White folks, is Tim Walz a "unicorn"? (non-political)

[Anonymous]

OP. Where you in the military, particularly as an enlisted man? Tim Walz is very typical of men you encounter in the military including the reserves. They are very decent people who become the community helpers: fire fighters, teachers, local cops, state police, paramedics.

When George Stephanopoulos used to read the names of the war dead during the height of the Afghan war, the age groups were often divided between the 21 year old recruits who were in the regular military and the 45 year old reservists who were deployed for a tour. It was noted that many of the older men were the good guys -- the cop who coached little league; the teacher who ran Boys and Girls Clubs. There are many Tim Walzes in the world, but few in this area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Growing up a white man in the south is really hard I think because white men in the south, culturally, have never really been on the right side of anything. The best thing they have going is a thin veneer of chivalry in certain circumstances.

Back in the day there was some sort of gentleman’s code at a large southern school I will not name, which was basically a pledge not to be rapey or treat girls like crap. I always thought it was interesting that men needed to peer pressure one another into some sort of public oath to treat women with respect.

As a white woman who grew up in the religious south in the 90s/early 2000s I was supposed to swoon over the fact these were such upstanding guys for pleading to not assault me and my friends. Sadly there were some girls who really believed this was some sort of sign of chivalry.

I always felt like ummm thanks for that.

White men in the south really didn’t have a lot of strong role models. Even just outside of a midsize city sexist and racist jokes/comments were not unheard of, even from friends’ parents! The boys I went to HS had rebel flags on their trucks because #historynothate or whatever. It was such a weird thing to grow up around. No wonder they are so lost and clinging to the cult of MAGA as the rest of the country evolves and leaves them behind.

[Anonymous]

Unpopular opinion on DCUM, but I think that white men are not more problematic than any other group of men. And that doesn't mean that I'm ignoring or denying their negatives, but rather that the list of stereotypical negatives of black men or latino men or SE asian men or native american men or pretty much any other group is just as long.

So if your average white guy is a family man, worker and a member of society at least on the level of national average, but the popular discourse leans toward 'is a decent white guy a unicorn?', then I quite understand their alleged confusion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know a lot of men like Walz (as described by the OP). He is not a unicorn. Too many biased people in this world. You all need to get out more.

You know, lots of men that publicly support LGBT people?

DP. I mean, yes? Of course, lots/most men do, at least generally.

No they don’t. They don’t go to the pride parade, they don’t fly a flag, they don’t vote for their rights, they don’t lead a club.

They just try really hard not to say f$&&)ot or gay in front of their gay niece/nephew.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White woman here but I think this post is really insightful. I've long felt white men as a group (and sometimes individually) are struggling with identity. I also feel this way about white women!

I think one interesting thing about Walz is that he has embraced certain classic aspects of masculinity (football coach, military background, his general vibe) while also being an empathetic and clearly caring person (teacher, champion of children's issues, generally warm person). These things shouldn't be in opposition to each other but many men seem to struggle with it and fear appearing "soft." It's basically the whole issue of toxic masculinity and Walz doesn't seem to have struggled with it. He embraces "soft power" and leading with kindness and warmth.

As this poster suggests, when the focus of your life isn’t yourself, but rather serving other people, a lot of the “struggle” people seem to have with identity, purpose, etc., seem to evaporate.

Everybody is so focused on “getting ahead” that we rarely talk about leading a life of service in our country anymore outside of military service, ESPECIALLY for men. Women are expected to basically serve other people, sometimes to such an extreme that we lose ourselves in the process. There needs to be balance. Our leaders also de-emphasize service as in choosing service as the purpose of your life.

+1 over on the politics board there are people denigrating Walz for not being rich because he spent his life in service of others. As if not using your government position to get rich is something to look down on or be suspicious of.

There are a lot of men like him quietly going about their lives. My dad was one -- also from MN and I think he'd be so happy to see the Walz getting the spotlight. My DH is one too and we met doing volunteer work. So are many friends' husbands. And my son and nephews. One of my nephews in particular said that he learned how to be a man from my dad. He was the same kind of classic midwestern dad.

So Walz didn't "volunteer" for those things. He did them for pay. Low pay. This was not because he gave up some great, lucrative opportunities, nor opportunities to change the world. He did because that's what he was qualified for. Do not kid yourself. Our country provides amazing opportunities for both men and women to make a living by serving in the armed forces, including part-time. Many thousands of people do it. He did it because he was school teacher with a family to support, which he was barely doing, evidently.

[Anonymous]

I think that male identity issues are connected more to changes in the economy.

The loss (or non-creation) of decent-paying jobs that don't require more than a high-school education is a big factor.

Men can't support families very well on low incomes. So they become less relevant.

I think the OP's suppositions about white men trace back to class issues.

[Anonymous]

I think he is just a good person who has focused his career on helping others advance as a teacher, coach, national guard sergeant, congressman then Governor. He has limited net worth so money has never been his goal. His policies are too progressive for me but when it comes down to character, he’s special.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know a lot of men like Walz (as described by the OP). He is not a unicorn. Too many biased people in this world. You all need to get out more.

You know, lots of men that publicly support LGBT people?

DP. I mean, yes? Of course, lots/most men do, at least generally.

No they don’t. They don’t go to the pride parade, they don’t fly a flag, they don’t vote for their rights, they don’t lead a club.

They just try really hard not to say f$&&)ot or gay in front of their gay niece/nephew.

And don't you want to ask yourself why Walz does? I think in fact that man does struggle with identity, and I wonder if the troll who started this thread was getting at that to begin with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White woman here but I think this post is really insightful. I've long felt white men as a group (and sometimes individually) are struggling with identity. I also feel this way about white women!

