College RoI by major and college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know many turning down Ivies. I think parents will look for something to make themselves feel good. With 3-5% acceptance rate it’s a choice very few have the luxury of even making.

This. Everyone I know in DMV (if kid remotely has stats) puts some Ivies on the list as ultra-reach. The conversation is always— kid is going to X—unless they get into an Ivy and then we will pay.

Just look at this board and the industry of private counselors aimed at getting kids into an Ivy. It’s a Tiger Mom/Dad’s wet dream.

When they don’t succeed, cue the veiled puppeted responses putting down the schools their kids got rejected from.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The eight Ivies have a better return on investment than many other nonprofit four-year colleges, Bloomberg reported on Friday. The elite institutions have a typical 10-year ROI of $265,500, an analysis by the outlet shows. That’s twice the return of 63 “Hidden Ivies”—other top private colleges—and almost three times the median of all other schools included in Bloomberg’s research.

To get these numbers, Bloomberg used data from Georgetown University’s Center on Education and the Workforce. Notably, it doesn’t include students who paid full price to attend school. Rather, the data encompass those who got some financial aid from their university. For that group, the average Ivy alum earns $90,500 a year, according to Bloomberg, while those who went to a Hidden Ivy earn $72,600 a year. Plus, Ivy grads paid 18 percent less than Hidden Ivy grads.

https://robbreport.com/lifestyle/finance/ivy-league-return-on-investment-1235580181/amp/

Well, of course. If you are low SES and your kid is Ivy material, go for it! But for most of us NW-dwelling DCUMs, it’s a different calculation.

Is there any evidence to support the assertion that most posters here are full pay? Thread noise would make you think that, but it seems statistically improbable.

It's definitely an expectation by commenters here. A lot of protesting an argument as a priviliged/wealthy person take with little proof or really any reason for assuming someone is wealthy. I do think the types of institutions and college concerns discussed on DCUM are by majority wealthy families. Your average family doesn't have a college list with Williams on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The eight Ivies have a better return on investment than many other nonprofit four-year colleges, Bloomberg reported on Friday. The elite institutions have a typical 10-year ROI of $265,500, an analysis by the outlet shows. That’s twice the return of 63 “Hidden Ivies”—other top private colleges—and almost three times the median of all other schools included in Bloomberg’s research.

This is not true though. The ROI of an Ivy depends heavily on major. The ROI of an English degree at Harvard is less than the ROI of a computer science degree from pretty much anywhere, including garbage-tier institutions.

[Anonymous]

The eight Ivies have a better return on investment than many other nonprofit four-year colleges, Bloomberg reported on Friday. The elite institutions have a typical 10-year ROI of $265,500, an analysis by the outlet shows. That’s twice the return of 63 “Hidden Ivies”—other top private colleges—and almost three times the median of all other schools included in Bloomberg’s research.

This is not true though. The ROI of an Ivy depends heavily on major. The ROI of an English degree at Harvard is less than the ROI of a computer science degree from pretty much anywhere, including garbage-tier institutions.

[Anonymous]

This list is mostly selective private colleges so it isn't surprising that the students who attend them are the highest paid.

For public schools, the list is:

1. Georgia Tech
2. Berkeley
3. Colorado School of Mines
4. Michigan
5. UVA
6. Cal Poly SLO

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This list is mostly selective private colleges so it isn't surprising that the students who attend them are the highest paid.

For public schools, the list is:

1. Georgia Tech
2. Berkeley
3. Colorado School of Mines
4. Michigan
5. UVA
6. Cal Poly SLO

The numbers are GREATLY skewed by choice of majors. On average, engineering majors make 2X the average for a college graduate during the early part of their career, which is the period when the income data is taken. They are more likely to get high paying jobs right out of college and less likely to get advanced degrees, which can delay higher earnings. This is what drives much of the ROI math. If you simplify a hypothetical comparison to two schools College A and College B, and to two majors, ENGINEERING and EVERYTHING ELSE majors, you can see how important this is. Assuming College A and College B graduates make the same amount in each respective major, if College A had 50% Engineering and 50% Everything Else majors and College B had 100% Everything Else majors, College A graduates on average would make 50% more on average than College B graduates. If you attribute this to overall superiority of College A, it would be misleading. A graduate of College A with a degree in Everything Else should have no expectation to earn more than a graduate of College B with a degree in Everything Else. On average, they would earn the same. The graduate of College A would have to major in Engineering to have higher earnings expectations.

