College RoI by major and college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know many turning down Ivies. I think parents will look for something to make themselves feel good. With 3-5% acceptance rate it’s a choice very few have the luxury of even making.

This. Everyone I know in DMV (if kid remotely has stats) puts some Ivies on the list as ultra-reach. The conversation is always— kid is going to X—unless they get into an Ivy and then we will pay.

Just look at this board and the industry of private counselors aimed at getting kids into an Ivy. It’s a Tiger Mom/Dad’s wet dream.

When they don’t succeed, cue the veiled puppeted responses putting down the schools their kids got rejected from.

This is a natural human response. It's called sour grapes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This list is mostly selective private colleges so it isn't surprising that the students who attend them are the highest paid.

For public schools, the list is:

1. Georgia Tech
2. Berkeley
3. Colorado School of Mines
4. Michigan
5. UVA
6. Cal Poly SLO

The numbers are GREATLY skewed by choice of majors. On average, engineering majors make 2X the average for a college graduate during the early part of their career, which is the period when the income data is taken. They are more likely to get high paying jobs right out of college and less likely to get advanced degrees, which can delay higher earnings. This is what drives much of the ROI math. If you simplify a hypothetical comparison to two schools College A and College B, and to two majors, ENGINEERING and EVERYTHING ELSE majors, you can see how important this is. Assuming College A and College B graduates make the same amount in each respective major, if College A had 50% Engineering and 50% Everything Else majors and College B had 100% Everything Else majors, College A graduates on average would make 50% more on average than College B graduates. If you attribute this to overall superiority of College A, it would be misleading. A graduate of College A with a degree in Everything Else should have no expectation to earn more than a graduate of College B with a degree in Everything Else. On average, they would earn the same. The graduate of College A would have to major in Engineering to have higher earnings expectations.

The reason why Georgia Tech tops this list is because it has the highest percentage of engineering majors. You should not assume that its non-engineering engineering majors earn more graduates of the other schools or that its engineering graduates earn more than the other schools. In fact, Georgia Tech graduates could earn less than the other schools in all comparable majors but still top the list because the percentage of engineering majors is so high (this is a hypothetical statement - I am not claiming this is true).

The other major factor to consider is cost of living where graduates settle. I won't go into the mathematical details here, but just consider that the cost of living in California is nearly 2X the national average and you can see how this impacts these studies.

is 10 years considered early part? it should equalize by then, no? that's why GU which has no engineering is on the list

Schools without engineering (or high pay vocation/professional specialty schools like pharmacy) must overperform in other majors. Only a few schools without engineering/specialty are on this list.

Isn't pharmacy a grad degree?

I don't know about now but it went from being a 4 year degree to a 5 year PharmD to whatever it is now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This list is mostly selective private colleges so it isn't surprising that the students who attend them are the highest paid.

For public schools, the list is:

1. Georgia Tech
2. Berkeley
3. Colorado School of Mines
4. Michigan
5. UVA
6. Cal Poly SLO

The numbers are GREATLY skewed by choice of majors. On average, engineering majors make 2X the average for a college graduate during the early part of their career, which is the period when the income data is taken. They are more likely to get high paying jobs right out of college and less likely to get advanced degrees, which can delay higher earnings. This is what drives much of the ROI math. If you simplify a hypothetical comparison to two schools College A and College B, and to two majors, ENGINEERING and EVERYTHING ELSE majors, you can see how important this is. Assuming College A and College B graduates make the same amount in each respective major, if College A had 50% Engineering and 50% Everything Else majors and College B had 100% Everything Else majors, College A graduates on average would make 50% more on average than College B graduates. If you attribute this to overall superiority of College A, it would be misleading. A graduate of College A with a degree in Everything Else should have no expectation to earn more than a graduate of College B with a degree in Everything Else. On average, they would earn the same. The graduate of College A would have to major in Engineering to have higher earnings expectations.

The reason why Georgia Tech tops this list is because it has the highest percentage of engineering majors. You should not assume that its non-engineering engineering majors earn more graduates of the other schools or that its engineering graduates earn more than the other schools. In fact, Georgia Tech graduates could earn less than the other schools in all comparable majors but still top the list because the percentage of engineering majors is so high (this is a hypothetical statement - I am not claiming this is true).

