MCPS has no idea what it's doing when it comes to chronic absenteeism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As usual, the SMOB has the most sober and common sense take on the issue:

Contrary to popular beliefs, adolescent minds can be pretty binary. Either it's required or it's not. And if it's required but there's no consequence if they don't meet the requirement, kids pretty quickly figure it's not actually required.

Adults have decided to stop being adults and have decided kids, who developmentally lack the ability to grasp the long-term effects of their choices and decisions, are best suited to make decisions that limit their potential and development in the long-run.

Sami is smart and eloquent (and by the way, he did compliment the work in progress to make school more accessible to students) but that doesn't mean he understands the situation of at-risk teens who might not be on college track and frankly might not even need what high school is offering them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there are a bunch of different problems being conflated and they all have different solutions.

One is that there is some degree of incorrect reporting.

Another is that there are kids who are very invested in school who make strategic decisions about skipping. Mine do this all the time. They might skip class if there is a sub; they know the teacher is offering just a study hall or watching a movie; it is a review for material they already know; or it is a teacher who just never teaches. When they skip these classes, it is typically because other teachers have assigned a LOT of work and so they are trying to catch up; they have been out sick and are trying to catch up; they have a big test and want the extra time for study. I did the same thing back in HS and I don't think it's a bad idea. It does seem like they have more classes that are just "nothing is going to happen today" classes than I did. My son has one class that is almost entirely independent study becuase the teacher doesn't seem to know the material and just gives the kids class time to work together to figure it out. When he wants to skip that because he's exhausted, I'm not going to force him to sit through that.

Then there's the kids with chronic illnesses, who are desperate for an education, but MCPS does very little to facilitate that for them. They are just considered chronically truant when they are dealing with serious chronic health conditions.

Then there's the kids that are really checked out of education and are ditching class to do....other stuff. These kids really need a better solution. Some of htem might just do better in a non-educational setting. Some might do better if they had a lot more social services support. Some might just need parents who really understand how little their kids are in class, so they can start to impose consequences.

I think until they break these numbers down into the different problems, it's hard to come up with a solution.

The ability to analyze and break down complex problems in the way that you just did is not something MCPS leadership is capable of doing.

I'm sure you are right, but it is indicative of the fact that chronic absenteeism itself encompasses both problems and non-problems as well as issues that are MCPS's fault and issues that are the students'/parents' fault. These things should not be conflated. We shouldn't be focusing on absenteeism itself, but rather the underlying problems.

For example, an actionable plan is: see if a chronically absent kid is failing major exams. If not, leave them be. If so, then see if they have a major health issue. If so, provide take-home materials so they can do the course at home. If not, only then start reaching out, bothering parents, implementation meaningful attendance enforcement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there are a bunch of different problems being conflated and they all have different solutions.

One is that there is some degree of incorrect reporting.

Another is that there are kids who are very invested in school who make strategic decisions about skipping. Mine do this all the time. They might skip class if there is a sub; they know the teacher is offering just a study hall or watching a movie; it is a review for material they already know; or it is a teacher who just never teaches. When they skip these classes, it is typically because other teachers have assigned a LOT of work and so they are trying to catch up; they have been out sick and are trying to catch up; they have a big test and want the extra time for study. I did the same thing back in HS and I don't think it's a bad idea. It does seem like they have more classes that are just "nothing is going to happen today" classes than I did. My son has one class that is almost entirely independent study becuase the teacher doesn't seem to know the material and just gives the kids class time to work together to figure it out. When he wants to skip that because he's exhausted, I'm not going to force him to sit through that.

Then there's the kids with chronic illnesses, who are desperate for an education, but MCPS does very little to facilitate that for them. They are just considered chronically truant when they are dealing with serious chronic health conditions.

Then there's the kids that are really checked out of education and are ditching class to do....other stuff. These kids really need a better solution. Some of htem might just do better in a non-educational setting. Some might do better if they had a lot more social services support. Some might just need parents who really understand how little their kids are in class, so they can start to impose consequences.

I think until they break these numbers down into the different problems, it's hard to come up with a solution.

The ability to analyze and break down complex problems in the way that you just did is not something MCPS leadership is capable of doing.

I'm sure you are right, but it is indicative of the fact that chronic absenteeism itself encompasses both problems and non-problems as well as issues that are MCPS's fault and issues that are the students'/parents' fault. These things should not be conflated. We shouldn't be focusing on absenteeism itself, but rather the underlying problems.

