Is suburban living considered a failure?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a weird question. If I had more money, I’d live by Bethesda, not Rockville. I wouldn’t live in DC proper. I enjoy not getting shot or carjacked

Because of the fentanyl epidemic, most suburban areas are far more dangerous than urban areas.

There’s also the obesity epidemic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the dream for most.

No. Definitely not.

The idea of being forced to drive everywhere, traffic jams, rage in the parking lots, rage on the sidelines of playing fields, rage in lines, racism, HOAs, severing social ties, monotony, etc makes me physically ill.

The parts of my life that would improve by moving to the suburbs are the parts of my life that I wish I could cut out (access to shopping malls, shorter commutes for insane kid's sports, car dealerships).

City dwellers don’t walk everywhere so stop lying
I haven’t been in a traffic jam since the last snow storm or hurricane and that was 5 cars stuck behind a fallen tree
Ever sidelines has crazy parents especially dc united clun, Gonzaga football, Georgetown basketball
More diverse in Germantown Md than most of dc
I have friends from grade school/hs/new neighborhoods/life… more likely to gather every weekend on someone’s deck than at a cramped bar,
Monotony is going to the same places within walking distance which is why you no longer walk everywhere

Some city dwellers really do walk everywhere. We have one car and only use it once or twice a week and one of those times is for my spouse to commute to a job... in the suburbs. We walk to our kid's school, the grocery store, the library, etc. Also lots of biking and public transportation.

I'm not anti-suburb but we do actually worry that if we moved we'd wind up spending a thousand percent more time in the car. We're trying to find a suburb where this wouldn't be the case as we'd love to have more space and get away from the crime issues but we are never going to come anywhere close to the level of convenience and walkability we have now.

Keep in mind that means you can actually afford to live in a walkable area of DC. Finding that with space for two kids generally requires the ability to purchase very expensive housing.

I lived in DV but could not afford an area like that. We could walk to a playground and maybe the library and a 7-11. We drove everywhere all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the dream for most.

No. Definitely not.

The idea of being forced to drive everywhere, traffic jams, rage in the parking lots, rage on the sidelines of playing fields, rage in lines, racism, HOAs, severing social ties, monotony, etc makes me physically ill.

The parts of my life that would improve by moving to the suburbs are the parts of my life that I wish I could cut out (access to shopping malls, shorter commutes for insane kid's sports, car dealerships).

City dwellers don’t walk everywhere so stop lying
I haven’t been in a traffic jam since the last snow storm or hurricane and that was 5 cars stuck behind a fallen tree
Ever sidelines has crazy parents especially dc united clun, Gonzaga football, Georgetown basketball
More diverse in Germantown Md than most of dc
I have friends from grade school/hs/new neighborhoods/life… more likely to gather every weekend on someone’s deck than at a cramped bar,
Monotony is going to the same places within walking distance which is why you no longer walk everywhere

Some city dwellers really do walk everywhere. We have one car and only use it once or twice a week and one of those times is for my spouse to commute to a job... in the suburbs. We walk to our kid's school, the grocery store, the library, etc. Also lots of biking and public transportation.

I'm not anti-suburb but we do actually worry that if we moved we'd wind up spending a thousand percent more time in the car. We're trying to find a suburb where this wouldn't be the case as we'd love to have more space and get away from the crime issues but we are never going to come anywhere close to the level of convenience and walkability we have now.

Keep in mind that means you can actually afford to live in a walkable area of DC. Finding that with space for two kids generally requires the ability to purchase very expensive housing.

I lived in DV but could not afford an area like that. We could walk to a playground and maybe the library and a 7-11. We drove everywhere all the time.

So unable to pay for the urban life, you retreated to the burbs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issues is that there is a great variety of quality of life in the city but in the suburbs the extremes are not as drastic (but still exist).

The difference in quality of life between the most expensive and least expensive parts of DC is very dramatic. In terms of size of homes, green space, crime, schools, traffic and noise, you name it.

This division also exists in the most and least expensive parts of the DC suburbs but there is a vaster middle ground where you get many of the amenities of the most expensive neighborhoods and can limit things like crime and noise.

Though I also think that the pricier an area gets, the less of a bargain the suburbs offer middle class people. Because the bargain gets pushed further and further out which increases commutes while decreasing access to city amenities. The inner suburbs are becoming unaffordable to the middle class in this area (except for those inner suburbs with the highest crime and lowest school test scores). When people are commuting in from Howard County or Frederick or Loudon, the tradeoffs are more stark. So you have people with decent middle class incomes choosing to stay in the city where at least they get walkability and amenities. If your only other options are SS or PG where crime and schools are about the same or moving much further out, why not just stay?