The reason why Georgia Tech tops this list is because it has the highest percentage of engineering majors. You should not assume that its non-engineering engineering majors earn more graduates of the other schools or that its engineering graduates earn more than the other schools. In fact, Georgia Tech graduates could earn less than the other schools in all comparable majors but still top the list because the percentage of engineering majors is so high (this is a hypothetical statement - I am not claiming this is true).

The other major factor to consider is cost of living where graduates settle. I won't go into the mathematical details here, but just consider that the cost of living in California is nearly 2X the national average and you can see how this impacts these studies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Brown at 50??

And Wash Lee at 36? and no other LAC?

Harvey Mudd College is at #4.

Yes, because they are literally all STEM. STEM schools will have higher ROI, especially in first 5 years out of college.

[Anonymous]

If you really want to make money in the short term, it appears you should become a pharmacist or enter the merchant marine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This list is mostly selective private colleges so it isn't surprising that the students who attend them are the highest paid.

For public schools, the list is:

1. Georgia Tech
2. Berkeley
3. Colorado School of Mines
4. Michigan
5. UVA
6. Cal Poly SLO

To add some context, though, UVA is ranked just behind Chamberlain University, which is largely a nursing school. Majors matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Brown at 50??

And Wash Lee at 36? and no other LAC?

Harvey Mudd College is at #4.

Yes, because they are literally all STEM. STEM schools will have higher ROI, especially in first 5 years out of college.

And they’re basically TEM. There’s almost no science majors at the college, just a bunch of engineering and CS majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This list is mostly selective private colleges so it isn't surprising that the students who attend them are the highest paid.

For public schools, the list is:

1. Georgia Tech
2. Berkeley
3. Colorado School of Mines
4. Michigan
5. UVA
6. Cal Poly SLO

The numbers are GREATLY skewed by choice of majors. On average, engineering majors make 2X the average for a college graduate during the early part of their career, which is the period when the income data is taken. They are more likely to get high paying jobs right out of college and less likely to get advanced degrees, which can delay higher earnings. This is what drives much of the ROI math. If you simplify a hypothetical comparison to two schools College A and College B, and to two majors, ENGINEERING and EVERYTHING ELSE majors, you can see how important this is. Assuming College A and College B graduates make the same amount in each respective major, if College A had 50% Engineering and 50% Everything Else majors and College B had 100% Everything Else majors, College A graduates on average would make 50% more on average than College B graduates. If you attribute this to overall superiority of College A, it would be misleading. A graduate of College A with a degree in Everything Else should have no expectation to earn more than a graduate of College B with a degree in Everything Else. On average, they would earn the same. The graduate of College A would have to major in Engineering to have higher earnings expectations.

The reason why Georgia Tech tops this list is because it has the highest percentage of engineering majors. You should not assume that its non-engineering engineering majors earn more graduates of the other schools or that its engineering graduates earn more than the other schools. In fact, Georgia Tech graduates could earn less than the other schools in all comparable majors but still top the list because the percentage of engineering majors is so high (this is a hypothetical statement - I am not claiming this is true).

The other major factor to consider is cost of living where graduates settle. I won't go into the mathematical details here, but just consider that the cost of living in California is nearly 2X the national average and you can see how this impacts these studies.

is 10 years considered early part? it should equalize by then, no? that's why GU which has no engineering is on the list

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This list is mostly selective private colleges so it isn't surprising that the students who attend them are the highest paid.

