JK Rowling's gender policing finally caught up to her

[Anonymous]

Question for those defending Rowling:

If an athlete with XX chromosomes produces much higher levels of testosterone than the average female (say, 2-3x higher) do you believe they should be allowed to participate in "women's" events in the Olympics or NCAA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Question for those defending Rowling:

If an athlete with XX chromosomes produces much higher levels of testosterone than the average female (say, 2-3x higher) do you believe they should be allowed to participate in "women's" events in the Olympics or NCAA?

I do. You can’t test for everything. Like Lance Armstrong superhuman lungs. Or whatever it is that gave Michael Phelps the advantage.

We have to have a way to separate male from female. Karyotyping is the only way. After that, anything goes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm no expert, so huge grains of salt. But here is my impression from casual observation:

I think Rowling was poorly treated by men (or at least a man) and, for that reason, has strong feelings about women's need to be protected from men. This led to heartfelt feelings about having biological males in female spaces.

(I take no real position on the right way to resolve those questions - I think they can be challenging & people of good faith can disagree; and I think that people of bad faith can use these questions as pretexts for bigotry).

In any event, Rowling expressed these feelings, possibly poorly and definitely in a way that caused offense. That said, the initial writings I saw from Rowling on this subject were not strident and, likely due to her prominence, trans-advocates came at her hard. At this point, Rowling doubled down and became more strident.

She reminds me of centrists who get attacked by the online left for having feet of clay; only to find a warm embrace from the right. Suddenly they're fascists, not so much because they like the racism and the genocide but because they like being popular.

I agreed up until your last paragraph.

She was subjected to incredible vitriol and hate (including numerous death threats) from the left for her initial "non-strident" positions.

This understandably radicalized her.

Not because she "wanted to be popular". Because she was ostracized and threatened for expressing fairly tame opinions.

The left's hate and oppression made her a terrorist, so to speak.

It will be nice when she's no longer a child and can responsibility for her own actions.

[Anonymous]

^^can take responsibility

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A laboratory test seems like the easiest way to put this to rest.

If there are any “Y” chromosomes detected, the boxer is male. If not, the boxer is female. This is a binary outcome. One or the other. And then we’ll know the answer.


I trust science.

That's .... not how science works. It can tell you whether a Y chromosome is present. That doesn't tell you that a person without a penis and who has been a female all her life is suddenly a man for purposes of international boxing competitions.

International Boxing Association's president had previously said a test had shown she had XY chromosomes and therefore did not meet their eligibility criteria.

And he refused to say what the test was, and then changed his story under questioning, and he represents a corrupt organization tied to Russia. So not exactly something any reasonable person would rely on.

Well hopefully the court case requires the boxer to take a test. That should clear things up.

Whether you like the international boxing association president or not, the boxer failed the test last year.

Link to the test results?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A laboratory test seems like the easiest way to put this to rest.

If there are any “Y” chromosomes detected, the boxer is male. If not, the boxer is female. This is a binary outcome. One or the other. And then we’ll know the answer.


I trust science.

According to science, it is possible for females to have Y chromosomes. It is not binary.

Are you a scientist? Because you are misreading this. It is binary. The only time it isn’t is when there is a mutation.

So people with mutations can’t be athletes?

That’s not what I’m saying. I’m merely telling PP that they’re wrong. Sex is 100% binary. There is either male or female. Genetic mutations don’t make sex “non binary.”

XO chromosomes with penis - male or female?
XO chromosomes with vagina - male or female?
XXY chromosomes with penis - male or female?
XXY chromosomes with vagina - male or female?
XY chromosomes but with no penis and a female womb - male or female?
XY chromosomes with interior testicles - male or female?
XX chromosomes with vagina but no womb - male or female?
XX chromosomes with both ovarian and testicular tissue - male or female?

You said its binary, so you should easily be able to tell me the sex in each case that holds for every person born with each profile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A laboratory test seems like the easiest way to put this to rest.

If there are any “Y” chromosomes detected, the boxer is male. If not, the boxer is female. This is a binary outcome. One or the other. And then we’ll know the answer.


I trust science.

According to science, it is possible for females to have Y chromosomes. It is not binary.

In these cases, there is a genetic mess up. Any female with a Y chromosome has a syndrome. Things went wrong during development and something went wrong with their chromosomes. There are no “normal” females with a Y chromosome. These people are in a class by themselves.

In order words, it's not binary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A laboratory test seems like the easiest way to put this to rest.

If there are any “Y” chromosomes detected, the boxer is male. If not, the boxer is female. This is a binary outcome. One or the other. And then we’ll know the answer.


I trust science.

