Advice from Ivy Coach re not listing sports on college application

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sports are a huge commitment.
My son has practices basically every single day (5 days + a weekend in Fall and most days in Spring between club and HS workouts). It would be insane not to account for this type of commitment to shed light on what an accomplishment his 4.0 is given he has compromised free time.

Please.

Totally agree, my student also has a number of academic and extracurricular accomplishments that are even more impressive considering he is a three sport athlete is a demanding high school athletic conference.

I am not disagreeing with you, but something doesn't add up.

If you are in a demanding DMV athletic conference...let's take WCAC...and you are a varsity, 3 sport athlete (nearly impossible, but go with me)...well, you are getting recruited for something. I guess if you only participate in no-cut sports like XCountry, Indoor Track and Track...well maybe.

There are very few demanding HS athletic conferences in the entire US...so maybe that is the disconnect.

It’s Baltimore’s private school MIAA A conference, which has teams ranked in the top ten nationally for soccer, football, squash, and lacrosse, among others. And plenty of kids play on varsity teams in those sports who are not recruited so not sure where you are going with that.

Which three sports (BTW…squash really can’t be included here)? I don’t know a single Spaulding baseball varsity starter that plays three sports…almost none play two. Nearly all the staters are committed.

I know the Gilman football QB played another sport and is in fact a D1 commit.

There is no varsity starter in three sports that isn’t a commit for one of them. Again…a starter not someone who just makes the team.

BTW…the league doesn’t have a top ranked football team. Good Counsel is the only team in the DMV ranked in the top 30. Soccer doesn’t matter at all because literally all top HS aged athletes play for academy teams and can’t play for their HS teams.

Calvert Hall was ranked the top soccer team in the country a year or two ago. The Academy kids here get waivers to play, it’s very common. In any case, you don’t know as much about the teams here as you’d like to think.

It’s also strange that you think sports participation counts only if a kid is best on the team. Yes, for recruiting purposes. But otherwise, no. Making varsity in multiple sports is itself an accomplishment, and a huge commitment of time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sports are a huge commitment.
My son has practices basically every single day (5 days + a weekend in Fall and most days in Spring between club and HS workouts). It would be insane not to account for this type of commitment to shed light on what an accomplishment his 4.0 is given he has compromised free time.

Please.

Totally agree, my student also has a number of academic and extracurricular accomplishments that are even more impressive considering he is a three sport athlete is a demanding high school athletic conference.

I am not disagreeing with you, but something doesn't add up.

If you are in a demanding DMV athletic conference...let's take WCAC...and you are a varsity, 3 sport athlete (nearly impossible, but go with me)...well, you are getting recruited for something. I guess if you only participate in no-cut sports like XCountry, Indoor Track and Track...well maybe.

There are very few demanding HS athletic conferences in the entire US...so maybe that is the disconnect.

It’s Baltimore’s private school MIAA A conference, which has teams ranked in the top ten nationally for soccer, football, squash, and lacrosse, among others. And plenty of kids play on varsity teams in those sports who are not recruited so not sure where you are going with that.

Which three sports (BTW…squash really can’t be included here)? I don’t know a single Spaulding baseball varsity starter that plays three sports…almost none play two. Nearly all the staters are committed.

I know the Gilman football QB played another sport and is in fact a D1 commit.

There is no varsity starter in three sports that isn’t a commit for one of them. Again…a starter not someone who just makes the team.

BTW…the league doesn’t have a top ranked football team. Good Counsel is the only team in the DMV ranked in the top 30. Soccer doesn’t matter at all because literally all top HS aged athletes play for academy teams and can’t play for their HS teams.

Calvert Hall was ranked the top soccer team in the country a year or two ago. The Academy kids here get waivers to play, it’s very common. In any case, you don’t know as much about the teams here as you’d like to think.

It’s also strange that you think sports participation counts only if a kid is best on the team. Yes, for recruiting purposes. But otherwise, no. Making varsity in multiple sports is itself an accomplishment, and a huge commitment of time.

Adding at most of the schools in this conference for team sports, at least half of the varsity starter (or more) aren’t D1 recruits. Including baseball. If that was the case at Spaulding this year, it’s a rare exception.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sports are a huge commitment.
My son has practices basically every single day (5 days + a weekend in Fall and most days in Spring between club and HS workouts). It would be insane not to account for this type of commitment to shed light on what an accomplishment his 4.0 is given he has compromised free time.