Work for a large DC hospital with tons of middle class (nurses, etc) and barely anyone actually lives in DC. Everyone commutes in.

Because they can’t afford to. So they get stuck in grim ticky tack developments with subpar construction and get saddled with crippling debt. They should be treated better.

Agree they can't afford to. And this is why I get irritated at plans to just shut down major traffic lanes without thought to provide better avenues into the city. City dwellers have a lot of disdain for the commuters who can't afford to live here yet provide their services, healthcare and more. I agree I hate busy roads in neighborhoods but the bigger picture has to account for how people can realistically get to their jobs but can't afford to live here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issues is that there is a great variety of quality of life in the city but in the suburbs the extremes are not as drastic (but still exist).

The difference in quality of life between the most expensive and least expensive parts of DC is very dramatic. In terms of size of homes, green space, crime, schools, traffic and noise, you name it.

This division also exists in the most and least expensive parts of the DC suburbs but there is a vaster middle ground where you get many of the amenities of the most expensive neighborhoods and can limit things like crime and noise.

Though I also think that the pricier an area gets, the less of a bargain the suburbs offer middle class people. Because the bargain gets pushed further and further out which increases commutes while decreasing access to city amenities. The inner suburbs are becoming unaffordable to the middle class in this area (except for those inner suburbs with the highest crime and lowest school test scores). When people are commuting in from Howard County or Frederick or Loudon, the tradeoffs are more stark. So you have people with decent middle class incomes choosing to stay in the city where at least they get walkability and amenities. If your only other options are SS or PG where crime and schools are about the same or moving much further out, why not just stay?

Work for a large DC hospital with tons of middle class (nurses, etc) and barely anyone actually lives in DC. Everyone commutes in.

Because they can’t afford to. So they get stuck in grim ticky tack developments with subpar construction and get saddled with crippling debt. They should be treated better.

Agree they can't afford to. And this is why I get irritated at plans to just shut down major traffic lanes without thought to provide better avenues into the city. City dwellers have a lot of disdain for the commuters who can't afford to live here yet provide their services, healthcare and more. I agree I hate busy roads in neighborhoods but the bigger picture has to account for how people can realistically get to their jobs but can't afford to live here.

Decades of research shows that expanding car infrastructure has the opposite effect - it adds volume and worsens congestion and is harmful to the urban communities.

This isn’t an anti suburb thing, it’s just science.

And a lot of the problems urban areas do have is due to failed transportation policies that favored single person auto use.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the dream for most.

No. Definitely not.

The idea of being forced to drive everywhere, traffic jams, rage in the parking lots, rage on the sidelines of playing fields, rage in lines, racism, HOAs, severing social ties, monotony, etc makes me physically ill.

The parts of my life that would improve by moving to the suburbs are the parts of my life that I wish I could cut out (access to shopping malls, shorter commutes for insane kid's sports, car dealerships).

City dwellers don’t walk everywhere so stop lying
I haven’t been in a traffic jam since the last snow storm or hurricane and that was 5 cars stuck behind a fallen tree
Ever sidelines has crazy parents especially dc united clun, Gonzaga football, Georgetown basketball
More diverse in Germantown Md than most of dc
I have friends from grade school/hs/new neighborhoods/life… more likely to gather every weekend on someone’s deck than at a cramped bar,
Monotony is going to the same places within walking distance which is why you no longer walk everywhere

Some city dwellers really do walk everywhere. We have one car and only use it once or twice a week and one of those times is for my spouse to commute to a job... in the suburbs. We walk to our kid's school, the grocery store, the library, etc. Also lots of biking and public transportation.

I'm not anti-suburb but we do actually worry that if we moved we'd wind up spending a thousand percent more time in the car. We're trying to find a suburb where this wouldn't be the case as we'd love to have more space and get away from the crime issues but we are never going to come anywhere close to the level of convenience and walkability we have now.

Keep in mind that means you can actually afford to live in a walkable area of DC. Finding that with space for two kids generally requires the ability to purchase very expensive housing.

I lived in DV but could not afford an area like that. We could walk to a playground and maybe the library and a 7-11. We drove everywhere all the time.

So unable to pay for the urban life, you retreated to the burbs.

City life isn't the default or standard that all other living styles are a deviation from. Your framing things this way is a pretense. For example, I didn't grow up in a city, choose to go to college in a city, or live in a city as an adult. It never entered my mind to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the dream for most.