The other major factor to consider is cost of living where graduates settle. I won't go into the mathematical details here, but just consider that the cost of living in California is nearly 2X the national average and you can see how this impacts these studies.

is 10 years considered early part? it should equalize by then, no? that's why GU which has no engineering is on the list

Schools without engineering (or high pay vocation/professional specialty schools like pharmacy) must overperform in other majors. Only a few schools without engineering/specialty are on this list.

Isn't pharmacy a grad degree?

I don't know about now but it went from being a 4 year degree to a 5 year PharmD to whatever it is now.

There are bachelors degrees. The ROI surveys reflect only bachelors degrees. However, those may go on to earn Pharm.D. degrees.

[Anonymous]

Can you separate out males and females?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can you separate out males and females?

On average, female college graduates make only 79% as much as male college graduates. There could be several reasons. But, on average, a school with a higher male to female ratio can be expected to have higher "ROI".

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2023/03/01/the-enduring-grip-of-the-gender-pay-gap/#:~:text=In%202022%2C%20women%20with%20at,the%20same%20level%20of%20education.

[Anonymous]

Basically the stripped list is a definitive top 50 list if making money is important to you.

Not many surprises.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can you separate out males and females?

On average, female college graduates make only 79% as much as male college graduates. There could be several reasons.

It’s because they major in dumb useless subjects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can you separate out males and females?

On average, female college graduates make only 79% as much as male college graduates. There could be several reasons.

It’s because they major in dumb useless subjects.

Eye. Roll. I am smarter than all my male colleagues and am not in a dumb or useless subject. Looking at all my colleagues’ kids: the males are the less successful in jobs post college. Female kids are killing it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Looks like another data aggregating blog click bait deal. But I'll play:

1. CalTech
2. MIT
3. Univ. of Health Sciences and Pharmacy (St. Louis)
4. Harvey Mudd
5. Stanford
6. Harvard
7. Olin College of Engineering
8. Carnegie Mellon
9. Penn
10. West Coast Univ., Los Angeles
11. Phillips School of Nursing
12. Columbia
13. Princeton
14. Johns Hopkins
15. Duke
16. Chicago
17. Babson
18. Cornell
19. Dartmouth
20. Stevens Inst. of Tech, New Jersey
21. Georgia Tech
22. American Univ. of Health Sciences, Signal Hill, CA
23. Georgetown
24. US Merchant Marine Acad.
25. Worcester Polytech
26. Yale
27. Lehigh
28. Santa Clara
31. Chamberlain Univ. 5 states listed
34. WashUniv in St. Louis
35. Bentely Univ, Waltham, MA
36. West Coast Univ., Orange County, CA
37.Maine Maritime Academy
38. Notre Dame
39. Northwestern
40. Rensselaer Polytech, Troy, NY
41. Villanova
42. Center for Allied Health Students, Brooklyn, NY
43. Mass. Maritime Academy
44. Rose Hulman Inst. of Tech, Indiana
45. Albany College of Pharmacy, Albany, NY
46. UC Berkeley
47. Colorado School of Mines
48. West Coast Univ., Dallas, TX
49. Claremont McKenna
50. Ohlone College, Fremont, CA
51.Cal. State Maritime Academy
52. SUNY Maritime Academy
53. West Coast Univ, Ontario, CA
54. Northeastern
55. Kettering, Flint Michigan
56. Washington and Lee
57. Laboure College of Healthcare, Milton, MA
58. Capitol Tech, Laurel, MD
59. Vanderbilt
60. USC
61. Michigan
62. Boston College
63. Chamberlain Univ, Houston, TX
64. Univ. of Virginia
65. Rice
66. George Washington Univ
67. Tufts
68. Cal Poly SLO
69. Univ. of Rochester
70. Bucknell
71. Wake Forest
72. Fairfield univ
73. Brown
74. SMU
75. St. Joes College of Nursing, Syracuse

No surprises here! Kids both in T10 on this list, name-recognition ones, and they and classmates have so many opportunities at their school the résumé’s don’t compare to schools well below. The advantage is a bit embarrassing tbf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know many turning down Ivies. I think parents will look for something to make themselves feel good. With 3-5% acceptance rate it’s a choice very few have the luxury of even making.