Please.

Totally agree, my student also has a number of academic and extracurricular accomplishments that are even more impressive considering he is a three sport athlete is a demanding high school athletic conference.

I am not disagreeing with you, but something doesn't add up.

If you are in a demanding DMV athletic conference...let's take WCAC...and you are a varsity, 3 sport athlete (nearly impossible, but go with me)...well, you are getting recruited for something. I guess if you only participate in no-cut sports like XCountry, Indoor Track and Track...well maybe.

There are very few demanding HS athletic conferences in the entire US...so maybe that is the disconnect.

It’s Baltimore’s private school MIAA A conference, which has teams ranked in the top ten nationally for soccer, football, squash, and lacrosse, among others. And plenty of kids play on varsity teams in those sports who are not recruited so not sure where you are going with that.

Which three sports (BTW…squash really can’t be included here)? I don’t know a single Spaulding baseball varsity starter that plays three sports…almost none play two. Nearly all the staters are committed.

I know the Gilman football QB played another sport and is in fact a D1 commit.

There is no varsity starter in three sports that isn’t a commit for one of them. Again…a starter not someone who just makes the team.

BTW…the league doesn’t have a top ranked football team. Good Counsel is the only team in the DMV ranked in the top 30. Soccer doesn’t matter at all because literally all top HS aged athletes play for academy teams and can’t play for their HS teams.

Calvert Hall was ranked the top soccer team in the country a year or two ago. The Academy kids here get waivers to play, it’s very common. In any case, you don’t know as much about the teams here as you’d like to think.

It’s also strange that you think sports participation counts only if a kid is best on the team. Yes, for recruiting purposes. But otherwise, no. Making varsity in multiple sports is itself an accomplishment, and a huge commitment of time.

I didn’t say there wasn’t a top ranked HS soccer team….just that nobody pays attention to HS soccer because so many top HS players don’t play for their team.

Which three sports. I don’t know of any varsity starters at any school in the MiAA that plays three sports….i barely know anyone playing two sports.

Either put up or shut up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sports are a huge commitment.
My son has practices basically every single day (5 days + a weekend in Fall and most days in Spring between club and HS workouts). It would be insane not to account for this type of commitment to shed light on what an accomplishment his 4.0 is given he has compromised free time.

Please.

Totally agree, my student also has a number of academic and extracurricular accomplishments that are even more impressive considering he is a three sport athlete is a demanding high school athletic conference.

I am not disagreeing with you, but something doesn't add up.

If you are in a demanding DMV athletic conference...let's take WCAC...and you are a varsity, 3 sport athlete (nearly impossible, but go with me)...well, you are getting recruited for something. I guess if you only participate in no-cut sports like XCountry, Indoor Track and Track...well maybe.

There are very few demanding HS athletic conferences in the entire US...so maybe that is the disconnect.

It’s Baltimore’s private school MIAA A conference, which has teams ranked in the top ten nationally for soccer, football, squash, and lacrosse, among others. And plenty of kids play on varsity teams in those sports who are not recruited so not sure where you are going with that.

Which three sports (BTW…squash really can’t be included here)? I don’t know a single Spaulding baseball varsity starter that plays three sports…almost none play two. Nearly all the staters are committed.

I know the Gilman football QB played another sport and is in fact a D1 commit.

There is no varsity starter in three sports that isn’t a commit for one of them. Again…a starter not someone who just makes the team.

BTW…the league doesn’t have a top ranked football team. Good Counsel is the only team in the DMV ranked in the top 30. Soccer doesn’t matter at all because literally all top HS aged athletes play for academy teams and can’t play for their HS teams.

Calvert Hall was ranked the top soccer team in the country a year or two ago. The Academy kids here get waivers to play, it’s very common. In any case, you don’t know as much about the teams here as you’d like to think.

It’s also strange that you think sports participation counts only if a kid is best on the team. Yes, for recruiting purposes. But otherwise, no. Making varsity in multiple sports is itself an accomplishment, and a huge commitment of time.