No. Definitely not.

The idea of being forced to drive everywhere, traffic jams, rage in the parking lots, rage on the sidelines of playing fields, rage in lines, racism, HOAs, severing social ties, monotony, etc makes me physically ill.

The parts of my life that would improve by moving to the suburbs are the parts of my life that I wish I could cut out (access to shopping malls, shorter commutes for insane kid's sports, car dealerships).

City dwellers don’t walk everywhere so stop lying
I haven’t been in a traffic jam since the last snow storm or hurricane and that was 5 cars stuck behind a fallen tree
Ever sidelines has crazy parents especially dc united clun, Gonzaga football, Georgetown basketball
More diverse in Germantown Md than most of dc
I have friends from grade school/hs/new neighborhoods/life… more likely to gather every weekend on someone’s deck than at a cramped bar,
Monotony is going to the same places within walking distance which is why you no longer walk everywhere

Some city dwellers really do walk everywhere. We have one car and only use it once or twice a week and one of those times is for my spouse to commute to a job... in the suburbs. We walk to our kid's school, the grocery store, the library, etc. Also lots of biking and public transportation.

I'm not anti-suburb but we do actually worry that if we moved we'd wind up spending a thousand percent more time in the car. We're trying to find a suburb where this wouldn't be the case as we'd love to have more space and get away from the crime issues but we are never going to come anywhere close to the level of convenience and walkability we have now.

Keep in mind that means you can actually afford to live in a walkable area of DC. Finding that with space for two kids generally requires the ability to purchase very expensive housing.

I lived in DV but could not afford an area like that. We could walk to a playground and maybe the library and a 7-11. We drove everywhere all the time.

So unable to pay for the urban life, you retreated to the burbs.

Yes but also we lived next to a hoarder with a roach infestation and other major nuisances I don't go into. So you can say there were multiple factors like never ever ever ever ever wanting to share walls with a neighbor again.

[Anonymous]

I think living in a walkable suburb, close to metro, with good public schools and county services, but still close enough in to enjoy city amenities frequently is the dream for a lot of people (at least for me it is). I live along the orange line in Arlington and am so happy raising my family here. My house isn’t new and big, but it’s nicely updated with a yard big enough for kids to run around plus several parks within a less than half a mile walk. Not all suburbs are created equal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issues is that there is a great variety of quality of life in the city but in the suburbs the extremes are not as drastic (but still exist).

The difference in quality of life between the most expensive and least expensive parts of DC is very dramatic. In terms of size of homes, green space, crime, schools, traffic and noise, you name it.

This division also exists in the most and least expensive parts of the DC suburbs but there is a vaster middle ground where you get many of the amenities of the most expensive neighborhoods and can limit things like crime and noise.

Though I also think that the pricier an area gets, the less of a bargain the suburbs offer middle class people. Because the bargain gets pushed further and further out which increases commutes while decreasing access to city amenities. The inner suburbs are becoming unaffordable to the middle class in this area (except for those inner suburbs with the highest crime and lowest school test scores). When people are commuting in from Howard County or Frederick or Loudon, the tradeoffs are more stark. So you have people with decent middle class incomes choosing to stay in the city where at least they get walkability and amenities. If your only other options are SS or PG where crime and schools are about the same or moving much further out, why not just stay?

Work for a large DC hospital with tons of middle class (nurses, etc) and barely anyone actually lives in DC. Everyone commutes in.

Because they can’t afford to. So they get stuck in grim ticky tack developments with subpar construction and get saddled with crippling debt. They should be treated better.

Agree they can't afford to. And this is why I get irritated at plans to just shut down major traffic lanes without thought to provide better avenues into the city. City dwellers have a lot of disdain for the commuters who can't afford to live here yet provide their services, healthcare and more. I agree I hate busy roads in neighborhoods but the bigger picture has to account for how people can realistically get to their jobs but can't afford to live here.

Decades of research shows that expanding car infrastructure has the opposite effect - it adds volume and worsens congestion and is harmful to the urban communities.

This isn’t an anti suburb thing, it’s just science.

And a lot of the problems urban areas do have is due to failed transportation policies that favored single person auto use.

It is not science, it is a reddit based ideology, one that has emerged because Gen Z men can't afford cars so they need to rationalize them as evil.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the dream for most.

No. Definitely not.

The idea of being forced to drive everywhere, traffic jams, rage in the parking lots, rage on the sidelines of playing fields, rage in lines, racism, HOAs, severing social ties, monotony, etc makes me physically ill.