For public schools, the list is:

1. Georgia Tech
2. Berkeley
3. Colorado School of Mines
4. Michigan
5. UVA
6. Cal Poly SLO

The numbers are GREATLY skewed by choice of majors. On average, engineering majors make 2X the average for a college graduate during the early part of their career, which is the period when the income data is taken. They are more likely to get high paying jobs right out of college and less likely to get advanced degrees, which can delay higher earnings. This is what drives much of the ROI math. If you simplify a hypothetical comparison to two schools College A and College B, and to two majors, ENGINEERING and EVERYTHING ELSE majors, you can see how important this is. Assuming College A and College B graduates make the same amount in each respective major, if College A had 50% Engineering and 50% Everything Else majors and College B had 100% Everything Else majors, College A graduates on average would make 50% more on average than College B graduates. If you attribute this to overall superiority of College A, it would be misleading. A graduate of College A with a degree in Everything Else should have no expectation to earn more than a graduate of College B with a degree in Everything Else. On average, they would earn the same. The graduate of College A would have to major in Engineering to have higher earnings expectations.

The reason why Georgia Tech tops this list is because it has the highest percentage of engineering majors. You should not assume that its non-engineering engineering majors earn more graduates of the other schools or that its engineering graduates earn more than the other schools. In fact, Georgia Tech graduates could earn less than the other schools in all comparable majors but still top the list because the percentage of engineering majors is so high (this is a hypothetical statement - I am not claiming this is true).

The other major factor to consider is cost of living where graduates settle. I won't go into the mathematical details here, but just consider that the cost of living in California is nearly 2X the national average and you can see how this impacts these studies.

is 10 years considered early part? it should equalize by then, no? that's why GU which has no engineering is on the list

There was a value add study a few years ago where they controlled for earnings based on mix of majors (e.g. schools with lots of engineering grads are expected to earn more). Georgetown was top rated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This list is mostly selective private colleges so it isn't surprising that the students who attend them are the highest paid.

For public schools, the list is:

1. Georgia Tech
2. Berkeley
3. Colorado School of Mines
4. Michigan
5. UVA
6. Cal Poly SLO

The numbers are GREATLY skewed by choice of majors. On average, engineering majors make 2X the average for a college graduate during the early part of their career, which is the period when the income data is taken. They are more likely to get high paying jobs right out of college and less likely to get advanced degrees, which can delay higher earnings. This is what drives much of the ROI math. If you simplify a hypothetical comparison to two schools College A and College B, and to two majors, ENGINEERING and EVERYTHING ELSE majors, you can see how important this is. Assuming College A and College B graduates make the same amount in each respective major, if College A had 50% Engineering and 50% Everything Else majors and College B had 100% Everything Else majors, College A graduates on average would make 50% more on average than College B graduates. If you attribute this to overall superiority of College A, it would be misleading. A graduate of College A with a degree in Everything Else should have no expectation to earn more than a graduate of College B with a degree in Everything Else. On average, they would earn the same. The graduate of College A would have to major in Engineering to have higher earnings expectations.

The reason why Georgia Tech tops this list is because it has the highest percentage of engineering majors. You should not assume that its non-engineering engineering majors earn more graduates of the other schools or that its engineering graduates earn more than the other schools. In fact, Georgia Tech graduates could earn less than the other schools in all comparable majors but still top the list because the percentage of engineering majors is so high (this is a hypothetical statement - I am not claiming this is true).

The other major factor to consider is cost of living where graduates settle. I won't go into the mathematical details here, but just consider that the cost of living in California is nearly 2X the national average and you can see how this impacts these studies.

is 10 years considered early part? it should equalize by then, no? that's why GU which has no engineering is on the list

Schools without engineering (or high pay vocation/professional specialty schools like pharmacy) must overperform in other majors. Only a few schools without engineering/specialty are on this list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This list is mostly selective private colleges so it isn't surprising that the students who attend them are the highest paid.