Adding at most of the schools in this conference for team sports, at least half of the varsity starter (or more) aren’t D1 recruits. Including baseball. If that was the case at Spaulding this year, it’s a rare exception.

I understand that…but nobody is a three sport varsity athlete at one of these schools, actually plays, and happens to be average in all three (yet again, gets to play).

I get there are plenty of kids playing one sport and aren’t recruited.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sports are a huge commitment.
My son has practices basically every single day (5 days + a weekend in Fall and most days in Spring between club and HS workouts). It would be insane not to account for this type of commitment to shed light on what an accomplishment his 4.0 is given he has compromised free time.

Please.

Totally agree, my student also has a number of academic and extracurricular accomplishments that are even more impressive considering he is a three sport athlete is a demanding high school athletic conference.

I am not disagreeing with you, but something doesn't add up.

If you are in a demanding DMV athletic conference...let's take WCAC...and you are a varsity, 3 sport athlete (nearly impossible, but go with me)...well, you are getting recruited for something. I guess if you only participate in no-cut sports like XCountry, Indoor Track and Track...well maybe.

There are very few demanding HS athletic conferences in the entire US...so maybe that is the disconnect.

It’s Baltimore’s private school MIAA A conference, which has teams ranked in the top ten nationally for soccer, football, squash, and lacrosse, among others. And plenty of kids play on varsity teams in those sports who are not recruited so not sure where you are going with that.

Which three sports (BTW…squash really can’t be included here)? I don’t know a single Spaulding baseball varsity starter that plays three sports…almost none play two. Nearly all the staters are committed.

I know the Gilman football QB played another sport and is in fact a D1 commit.

There is no varsity starter in three sports that isn’t a commit for one of them. Again…a starter not someone who just makes the team.

BTW…the league doesn’t have a top ranked football team. Good Counsel is the only team in the DMV ranked in the top 30. Soccer doesn’t matter at all because literally all top HS aged athletes play for academy teams and can’t play for their HS teams.

Calvert Hall was ranked the top soccer team in the country a year or two ago. The Academy kids here get waivers to play, it’s very common. In any case, you don’t know as much about the teams here as you’d like to think.

It’s also strange that you think sports participation counts only if a kid is best on the team. Yes, for recruiting purposes. But otherwise, no. Making varsity in multiple sports is itself an accomplishment, and a huge commitment of time.

Adding at most of the schools in this conference for team sports, at least half of the varsity starter (or more) aren’t D1 recruits. Including baseball. If that was the case at Spaulding this year, it’s a rare exception.

I understand that…but nobody is a three sport varsity athlete at one of these schools, actually plays, and happens to be average in all three (yet again, gets to play).

I get there are plenty of kids playing one sport and aren’t recruited.

Again, you don’t know what you are talking about l

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sports are a huge commitment.
My son has practices basically every single day (5 days + a weekend in Fall and most days in Spring between club and HS workouts). It would be insane not to account for this type of commitment to shed light on what an accomplishment his 4.0 is given he has compromised free time.

Please.

Totally agree, my student also has a number of academic and extracurricular accomplishments that are even more impressive considering he is a three sport athlete is a demanding high school athletic conference.

I am not disagreeing with you, but something doesn't add up.

If you are in a demanding DMV athletic conference...let's take WCAC...and you are a varsity, 3 sport athlete (nearly impossible, but go with me)...well, you are getting recruited for something. I guess if you only participate in no-cut sports like XCountry, Indoor Track and Track...well maybe.

There are very few demanding HS athletic conferences in the entire US...so maybe that is the disconnect.

It’s Baltimore’s private school MIAA A conference, which has teams ranked in the top ten nationally for soccer, football, squash, and lacrosse, among others. And plenty of kids play on varsity teams in those sports who are not recruited so not sure where you are going with that.

Which three sports (BTW…squash really can’t be included here)? I don’t know a single Spaulding baseball varsity starter that plays three sports…almost none play two. Nearly all the staters are committed.

I know the Gilman football QB played another sport and is in fact a D1 commit.

There is no varsity starter in three sports that isn’t a commit for one of them. Again…a starter not someone who just makes the team.

BTW…the league doesn’t have a top ranked football team. Good Counsel is the only team in the DMV ranked in the top 30. Soccer doesn’t matter at all because literally all top HS aged athletes play for academy teams and can’t play for their HS teams.