The parts of my life that would improve by moving to the suburbs are the parts of my life that I wish I could cut out (access to shopping malls, shorter commutes for insane kid's sports, car dealerships).

City dwellers don’t walk everywhere so stop lying
I haven’t been in a traffic jam since the last snow storm or hurricane and that was 5 cars stuck behind a fallen tree
Ever sidelines has crazy parents especially dc united clun, Gonzaga football, Georgetown basketball
More diverse in Germantown Md than most of dc
I have friends from grade school/hs/new neighborhoods/life… more likely to gather every weekend on someone’s deck than at a cramped bar,
Monotony is going to the same places within walking distance which is why you no longer walk everywhere

Some city dwellers really do walk everywhere. We have one car and only use it once or twice a week and one of those times is for my spouse to commute to a job... in the suburbs. We walk to our kid's school, the grocery store, the library, etc. Also lots of biking and public transportation.

I'm not anti-suburb but we do actually worry that if we moved we'd wind up spending a thousand percent more time in the car. We're trying to find a suburb where this wouldn't be the case as we'd love to have more space and get away from the crime issues but we are never going to come anywhere close to the level of convenience and walkability we have now.

Keep in mind that means you can actually afford to live in a walkable area of DC. Finding that with space for two kids generally requires the ability to purchase very expensive housing.

I lived in DV but could not afford an area like that. We could walk to a playground and maybe the library and a 7-11. We drove everywhere all the time.

So unable to pay for the urban life, you retreated to the burbs.

Yes but also we lived next to a hoarder with a roach infestation and other major nuisances I don't go into. So you can say there were multiple factors like never ever ever ever ever wanting to share walls with a neighbor again.

Oh and a large yard is blissful especially as someone who adores gardening... Especially without a rat parade and where I can drink my coffee and stare at my plants in peace without excessive litter or people constantly walking by smoking pot which stinks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the dream for most.

No. Definitely not.

The idea of being forced to drive everywhere, traffic jams, rage in the parking lots, rage on the sidelines of playing fields, rage in lines, racism, HOAs, severing social ties, monotony, etc makes me physically ill.

The parts of my life that would improve by moving to the suburbs are the parts of my life that I wish I could cut out (access to shopping malls, shorter commutes for insane kid's sports, car dealerships).

City dwellers don’t walk everywhere so stop lying
I haven’t been in a traffic jam since the last snow storm or hurricane and that was 5 cars stuck behind a fallen tree
Ever sidelines has crazy parents especially dc united clun, Gonzaga football, Georgetown basketball
More diverse in Germantown Md than most of dc
I have friends from grade school/hs/new neighborhoods/life… more likely to gather every weekend on someone’s deck than at a cramped bar,
Monotony is going to the same places within walking distance which is why you no longer walk everywhere

Some city dwellers really do walk everywhere. We have one car and only use it once or twice a week and one of those times is for my spouse to commute to a job... in the suburbs. We walk to our kid's school, the grocery store, the library, etc. Also lots of biking and public transportation.

I'm not anti-suburb but we do actually worry that if we moved we'd wind up spending a thousand percent more time in the car. We're trying to find a suburb where this wouldn't be the case as we'd love to have more space and get away from the crime issues but we are never going to come anywhere close to the level of convenience and walkability we have now.

Keep in mind that means you can actually afford to live in a walkable area of DC. Finding that with space for two kids generally requires the ability to purchase very expensive housing.

I lived in DV but could not afford an area like that. We could walk to a playground and maybe the library and a 7-11. We drove everywhere all the time.

So unable to pay for the urban life, you retreated to the burbs.

City life isn't the default or standard that all other living styles are a deviation from. Your framing things this way is a pretense. For example, I didn't grow up in a city, choose to go to college in a city, or live in a city as an adult. It never entered my mind to do so.

And the idea that people by default want cars, debt, massive environmentally unsustainable housing, HOAs and brutal commutes is also a pretense. It’s something that people have been trained to do - it’s expensive, inefficient and counter to our natural instincts (other than catering to some humans’ natural fears of others). It’s not a coincidence the suburban wastelands developed as television advertising and marketing came into its own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the dream for most.

No. Definitely not.

The idea of being forced to drive everywhere, traffic jams, rage in the parking lots, rage on the sidelines of playing fields, rage in lines, racism, HOAs, severing social ties, monotony, etc makes me physically ill.

The parts of my life that would improve by moving to the suburbs are the parts of my life that I wish I could cut out (access to shopping malls, shorter commutes for insane kid's sports, car dealerships).

