Advice from Ivy Coach re not listing sports on college application

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Team "this is mediocre advice" at least to the extent it's presented categorically and without exception.

My hookless DS did three varsity sports all four years and was far from a recruited athlete. He did so because they were fun and he liked being part of the team. He also did other ECs of varying importance. I think DS listed his three sport ECs in the #3-#8 range of common app, which he generally ranked in order of importance. He also listed a paid-coaching job he had as a separate EC, even though it overlapped with one of his varsity sports. Granted, it's a sample size of one, but DS got into Dartmouth (the school mentioned in OP's article) RD and other selective colleges.

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My friend's daughter who is at Dartmouth did not do any sports. She also got into Duke and Cornell. Your son likes sports and enjoyed it and that probably reflected in his essays. He must have also been a great student. I think the point is there is no need to do a sport if the kid does not want to, just for college applications. It is better to spend time doing other things that the kid is interested in and enjoys. My son spent a lot of time playing chess when he was in high school and it did not really help him particularly in college admissions. However, he seems to be getting a lot of interviews from hedgefunds and tech firms because of his rating on his resume and has been an intern at a couple for the last two summers. Sometimes things work out differently than planned but loving something you do does seem to help. A kid should do what they enjoy doing and not do things only for college admissions.

PP here. I agree. Lest anyone be confused, my central advice is for applicants to be authentic. Kids participate in high school sports because they want to, not because they believe it provides an edge in college admissions. But if a kid participated in high school sports and they were important to that kid, it's borderline inauthentic to omit them in favor of spikey/academic ECs, as seemingly recommended by ivycoach.com.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Team "this is mediocre advice" at least to the extent it's presented categorically and without exception.

My hookless DS did three varsity sports all four years and was far from a recruited athlete. He did so because they were fun and he liked being part of the team. He also did other ECs of varying importance. I think DS listed his three sport ECs in the #3-#8 range of common app, which he generally ranked in order of importance. He also listed a paid-coaching job he had as a separate EC, even though it overlapped with one of his varsity sports. Granted, it's a sample size of one, but DS got into Dartmouth (the school mentioned in OP's article) RD and other selective colleges.

.

My friend's daughter who is at Dartmouth did not do any sports. She also got into Duke and Cornell. Your son likes sports and enjoyed it and that probably reflected in his essays. He must have also been a great student. I think the point is there is no need to do a sport if the kid does not want to, just for college applications. It is better to spend time doing other things that the kid is interested in and enjoys. My son spent a lot of time playing chess when he was in high school and it did not really help him particularly in college admissions. However, he seems to be getting a lot of interviews from hedgefunds and tech firms because of his rating on his resume and has been an intern at a couple for the last two summers. Sometimes things work out differently than planned but loving something you do does seem to help. A kid should do what they enjoy doing and not do things only for college admissions.

PP here. I agree. Lest anyone be confused, my central advice is for applicants to be authentic. Kids participate in high school sports because they want to, not because they believe it provides an edge in college admissions. But if a kid participated in high school sports and they were important to that kid, it's borderline inauthentic to omit them in favor of spikey/academic ECs, as seemingly recommended by ivycoach.com.

Edit: "Kids should participate in high school sports because they want to, not because they believe it provides an edge in college admissions."

[Anonymous]

They want both spiky and well-rounded kids. Make sure everything flows, regardless of what it is. Keep/highlight the sports, but I think you need more than sports tbh.

For your kid’s narrative, pick a lane and stick with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The better thing is to have your kid volunteer teaching their sport to xyz under resourced group and form a summer clinic /camp/business for their sport where they show initiative and other skills.

The sports stuff is sadly a dime a dozen. Make your kid stand out.

This is not the point of doing a sport.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read the post. The idea that elite schools are not looking for well-rounded applicants goes against everything I’ve observed in the admissions process this year. Our kid’s HS has kids (often multiple) going to 15-20 of the top 25 schools, and virtually all of them are well-rounded, including sports (not recruited).

I’m not sure who this advice is for—maybe private school parents looking for some sort of advantage in a hyper-competitive environment?—but at our public, at least, it doesn’t align with reality.

Doesn't align with reality at our non-sporty private school either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The better thing is to have your kid volunteer teaching their sport to xyz under resourced group and form a summer clinic /camp/business for their sport where they show initiative and other skills.

The sports stuff is sadly a dime a dozen. Make your kid stand out.

This is not the point of doing a sport.

Thank you for saying that. The adult world comes fast where less time for “extracurriculars,” so let kids do what they enjoy while young- whether a sport or something else. And, yes, maybe that something else is something unique that gets a college application gold star, but hopefully most not doing activities only b/c “will look good on an application.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was disappointed to read this article from Ivy Coach that says that if your child is not going to be a recruited athlete, your child should not include their sports on the common app. I see the argument that it's not going to help my DC to stand out from the application pool and therefore, DC needs to focus on other ECs, but to say that an activity that takes up over 15 hours a week of DC's time each week (my DC plays on two school varsity teams, but isn't good enough to be a recruited athlete) seems like bad advice to me. I've heard this from other college counselors too, but I am not going to have DC quit sports - exercise is good for physical health and mental health and has enabled my otherwise quiet DC to become friends with lots of terrific kids from DC's school.

https://www.ivycoach.com/the-ivy-coach-blog/college-admissions/playing-sports-college-applications/

Does anyone here think that DC should actually leave two varsity sports teams off DC's college application? I have otherwise appreciated Ivy Coach's articles but now I'm really questioning their judgment and thinking it's bad advice.