For public schools, the list is:

1. Georgia Tech
2. Berkeley
3. Colorado School of Mines
4. Michigan
5. UVA
6. Cal Poly SLO

The numbers are GREATLY skewed by choice of majors. On average, engineering majors make 2X the average for a college graduate during the early part of their career, which is the period when the income data is taken. They are more likely to get high paying jobs right out of college and less likely to get advanced degrees, which can delay higher earnings. This is what drives much of the ROI math. If you simplify a hypothetical comparison to two schools College A and College B, and to two majors, ENGINEERING and EVERYTHING ELSE majors, you can see how important this is. Assuming College A and College B graduates make the same amount in each respective major, if College A had 50% Engineering and 50% Everything Else majors and College B had 100% Everything Else majors, College A graduates on average would make 50% more on average than College B graduates. If you attribute this to overall superiority of College A, it would be misleading. A graduate of College A with a degree in Everything Else should have no expectation to earn more than a graduate of College B with a degree in Everything Else. On average, they would earn the same. The graduate of College A would have to major in Engineering to have higher earnings expectations.

The reason why Georgia Tech tops this list is because it has the highest percentage of engineering majors. You should not assume that its non-engineering engineering majors earn more graduates of the other schools or that its engineering graduates earn more than the other schools. In fact, Georgia Tech graduates could earn less than the other schools in all comparable majors but still top the list because the percentage of engineering majors is so high (this is a hypothetical statement - I am not claiming this is true).

The other major factor to consider is cost of living where graduates settle. I won't go into the mathematical details here, but just consider that the cost of living in California is nearly 2X the national average and you can see how this impacts these studies.

is 10 years considered early part? it should equalize by then, no? that's why GU which has no engineering is on the list

Schools without engineering (or high pay vocation/professional specialty schools like pharmacy) must overperform in other majors. Only a few schools without engineering/specialty are on this list.

Isn't pharmacy a grad degree?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This list is mostly selective private colleges so it isn't surprising that the students who attend them are the highest paid.

For public schools, the list is:

1. Georgia Tech
2. Berkeley
3. Colorado School of Mines
4. Michigan
5. UVA
6. Cal Poly SLO

The numbers are GREATLY skewed by choice of majors. On average, engineering majors make 2X the average for a college graduate during the early part of their career, which is the period when the income data is taken. They are more likely to get high paying jobs right out of college and less likely to get advanced degrees, which can delay higher earnings. This is what drives much of the ROI math. If you simplify a hypothetical comparison to two schools College A and College B, and to two majors, ENGINEERING and EVERYTHING ELSE majors, you can see how important this is. Assuming College A and College B graduates make the same amount in each respective major, if College A had 50% Engineering and 50% Everything Else majors and College B had 100% Everything Else majors, College A graduates on average would make 50% more on average than College B graduates. If you attribute this to overall superiority of College A, it would be misleading. A graduate of College A with a degree in Everything Else should have no expectation to earn more than a graduate of College B with a degree in Everything Else. On average, they would earn the same. The graduate of College A would have to major in Engineering to have higher earnings expectations.

The reason why Georgia Tech tops this list is because it has the highest percentage of engineering majors. You should not assume that its non-engineering engineering majors earn more graduates of the other schools or that its engineering graduates earn more than the other schools. In fact, Georgia Tech graduates could earn less than the other schools in all comparable majors but still top the list because the percentage of engineering majors is so high (this is a hypothetical statement - I am not claiming this is true).

The other major factor to consider is cost of living where graduates settle. I won't go into the mathematical details here, but just consider that the cost of living in California is nearly 2X the national average and you can see how this impacts these studies.

is 10 years considered early part? it should equalize by then, no? that's why GU which has no engineering is on the list

Schools without engineering (or high pay vocation/professional specialty schools like pharmacy) must overperform in other majors. Only a few schools without engineering/specialty are on this list.

Isn't pharmacy a grad degree?

There are both undergrad and grad degrees. I cited it because the top 3 earners for bachelors degrees in the ROI rankings from the Center on Education and the Workforce have pharmacy bachelors degrees (along with other health bachelors degrees).

1 University of Health Sciences and Pharmacy in St. Louis
2 Albany College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences NY
3 MCPHS University MA
4 California Institute of Technology CA
5 Massachusetts Institute of Technology MA
6 Harvey Mudd College CA