True and it’s 4 nights of practice and games with lots of travel, showcases u sometimes need to miss school. It is a huge time commitment. This is mainly the boys’ side though with mlsnext, not the ecnl teams. My sons both dropped HS soccer after sophomore year cause you can’t do both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sports are a huge commitment.
My son has practices basically every single day (5 days + a weekend in Fall and most days in Spring between club and HS workouts). It would be insane not to account for this type of commitment to shed light on what an accomplishment his 4.0 is given he has compromised free time.

Please.

Totally agree, my student also has a number of academic and extracurricular accomplishments that are even more impressive considering he is a three sport athlete is a demanding high school athletic conference.

I am not disagreeing with you, but something doesn't add up.

If you are in a demanding DMV athletic conference...let's take WCAC...and you are a varsity, 3 sport athlete (nearly impossible, but go with me)...well, you are getting recruited for something. I guess if you only participate in no-cut sports like XCountry, Indoor Track and Track...well maybe.

There are very few demanding HS athletic conferences in the entire US...so maybe that is the disconnect.

It’s Baltimore’s private school MIAA A conference, which has teams ranked in the top ten nationally for soccer, football, squash, and lacrosse, among others. And plenty of kids play on varsity teams in those sports who are not recruited so not sure where you are going with that.

Which three sports (BTW…squash really can’t be included here)? I don’t know a single Spaulding baseball varsity starter that plays three sports…almost none play two. Nearly all the staters are committed.

I know the Gilman football QB played another sport and is in fact a D1 commit.

There is no varsity starter in three sports that isn’t a commit for one of them. Again…a starter not someone who just makes the team.

BTW…the league doesn’t have a top ranked football team. Good Counsel is the only team in the DMV ranked in the top 30. Soccer doesn’t matter at all because literally all top HS aged athletes play for academy teams and can’t play for their HS teams.

True and it’s 4 nights of practice and games with lots of travel, showcases u sometimes need to miss school. It is a huge time commitment. This is mainly the boys’ side though with mlsnext, not the ecnl teams. My sons both dropped HS soccer after sophomore year cause you can’t do both.

It’s different in Baltimore. Even Jacob Murrell played high school soccer.

[Anonymous]

The military academies give points for varsity sports (certain sports more so than others) and more points to captains.

The sports show leadership. No matter where your student is applying. But I agree, they need to have more than just a sport (if unrecruited).

All that said, the reason to play high school sports is not for the college applications. It’s all the intangibles that you know about if you played a sport yourself

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s true…it’s not an important EC.

That's true. From an admissions standpoint, sports are an irrelevant EC for all non-recruitable students. But sports are obviously important for the applicants themselves - being part of a team, mental health, conditioning, self-discipline etc. I'd certainly put it down on an application. But all students gunning for the Ivies and other top 20 schools need to make the decision whether the time commitment for varsity sports is worth the opportunity cost. Junior year in particular is intense. There are only so many hours in a day. And sometimes stepping down to rec sports is the wiser course of action if their heart is set on gaining admission to a highly selective college. Harvard and Stanford really don't care if an un-recruitable applicant is spending 20 hours a week on crew or soccer. It's the rest of the app that matters.

A girl from our W school got into Stanford. She played two varsity sports and had great grades. Not sure what the hook was but not a recruited athlete.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Heck no. They are idiots for saying so. There are many reasons to do sports unrelated to being recruited to play in college.

+ 1. Sports demonstrates being able to operate on a team, discipline/purpose/organization skills (especially if coupled with good grades), leadership if they rise to Captain, and the ability to deal with adversity when losing. That along with the physical benefits makes sports great for life holistically, not just in college apps. It would be one thing if you kid was doing it for a college advantage but if they really love it and played the sports their whole life it would be a huge negative to take it away.