I think one interesting thing about Walz is that he has embraced certain classic aspects of masculinity (football coach, military background, his general vibe) while also being an empathetic and clearly caring person (teacher, champion of children's issues, generally warm person). These things shouldn't be in opposition to each other but many men seem to struggle with it and fear appearing "soft." It's basically the whole issue of toxic masculinity and Walz doesn't seem to have struggled with it. He embraces "soft power" and leading with kindness and warmth.

As this poster suggests, when the focus of your life isn’t yourself, but rather serving other people, a lot of the “struggle” people seem to have with identity, purpose, etc., seem to evaporate.

Everybody is so focused on “getting ahead” that we rarely talk about leading a life of service in our country anymore outside of military service, ESPECIALLY for men. Women are expected to basically serve other people, sometimes to such an extreme that we lose ourselves in the process. There needs to be balance. Our leaders also de-emphasize service as in choosing service as the purpose of your life.

+1 over on the politics board there are people denigrating Walz for not being rich because he spent his life in service of others. As if not using your government position to get rich is something to look down on or be suspicious of.

There are a lot of men like him quietly going about their lives. My dad was one -- also from MN and I think he'd be so happy to see the Walz getting the spotlight. My DH is one too and we met doing volunteer work. So are many friends' husbands. And my son and nephews. One of my nephews in particular said that he learned how to be a man from my dad. He was the same kind of classic midwestern dad.

So Walz didn't "volunteer" for those things. He did them for pay. Low pay. This was not because he gave up some great, lucrative opportunities, nor opportunities to change the world. He did because that's what he was qualified for. Do not kid yourself. Our country provides amazing opportunities for both men and women to make a living by serving in the armed forces, including part-time. Many thousands of people do it. He did it because he was school teacher with a family to support, which he was barely doing, evidently.

You’re an idiot.

Tim Walz joined the national guard when he was 17 years old, on his birthday when he first became eligible. He was living with his parents on the family farm and had no family to support, it was about serving his country like his Korean War veteran father did. This is how a great many Americans serve - as part of an often multi generational commitment to service to the country and their communities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unpopular opinion on DCUM, but I think that white men are not more problematic than any other group of men. And that doesn't mean that I'm ignoring or denying their negatives, but rather that the list of stereotypical negatives of black men or latino men or SE asian men or native american men or pretty much any other group is just as long.

So if your average white guy is a family man, worker and a member of society at least on the level of national average, but the popular discourse leans toward 'is a decent white guy a unicorn?', then I quite understand their alleged confusion.

You might be right they’re not more problematic than any other men generally . They’re just more powerful than other groups of men so the damage they can leverage is higher and on a bigger scale.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know a lot of men like Walz (as described by the OP). He is not a unicorn. Too many biased people in this world. You all need to get out more.

You know, lots of men that publicly support LGBT people?

DP. I mean, yes? Of course, lots/most men do, at least generally.

No they don’t. They don’t go to the pride parade, they don’t fly a flag, they don’t vote for their rights, they don’t lead a club.

They just try really hard not to say f$&&)ot or gay in front of their gay niece/nephew.

And don't you want to ask yourself why Walz does? I think in fact that man does struggle with identity, and I wonder if the troll who started this thread was getting at that to begin with.

You just have the courage to come out and say what you mean. You think walz must be secretly gay because you cannot believe he would such an ally otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know a lot of men like Walz (as described by the OP). He is not a unicorn. Too many biased people in this world. You all need to get out more.

You know, lots of men that publicly support LGBT people?

DP. I mean, yes? Of course, lots/most men do, at least generally.

No they don’t. They don’t go to the pride parade, they don’t fly a flag, they don’t vote for their rights, they don’t lead a club.

They just try really hard not to say f$&&)ot or gay in front of their gay niece/nephew.

And don't you want to ask yourself why Walz does? I think in fact that man does struggle with identity, and I wonder if the troll who started this thread was getting at that to begin with.

Such BS! Many straight white men are allies to gay people. They work with them, are related to them , friends with them. My 47 year old straight white male colleague started a gay-straight alliance when he was in high school because he had gay friends. He took a stand to support them. Most people don't make a public show of it but they care about the issue as a matter of principle and because they believe in equality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tim Walz is actually what many white men his age could be had they not been radicalized by Fox News. I’m serious.

Honestly? This is pretty accurate. A large part of whiteness is not being self-aware of our own identity markers. We're just "white". Add maleness to that, with maleness being the default standard of basically everything but women's menstrual and reproductive items, and there's not a whole lot of self-evaluation required/expected.

So it does start to seem a little magical when a white dude understands and accepts that he is, in fact, a white male, and what that means in a larger cultural context, because according to the culture at large, he didn't have to.

The bar is on the ground, and Walz clears it. It's not actually magic, and shouldn't be treated as such, but comparatively...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know a lot of men like Walz (as described by the OP). He is not a unicorn. Too many biased people in this world. You all need to get out more.

You know, lots of men that publicly support LGBT people?

DP. I mean, yes? Of course, lots/most men do, at least generally.

No they don’t. They don’t go to the pride parade, they don’t fly a flag, they don’t vote for their rights, they don’t lead a club.

They just try really hard not to say f$&&)ot or gay in front of their gay niece/nephew.

And don't you want to ask yourself why Walz does? I think in fact that man does struggle with identity, and I wonder if the troll who started this thread was getting at that to begin with.

Such BS! Many straight white men are allies to gay people. They work with them, are related to them , friends with them. My 47 year old straight white male colleague started a gay-straight alliance when he was in high school because he had gay friends. He took a stand to support them. Most people don't make a public show of it but they care about the issue as a matter of principle and because they believe in equality.

All true. Especially the bolded.

[Anonymous]

Back when Tim was working as a high school teacher in Minnesota, he was the school’s faculty advisor for the student LGTBQIA+ club.