Abject, unmitigated idiocy. Participation in HS athletics is often the great differentiator for the exceptionally high-achieving students, and not just at the recruited athlete level. Think of the time commitment, resolve, and grit that are necessary in individual and especially team sports - we're seriously going to pretend that membership or participation in the NHS, the Key Club, SADD and a random Rubik's cube competition are the signals that AOs are looking for ... ?

Student A: 4.00 unweighted, 15 AP classes, all 5s and 1 - 2 4s, 1600 SAT and/or 36 ACT, along with 12 - 15 ECs / awards that mostly align with their college major interests and help to achieve a cohesive narrative in their essays, plus they are a four-year varsity athlete who served as captain senior year and won a state title.

Student B: 4.00 unweighted, 15 AP classes, all 5s and 1 - 2 4s, 1600 SAT and/or 36 ACT, along with 16 - 20 ECs / awards that mostly align with their college major interests and help to achieve a cohesive narrative in their essays.

Student A absolutely trounces Student B in the eyes of AOs ... arguing otherwise is just absurd at this point.

15-20 ECs??? What the heck? Who has time for that? And how involved can one be in any of them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Koppleman which is another high-priced college advisory service essentially says the same thing.

Her advice is a bit more nuanced. She thinks it is fine to play one sport AND do lots of other ECs that make for an interesting application.

However, she will tell any 3-sport, unrecruited athlete to give up two of those sports and start spending your time on other more interesting ECs if you want a top school.

I think this is exactly why we have a mental health crisis in America.

It’s so freaking sad. We are essentially telling kids to not explore various interests and instead focus on something to just stand out vs develop life long interests.

[Anonymous]

A bunch of my friends were cheerleaders and not recruited and that was highlighted by the admissions committee for MIT. I also won a beauty contest and that also was noted among my other awards, so my experience says no it matters.

[Anonymous]

The valedictorian at my kid's private school did not even fill out all 10 spots on EC list (filled out 6). My DC knows this because he helped proof read the common app. The val had a school sport (nothing special), a school research project and couple of other things. He got into 3 ivies. So I don't think kids need to even fill out every spot on the EC and awards list either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The valedictorian at my kid's private school did not even fill out all 10 spots on EC list (filled out 6). My DC knows this because he helped proof read the common app. The val had a school sport (nothing special), a school research project and couple of other things. He got into 3 ivies. So I don't think kids need to even fill out every spot on the EC and awards list either.

Was this kid special in some other way -URM, first gen, legacy, donor, etc?

[Anonymous]

My kid is a not very good 4-year varsity athlete that also played the club sport off-season, so it was a LOT Of hours over 4 years. She put both on her application, and was admitted at her first choice T10 school (not recruited athlete, obviously, as she's not very good). She had a different EC that was more of her "thing" for her applications, and also a couple other ECs that were more just for fun that she also included.

I think it's bad advice to leave it off. I think part of what the college is looking for is the fact that this is a kid that can juggle multiple commitments -- whether that's a sport, or a volunteer activity or just working at McDonalds. If you can keep your grades up while doing something like that, that bodes well for your college career.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is a not very good 4-year varsity athlete that also played the club sport off-season, so it was a LOT Of hours over 4 years. She put both on her application, and was admitted at her first choice T10 school (not recruited athlete, obviously, as she's not very good). She had a different EC that was more of her "thing" for her applications, and also a couple other ECs that were more just for fun that she also included.

I think it's bad advice to leave it off. I think part of what the college is looking for is the fact that this is a kid that can juggle multiple commitments -- whether that's a sport, or a volunteer activity or just working at McDonalds. If you can keep your grades up while doing something like that, that bodes well for your college career.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is a not very good 4-year varsity athlete that also played the club sport off-season, so it was a LOT Of hours over 4 years. She put both on her application, and was admitted at her first choice T10 school (not recruited athlete, obviously, as she's not very good). She had a different EC that was more of her "thing" for her applications, and also a couple other ECs that were more just for fun that she also included.

I think it's bad advice to leave it off. I think part of what the college is looking for is the fact that this is a kid that can juggle multiple commitments -- whether that's a sport, or a volunteer activity or just working at McDonalds. If you can keep your grades up while doing something like that, that bodes well for your college career.

This is what’s important…
Yes do the sport. But your kid had so much more….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is a not very good 4-year varsity athlete that also played the club sport off-season, so it was a LOT Of hours over 4 years. She put both on her application, and was admitted at her first choice T10 school (not recruited athlete, obviously, as she's not very good). She had a different EC that was more of her "thing" for her applications, and also a couple other ECs that were more just for fun that she also included.

I think it's bad advice to leave it off. I think part of what the college is looking for is the fact that this is a kid that can juggle multiple commitments -- whether that's a sport, or a volunteer activity or just working at McDonalds. If you can keep your grades up while doing something like that, that bodes well for your college career.

This is what’s important…
Yes do the sport. But your kid had so much more….

Right. No one is arguing that sports-only is the right approach. The issue is the Ivy Coach advice, which is that including sports hurts an application, that students should not attempt to be well-rounded because that isn’t what top-ranked schools are looking for. Which is crazy and demonstrably not true.

Also, schools care about populating all of their activities; that’s part of what makes them vibrant and fun. Students who play sports are likely to continue playing on intramural and club teams in college, just like kids who do theater in HS are likely to keep doing theater in college, kids who work on the newspaper, etc. Colleges want kids who are going to be involved and contribute to the campus community.