopted children. However, the adopted children do display a strong correlation with the criminal behavior of their biological parents. Polygenic risk scores also predict characteristics (much more accurately than random chance) between siblings who have shared environments. Yes, environmental factors matter, but interventions are largely ineffective. Genes account for 50% of criminal behavioral tendencies and everything else combined in the environment accounts for the other 50%. Prenatal factors, parenting, air pollution, lead pipes, schooling, head trauma, random development factors and everything else account for the other half. Environmental to reduce criminal do not work well or at all in most circumstances. Genes are more important because they are a continual weight on the scale that impacts the probability of someone committing a crime or participating in risky behavior at every decision point.


What are you bringing this up? We aren’t going to institute eugenics. Should a judge consider a parent’s criminal history when sentencing a defendant? No. So what is your point?


I can think of reasons to bring this up. It illustrates the problem may in some respects intractable. And while unpopular to mention and not susceptible to government control, it should not be off limits to discuss sexual responsibility.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know if they caught the 11 yo carjacker?

((Sorry for the off topic post but Jeff closed my thread on this different topic and directed it here.))


This thread is about that carjacker. It appears that law enforcement knows who it is but the laws don’t let them do anything because he’s so young.


This kid is a car thief. I don't think he has car jacked anyone. He steals cars off dealer lots.

He got caught again last night. He's one of these three.

https://moco360.media/2024/11/19/police-charge-13-year-old-rockville-burglary/


Thought they sent him to Baltimore to stay with a different relative.


They do, but he makes his way back here.


How? He's not old enough to drive.


You really can’t imagine how he gets down here from Baltimore?

Ride from a friend.
Ride from a relative.
Uber.
Train.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know if they caught the 11 yo carjacker?

((Sorry for the off topic post but Jeff closed my thread on this different topic and directed it here.))


This thread is about that carjacker. It appears that law enforcement knows who it is but the laws don’t let them do anything because he’s so young.


This kid is a car thief. I don't think he has car jacked anyone. He steals cars off dealer lots.

He got caught again last night. He's one of these three.

https://moco360.media/2024/11/19/police-charge-13-year-old-rockville-burglary/


Thought they sent him to Baltimore to stay with a different relative.

If that is true, he should be removed to state care. I thought the main issue was that he was a DC resident so that CPS could not step in. If it is true that he relocated to Baltimore and he’s still doing this, then if they are not going to throw him in jail he needs to be removed to state guardianship.
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