At least that’s what the marketers of travel sports say! Sports are a great way for kids to spend some free time but it’s not all that impressive that a teen plays sports unless they are good enough to play in college. Admissions understand that a lot of parents think that sports look good on an application so they sign their kid up. There has to be more to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was disappointed to read this article from Ivy Coach that says that if your child is not going to be a recruited athlete, your child should not include their sports on the common app. I see the argument that it's not going to help my DC to stand out from the application pool and therefore, DC needs to focus on other ECs, but to say that an activity that takes up over 15 hours a week of DC's time each week (my DC plays on two school varsity teams, but isn't good enough to be a recruited athlete) seems like bad advice to me. I've heard this from other college counselors too, but I am not going to have DC quit sports - exercise is good for physical health and mental health and has enabled my otherwise quiet DC to become friends with lots of terrific kids from DC's school.

https://www.ivycoach.com/the-ivy-coach-blog/college-admissions/playing-sports-college-applications/

Does anyone here think that DC should actually leave two varsity sports teams off DC's college application? I have otherwise appreciated Ivy Coach's articles but now I'm really questioning their judgment and thinking it's bad advice.

Abject, unmitigated idiocy. Participation in HS athletics is often the great differentiator for the exceptionally high-achieving students, and not just at the recruited athlete level. Think of the time commitment, resolve, and grit that are necessary in individual and especially team sports - we're seriously going to pretend that membership or participation in the NHS, the Key Club, SADD and a random Rubik's cube competition are the signals that AOs are looking for ... ?

Student A: 4.00 unweighted, 15 AP classes, all 5s and 1 - 2 4s, 1600 SAT and/or 36 ACT, along with 12 - 15 ECs / awards that mostly align with their college major interests and help to achieve a cohesive narrative in their essays, plus they are a four-year varsity athlete who served as captain senior year and won a state title.

Student B: 4.00 unweighted, 15 AP classes, all 5s and 1 - 2 4s, 1600 SAT and/or 36 ACT, along with 16 - 20 ECs / awards that mostly align with their college major interests and help to achieve a cohesive narrative in their essays.

Student A absolutely trounces Student B in the eyes of AOs ... arguing otherwise is just absurd at this point.

If Student A was captain of a sport and won a title then why haven’t they been recruited? Recruiters would probably look at a team that won a state title, especially basketball, football, baseball or hockey. Why was applicant overlooked?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was disappointed to read this article from Ivy Coach that says that if your child is not going to be a recruited athlete, your child should not include their sports on the common app. I see the argument that it's not going to help my DC to stand out from the application pool and therefore, DC needs to focus on other ECs, but to say that an activity that takes up over 15 hours a week of DC's time each week (my DC plays on two school varsity teams, but isn't good enough to be a recruited athlete) seems like bad advice to me. I've heard this from other college counselors too, but I am not going to have DC quit sports - exercise is good for physical health and mental health and has enabled my otherwise quiet DC to become friends with lots of terrific kids from DC's school.

https://www.ivycoach.com/the-ivy-coach-blog/college-admissions/playing-sports-college-applications/

Does anyone here think that DC should actually leave two varsity sports teams off DC's college application? I have otherwise appreciated Ivy Coach's articles but now I'm really questioning their judgment and thinking it's bad advice.

Abject, unmitigated idiocy. Participation in HS athletics is often the great differentiator for the exceptionally high-achieving students, and not just at the recruited athlete level. Think of the time commitment, resolve, and grit that are necessary in individual and especially team sports - we're seriously going to pretend that membership or participation in the NHS, the Key Club, SADD and a random Rubik's cube competition are the signals that AOs are looking for ... ?

Student A: 4.00 unweighted, 15 AP classes, all 5s and 1 - 2 4s, 1600 SAT and/or 36 ACT, along with 12 - 15 ECs / awards that mostly align with their college major interests and help to achieve a cohesive narrative in their essays, plus they are a four-year varsity athlete who served as captain senior year and won a state title.

Student B: 4.00 unweighted, 15 AP classes, all 5s and 1 - 2 4s, 1600 SAT and/or 36 ACT, along with 16 - 20 ECs / awards that mostly align with their college major interests and help to achieve a cohesive narrative in their essays.

Student A absolutely trounces Student B in the eyes of AOs ... arguing otherwise is just absurd at this point.

If Student A was captain of a sport and won a title then why haven’t they been recruited? Recruiters would probably look at a team that won a state title, especially basketball, football, baseball or hockey. Why was applicant overlooked?

Perhaps the student doesn’t want to play D1 athletics at all or their level of ability doesn’t match the schools they are interested in for academics. Both are common.