For example, an actionable plan is: see if a chronically absent kid is failing major exams. If not, leave them be. If so, then see if they have a major health issue. If so, provide take-home materials so they can do the course at home. If not, only then start reaching out, bothering parents, implementation meaningful attendance enforcement.

I would not agree that students skipping because they know there are no consequences is a non-problem.

In the scenario you outlined, what reasonable response would you expect for a kid who is chronically absent, but does not have a medical condition, and is failing exams and classes because they're skipping class and not turning in assignments and bombing the tests because they don't know the material?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As usual, the SMOB has the most sober and common sense take on the issue:

Contrary to popular beliefs, adolescent minds can be pretty binary. Either it's required or it's not. And if it's required but there's no consequence if they don't meet the requirement, kids pretty quickly figure it's not actually required.

Adults have decided to stop being adults and have decided kids, who developmentally lack the ability to grasp the long-term effects of their choices and decisions, are best suited to make decisions that limit their potential and development in the long-run.

Sami is smart and eloquent (and by the way, he did compliment the work in progress to make school more accessible to students) but that doesn't mean he understands the situation of at-risk teens who might not be on college track and frankly might not even need what high school is offering them.

There is a solution for at-risk teens: They're called PPWs. Those PPWs are why Steve Neff is there. And there's a host of wraparound services to help those at-risk teens.

But Sami was talking about the kids who aren't at-risk but just skip or don't go to school because there's no consequence. Those kids are the majority and they're the ones who are just below, above or at the chronically absent mark and he's telling they are absent because they know there's no consequence if they miss class. He was very clear about which subset of chronically absent students he was talking about.

[Anonymous]

A teacher can give a zero for the assignment that day if a student skips a class. It’s the same policy as when a kid refuses to do work in class that day. Teacher discretion as long as the parent is notified. I have done it several times this year with a particular student who likes to skip. It’s not hard for a teacher to look up the attendance for a specific kid and figure out if he/she missed class that day but was present in other classes. There is no firm policy on holding kids accountable for being late or for disrupting class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there are a bunch of different problems being conflated and they all have different solutions.

One is that there is some degree of incorrect reporting.

Another is that there are kids who are very invested in school who make strategic decisions about skipping. Mine do this all the time. They might skip class if there is a sub; they know the teacher is offering just a study hall or watching a movie; it is a review for material they already know; or it is a teacher who just never teaches. When they skip these classes, it is typically because other teachers have assigned a LOT of work and so they are trying to catch up; they have been out sick and are trying to catch up; they have a big test and want the extra time for study. I did the same thing back in HS and I don't think it's a bad idea. It does seem like they have more classes that are just "nothing is going to happen today" classes than I did. My son has one class that is almost entirely independent study becuase the teacher doesn't seem to know the material and just gives the kids class time to work together to figure it out. When he wants to skip that because he's exhausted, I'm not going to force him to sit through that.

Then there's the kids with chronic illnesses, who are desperate for an education, but MCPS does very little to facilitate that for them. They are just considered chronically truant when they are dealing with serious chronic health conditions.

Then there's the kids that are really checked out of education and are ditching class to do....other stuff. These kids really need a better solution. Some of htem might just do better in a non-educational setting. Some might do better if they had a lot more social services support. Some might just need parents who really understand how little their kids are in class, so they can start to impose consequences.

I think until they break these numbers down into the different problems, it's hard to come up with a solution.

The ability to analyze and break down complex problems in the way that you just did is not something MCPS leadership is capable of doing.

I'm sure you are right, but it is indicative of the fact that chronic absenteeism itself encompasses both problems and non-problems as well as issues that are MCPS's fault and issues that are the students'/parents' fault. These things should not be conflated. We shouldn't be focusing on absenteeism itself, but rather the underlying problems.

For example, an actionable plan is: see if a chronically absent kid is failing major exams. If not, leave them be. If so, then see if they have a major health issue. If so, provide take-home materials so they can do the course at home. If not, only then start reaching out, bothering parents, implementation meaningful attendance enforcement.

I would not agree that students skipping because they know there are no consequences is a non-problem.

In the scenario you outlined, what reasonable response would you expect for a kid who is chronically absent, but does not have a medical condition, and is failing exams and classes because they're skipping class and not turning in assignments and bombing the tests because they don't know the material?