City dwellers don’t walk everywhere so stop lying
I haven’t been in a traffic jam since the last snow storm or hurricane and that was 5 cars stuck behind a fallen tree
Ever sidelines has crazy parents especially dc united clun, Gonzaga football, Georgetown basketball
More diverse in Germantown Md than most of dc
I have friends from grade school/hs/new neighborhoods/life… more likely to gather every weekend on someone’s deck than at a cramped bar,
Monotony is going to the same places within walking distance which is why you no longer walk everywhere

Some city dwellers really do walk everywhere. We have one car and only use it once or twice a week and one of those times is for my spouse to commute to a job... in the suburbs. We walk to our kid's school, the grocery store, the library, etc. Also lots of biking and public transportation.

I'm not anti-suburb but we do actually worry that if we moved we'd wind up spending a thousand percent more time in the car. We're trying to find a suburb where this wouldn't be the case as we'd love to have more space and get away from the crime issues but we are never going to come anywhere close to the level of convenience and walkability we have now.

I’m not exactly sure what you would be doing in your car all the time.

80% of jobs are in the suburbs, A huge percentage of jobs are working at home, I don’t have any need to get into my car except for once a week to go grocery shopping.

I live close to paths and hiking trails. I literally spend all my time either biking or hiking or kayaking or playing Pickleball or golfing.

So I drive to golfing.

Where are you guys in your cars all the time?

Where are you guys walking to when you’re in the city?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the dream for most.

No. Definitely not.

The idea of being forced to drive everywhere, traffic jams, rage in the parking lots, rage on the sidelines of playing fields, rage in lines, racism, HOAs, severing social ties, monotony, etc makes me physically ill.

The parts of my life that would improve by moving to the suburbs are the parts of my life that I wish I could cut out (access to shopping malls, shorter commutes for insane kid's sports, car dealerships).

City dwellers don’t walk everywhere so stop lying
I haven’t been in a traffic jam since the last snow storm or hurricane and that was 5 cars stuck behind a fallen tree
Ever sidelines has crazy parents especially dc united clun, Gonzaga football, Georgetown basketball
More diverse in Germantown Md than most of dc
I have friends from grade school/hs/new neighborhoods/life… more likely to gather every weekend on someone’s deck than at a cramped bar,
Monotony is going to the same places within walking distance which is why you no longer walk everywhere

Some city dwellers really do walk everywhere. We have one car and only use it once or twice a week and one of those times is for my spouse to commute to a job... in the suburbs. We walk to our kid's school, the grocery store, the library, etc. Also lots of biking and public transportation.

I'm not anti-suburb but we do actually worry that if we moved we'd wind up spending a thousand percent more time in the car. We're trying to find a suburb where this wouldn't be the case as we'd love to have more space and get away from the crime issues but we are never going to come anywhere close to the level of convenience and walkability we have now.

Keep in mind that means you can actually afford to live in a walkable area of DC. Finding that with space for two kids generally requires the ability to purchase very expensive housing.

I lived in DV but could not afford an area like that. We could walk to a playground and maybe the library and a 7-11. We drove everywhere all the time.

So unable to pay for the urban life, you retreated to the burbs.

Yes but also we lived next to a hoarder with a roach infestation and other major nuisances I don't go into. So you can say there were multiple factors like never ever ever ever ever wanting to share walls with a neighbor again.

Oh and a large yard is blissful especially as someone who adores gardening... Especially without a rat parade and where I can drink my coffee and stare at my plants in peace without excessive litter or people constantly walking by smoking pot which stinks

My dc row house also has a garden? And I have a community garden plot and I have hundreds of acres of parkland.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think living in a walkable suburb, close to metro, with good public schools and county services, but still close enough in to enjoy city amenities frequently is the dream for a lot of people (at least for me it is). I live along the orange line in Arlington and am so happy raising my family here. My house isn’t new and big, but it’s nicely updated with a yard big enough for kids to run around plus several parks within a less than half a mile walk. Not all suburbs are created equal.

Again, I’m just not sure why you need to be so close to the metro. Where are you going all the time?

I’m reading and walking and hiking and gardening. Where are you going?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think living in a walkable suburb, close to metro, with good public schools and county services, but still close enough in to enjoy city amenities frequently is the dream for a lot of people (at least for me it is). I live along the orange line in Arlington and am so happy raising my family here. My house isn’t new and big, but it’s nicely updated with a yard big enough for kids to run around plus several parks within a less than half a mile walk. Not all suburbs are created equal.

That’s outside of dc limits but would be classified as urban.