That's .... not how science works. It can tell you whether a Y chromosome is present. That doesn't tell you that a person without a penis and who has been a female all her life is suddenly a man for purposes of international boxing competitions.

International Boxing Association's president had previously said a test had shown she had XY chromosomes and therefore did not meet their eligibility criteria.

I don't know what the individual from IBA said, whether it was binding on that organization, and whether it's relevant to the Olympics. But regardless of all of that, it's still got f**k all to do with science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Question for those defending Rowling:

If an athlete with XX chromosomes produces much higher levels of testosterone than the average female (say, 2-3x higher) do you believe they should be allowed to participate in "women's" events in the Olympics or NCAA?

Should Michael Phelps be able to participate in events against people where his lung capacity is double that of others and he produces half the lactic acid? Sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A laboratory test seems like the easiest way to put this to rest.

If there are any “Y” chromosomes detected, the boxer is male. If not, the boxer is female. This is a binary outcome. One or the other. And then we’ll know the answer.


I trust science.

According to science, it is possible for females to have Y chromosomes. It is not binary.

Are you a scientist? Because you are misreading this. It is binary. The only time it isn’t is when there is a mutation.

It's binary, except when it's not binary. So it's not actually binary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not an expert in French law. But I find it baffling how France can pursue charges against the 8 billion people who don't live in France simply for voicing an opinion. If the entire planet is liable for their thoughts, the rational response would be for all tech companies and platforms to isolate France and ensure that the French cannot use the internet. It doesn't work if Jacques in Paris can sue any rando in a different country for suggesting that maybe it's not fair for a person with unusual genes to beat the crap out of women for sport. And why pursue JK Rowling and not Susan in Des Moines who expressed a similar opinion? Are the French aware of what the rest of the planet said about their opening ceremony? Is everyone now liable for expressing a thought that differs from the prevailing opinions in Lyon? It makes no sense.

Even if "France" shouldn't be able to pursue someone for "voicing an opinion," I think Khelif should be able to pursue Musk and Rowling in France if they acted in a way that injured her in France.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not an expert in French law. But I find it baffling how France can pursue charges against the 8 billion people who don't live in France simply for voicing an opinion. If the entire planet is liable for their thoughts, the rational response would be for all tech companies and platforms to isolate France and ensure that the French cannot use the internet. It doesn't work if Jacques in Paris can sue any rando in a different country for suggesting that maybe it's not fair for a person with unusual genes to beat the crap out of women for sport. And why pursue JK Rowling and not Susan in Des Moines who expressed a similar opinion? Are the French aware of what the rest of the planet said about their opening ceremony? Is everyone now liable for expressing a thought that differs from the prevailing opinions in Lyon? It makes no sense.

Even if "France" shouldn't be able to pursue someone for "voicing an opinion," I think Khelif should be able to pursue Musk and Rowling in France if they acted in a way that injured her in France.

Seems she should take it up with the Russian agency that claimed she isn’t a woman. Musk and Rowling are merely repeating public findings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A laboratory test seems like the easiest way to put this to rest.

If there are any “Y” chromosomes detected, the boxer is male. If not, the boxer is female. This is a binary outcome. One or the other. And then we’ll know the answer.


I trust science.

According to science, it is possible for females to have Y chromosomes. It is not binary.

In these cases, there is a genetic mess up. Any female with a Y chromosome has a syndrome. Things went wrong during development and something went wrong with their chromosomes. There are no “normal” females with a Y chromosome. These people are in a class by themselves.

In order words, it's not binary.

Incorrect. The genetic mess ups don’t make it non binary. They are literal errors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A laboratory test seems like the easiest way to put this to rest.

If there are any “Y” chromosomes detected, the boxer is male. If not, the boxer is female. This is a binary outcome. One or the other. And then we’ll know the answer.


I trust science.

According to science, it is possible for females to have Y chromosomes. It is not binary.

Are you a scientist? Because you are misreading this. It is binary. The only time it isn’t is when there is a mutation.

It's binary, except when it's not binary. So it's not actually binary.

Precisely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A laboratory test seems like the easiest way to put this to rest.

If there are any “Y” chromosomes detected, the boxer is male. If not, the boxer is female. This is a binary outcome. One or the other. And then we’ll know the answer.


I trust science.

According to science, it is possible for females to have Y chromosomes. It is not binary.

Are you a scientist? Because you are misreading this. It is binary. The only time it isn’t is when there is a mutation.

It's binary, except when it's not binary. So it's not actually binary.

You can keep saying this, but that doesn’t make it true. It is binary. There are only two options. An error in transcription or translation is just that - an error.