This. Everyone I know in DMV (if kid remotely has stats) puts some Ivies on the list as ultra-reach. The conversation is always— kid is going to X—unless they get into an Ivy and then we will pay.

Just look at this board and the industry of private counselors aimed at getting kids into an Ivy. It’s a Tiger Mom/Dad’s wet dream.

When they don’t succeed, cue the veiled puppeted responses putting down the schools their kids got rejected from.

This. It's always crystal clear who was rejected when they say unnecessarily spiteful things about certain schools that have no basis in reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can you separate out males and females?

On average, female college graduates make only 79% as much as male college graduates. There could be several reasons.

It’s because they major in dumb useless subjects.

Eye. Roll. I am smarter than all my male colleagues and am not in a dumb or useless subject. Looking at all my colleagues’ kids: the males are the less successful in jobs post college. Female kids are killing it

Ok and are you underpaid? If not then that’s the reason, you majored in something sensible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can you separate out males and females?

On average, female college graduates make only 79% as much as male college graduates. There could be several reasons.

It’s because they major in dumb useless subjects.

Eye. Roll. I am smarter than all my male colleagues and am not in a dumb or useless subject. Looking at all my colleagues’ kids: the males are the less successful in jobs post college. Female kids are killing it

Ok and are you underpaid? If not then that’s the reason, you majored in something sensible.

All partners make the same in the company, per billable hour. Totals over 300k. Pretty nice.
But the kids of all indicate the males are making dumb choices not the females: communications, urban studies, that type of lamechoice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The eight Ivies have a better return on investment than many other nonprofit four-year colleges, Bloomberg reported on Friday. The elite institutions have a typical 10-year ROI of $265,500, an analysis by the outlet shows. That’s twice the return of 63 “Hidden Ivies”—other top private colleges—and almost three times the median of all other schools included in Bloomberg’s research.

To get these numbers, Bloomberg used data from Georgetown University’s Center on Education and the Workforce. Notably, it doesn’t include students who paid full price to attend school. Rather, the data encompass those who got some financial aid from their university. For that group, the average Ivy alum earns $90,500 a year, according to Bloomberg, while those who went to a Hidden Ivy earn $72,600 a year. Plus, Ivy grads paid 18 percent less than Hidden Ivy grads.

https://robbreport.com/lifestyle/finance/ivy-league-return-on-investment-1235580181/amp/

Well, of course. If you are low SES and your kid is Ivy material, go for it! But for most of us NW-dwelling DCUMs, it’s a different calculation.

Is there any evidence to support the assertion that most posters here are full pay? Thread noise would make you think that, but it seems statistically improbable.

It's definitely an expectation by commenters here. A lot of protesting an argument as a priviliged/wealthy person take with little proof or really any reason for assuming someone is wealthy. I do think the types of institutions and college concerns discussed on DCUM are by majority wealthy families. Your average family doesn't have a college list with Williams on it.

A lot of posters here are looking at state colleges and are not full pay families.

We are a full pay family and have a few friends the same as us. Full pay with kids who are artistic and hate academics. And a lot of their classmates are similar. They are in expensive schools with the worst ROI on the list. My dd is happy and thriving. So are her classmates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can you separate out males and females?

On average, female college graduates make only 79% as much as male college graduates. There could be several reasons.

It’s because they major in dumb useless subjects.

Eye. Roll. I am smarter than all my male colleagues and am not in a dumb or useless subject. Looking at all my colleagues’ kids: the males are the less successful in jobs post college. Female kids are killing it

Ok and are you underpaid? If not then that’s the reason, you majored in something sensible.

All partners make the same in the company, per billable hour. Totals over 300k. Pretty nice.
But the kids of all indicate the males are making dumb choices not the females: communications, urban studies, that type of lamechoice.

In which case either female college graduates aren’t underpaid or they aren’t as smart as you think they are.