Detention? I mean there is only so much a school can do if a student is truly checked out. Eventually it just becomes the responsibility of the student and parent to sort out how they hope to achieve their goals.

[Anonymous]

Somebody from the 90s, correct me if I’m wrong. When I was in high school, I recall that after a certain amount of unexcused absences your grade would be docked. Meaning you could actually fail a class. Back then there was such a thing as failing classes and not graduating, so maybe bring that back? I could be wrong because I did not have unexcused absences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should make schools more engaging if they want kids to attend. Forcing it with punitive measures is a bad look. If your service is not very useful to students and parents, of course they won't use it as much. I don't see how chronic absenteeism per se is a problem at all. It's just a symptom of schools not being that fun or educational.

Why don't you sh** on teachers a little bit more? The problem with people today is that everyone is a "client." Now students are clients? GTFO. MCPS should focus on finding a good curriculum and hiring quality teachers. My guess is that most of the kids not showing up are a PIA anyway. If they don't want an education, what do we care.

I love this comment

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Somebody from the 90s, correct me if I’m wrong. When I was in high school, I recall that after a certain amount of unexcused absences your grade would be docked. Meaning you could actually fail a class. Back then there was such a thing as failing classes and not graduating, so maybe bring that back? I could be wrong because I did not have unexcused absences.

If you watch the BOE meeting video (I know it's long) this was addressed by Damon Monteleone.

Long story short, LC or E3 (which are the two policies you described that MCPS had in place) were inconsistently enforced in a way that was racist/inequitable. Black and brown kids were issued LCs or E3s disproportionately because their parents were less likely to write excuse notes for their absences compared to their white and Asian counterparts.

So long story short: MCPS doesn't want to bring those policies back because they believe them to be racist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is constantly marked absent when they are at school. I stopped bothering to email banditry to fix it.

Are you sure they are in class when attendance is taken? Maybe that is the problem

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Somebody from the 90s, correct me if I’m wrong. When I was in high school, I recall that after a certain amount of unexcused absences your grade would be docked. Meaning you could actually fail a class. Back then there was such a thing as failing classes and not graduating, so maybe bring that back? I could be wrong because I did not have unexcused absences.

If you watch the BOE meeting video (I know it's long) this was addressed by Damon Monteleone.

Long story short, LC or E3 (which are the two policies you described that MCPS had in place) were inconsistently enforced in a way that was racist/inequitable. Black and brown kids were issued LCs or E3s disproportionately because their parents were less likely to write excuse notes for their absences compared to their white and Asian counterparts.

So long story short: MCPS doesn't want to bring those policies back because they believe them to be racist.

If you think LCs were racist and inequitable, then you will think ANY enforcement will be racist and inequitable. The same logic can be applied to detention, etc.

Personally I don't care if it's enforced or not, but I don't see how any other policy would be different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is constantly marked absent when they are at school. I stopped bothering to email banditry to fix it.

Are you sure they are in class when attendance is taken? Maybe that is the problem

Yep. And if the attendance secretary didn’t correct it when they came in then it sticks. Easy to see if you look at the period breakdown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is constantly marked absent when they are at school. I stopped bothering to email banditry to fix it.

Are you sure they are in class when attendance is taken? Maybe that is the problem

Yes, because I spoke to the teacher as there was issues with testing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that at the high school level having weekend or night classes would help solve the issue of kids who have work/family obligations and choose to skip. There are plenty of low income students who need to work to help their families so being more realistic about a school pathway for these students would really be helpful. I remember when night school/Saturday school was a thing for students who needed to just take basic core classes. I also think that solving the safety issues at school would help. At a start we need a school staffed to deal with students who pose a physical risk to other students. Again in the past there were schools like this. It makes no sense that the same known to be violent students keep getting recycled between schools. Yes all kids deserve an education but not at the expense of student safety. I don’t think schools need to strive to be amusement park fun but they do need to be safe. It is reasonable for students to skip school if school is not safe. And, schools need remedial classes. It does no one any good for students to be in a class where they do not understand the content, and this will also lead to skipping.

Very true!!!

I know a high school ballerina in a ballet conservatory who needs to be homeschooled with expensive online courses. It would be cheaper for her parents if evening core classes in her home public were available! The Virtual Academy has the same daytime hours as regular school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is constantly marked absent when they are at school. I stopped bothering to email banditry to fix it.

Are you sure they are in class when attendance is taken? Maybe that is the problem

And sometimes they just don't answer "here".