MCPS has no idea what it's doing when it comes to chronic absenteeism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should make schools more engaging if they want kids to attend. Forcing it with punitive measures is a bad look. If your service is not very useful to students and parents, of course they won't use it as much. I don't see how chronic absenteeism per se is a problem at all. It's just a symptom of schools not being that fun or educational.

Why don't you sh** on teachers a little bit more? The problem with people today is that everyone is a "client." Now students are clients? GTFO. MCPS should focus on finding a good curriculum and hiring quality teachers. My guess is that most of the kids not showing up are a PIA anyway. If they don't want an education, what do we care.

Who do you think schools are for? Teacher job programs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are PPs on this thread really role playing as parents of chronically absent kids?

We are saying that MCPS does not keep accurate records, and with absences being marked even when kids are in school (possibly late), the absence number might be inflated.

No one disputes that some kids are chronically absent, but
A. perhaps there are fewer chronically absent kids than MCPS thinks and
B. chronic absenteeism has to do with poverty and a troubled home life, which is not something schools can easily fix.

So this is all for nothing. Let's focus on more security in school (vaping detectors, weapons detectors, security officers), and a better caliber of teachers with a more rigorous curriculum, smaller classes and more textbooks.

They can do things like change the bus rules to a mile or less for HS, so kids aren't walking 2 miles, sometimes not in safe areas. That would help. They can also do more with things like clothing closets, food pantries, laundry facilities, etc. - school shouldn't be social services but it is worth it if it helps kids with the basic needs. Take away some of the barriers. Offer free lunch and breakfast to more students.

But, I think that a lot of kids are marked absent when they aren't. I track my kid through their phone and I know they are at school as I can see the tests and other things completed online. I gave up fixing it. Mine has been marked absent three times. (and yes, they could leave their phone at school and skip but they are too attached to their phone).

And that last paragraph with the security, teachers, rigorous curriculum, TEXTBOOKS, and also I'd add more supports for struggling students starting in elementary school. You need to catch and remediate very young as in 1-2nd grade so they don't fall behind and give up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should make schools more engaging if they want kids to attend. Forcing it with punitive measures is a bad look. If your service is not very useful to students and parents, of course they won't use it as much. I don't see how chronic absenteeism per se is a problem at all. It's just a symptom of schools not being that fun or educational.

Why don't you sh** on teachers a little bit more? The problem with people today is that everyone is a "client." Now students are clients? GTFO. MCPS should focus on finding a good curriculum and hiring quality teachers. My guess is that most of the kids not showing up are a PIA anyway. If they don't want an education, what do we care.

We have really good teachers, really bad teachers and most in-between. We have reached out to some teachers and they absolutely refuse to respond. Same with our school counselor and VP. We need more of the really good teachers and weed out the bad ones. Many of our kids do want to be challenged and learn and this honors for everyone and no tracking is hurting all kids - it hurts the smart kids who aren't being challenged and it hurts the struggling kids who need more support and cannot keep up with a regularly paced class. Teachers NEED to partner with parents. If we are notified of an issue, we will deal with it immediately. Granted, not all parents will, but seek out the ones who will and at least work with those of us willing.

[Anonymous]

Parents are a big part of the problem with chronic absenteeism. I am a parent, and I'm surprised how many kids miss school, b/c they don't feel like going. (Based on what my kids say)

It's also hard to stop people this area from taking long trips/vacations & expecting the teachers/school to accommodate them!

Maybe publicly acknowledging perfect attendance again would help a little?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a lot of kids, anything other than video games and social media is “boring.” Teachers can’t compete with the dopamine rush from those. Not sure how some of these kids will make it in the real world.

I dunno, I'm an adult with a well compensated job that I find interesting. It would be torturous sitting through my kids' high school day. School is much more boring than the real world in my experience. At least in college I was choosing to be there and could mostly just take the classes I was interested in.

Teachers have projects, group work, presentations, discussions, walk-through, simulations, labs, guest speakers, field trips, etc. We are finding that none of it can compete with smartphones for many of our students. It was sad seeing every kid glued to a smartphone on a recent field trip to a pretty cool place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a lot of kids, anything other than video games and social media is “boring.” Teachers can’t compete with the dopamine rush from those. Not sure how some of these kids will make it in the real world.

I dunno, I'm an adult with a well compensated job that I find interesting. It would be torturous sitting through my kids' high school day. School is much more boring than the real world in my experience. At least in college I was choosing to be there and could mostly just take the classes I was interested in.

Teachers have projects, group work, presentations, discussions, walk-through, simulations, labs, guest speakers, field trips, etc. We are finding that none of it can compete with smartphones for many of our students. It was sad seeing every kid glued to a smartphone on a recent field trip to a pretty cool place.

I am the poster quoted here and I am with you on smartphones. My kid doesn't have one.

[Anonymous]

I think that at the high school level having weekend or night classes would help solve the issue of kids who have work/family obligations and choose to skip. There are plenty of low income students who need to work to help their families so being more realistic about a school pathway for these students would really be helpful. I remember when night school/Saturday school was a thing for students who needed to just take basic core classes. I also think that solving the safety issues at school would help. At a start we need a school staffed to deal with students who pose a physical risk to other students. Again in the past there were schools like this. It makes no sense that the same known to be violent students keep getting recycled between schools. Yes all kids deserve an education but not at the expense of student safety. I don’t think schools need to strive to be amusement park fun but they do need to be safe. It is reasonable for students to skip school if school is not safe. And, schools need remedial classes. It does no one any good for students to be in a class where they do not understand the content, and this will also lead to skipping.

[Anonymous]

I think there are a bunch of different problems being conflated and they all have different solutions.

One is that there is some degree of incorrect reporting.

Another is that there are kids who are very invested in school who make strategic decisions about skipping. Mine do this all the time. They might skip class if there is a sub; they know the teacher is offering just a study hall or watching a movie; it is a review for material they already know; or it is a teacher who just never teaches. When they skip these classes, it is typically because other teachers have assigned a LOT of work and so they are trying to catch up; they have been out sick and are trying to catch up; they have a big test and want the extra time for study. I did the same thing back in HS and I don't think it's a bad idea. It does seem like they have more classes that are just "nothing is going to happen today" classes than I did. My son has one class that is almost entirely independent study becuase the teacher doesn't seem to know the material and just gives the kids class time to work together to figure it out. When he wants to skip that because he's exhausted, I'm not going to force him to sit through that.

Then there's the kids with chronic illnesses, who are desperate for an education, but MCPS does very little to facilitate that for them. They are just considered chronically truant when they are dealing with serious chronic health conditions.

Then there's the kids that are really checked out of education and are ditching class to do....other stuff. These kids really need a better solution. Some of htem might just do better in a non-educational setting. Some might do better if they had a lot more social services support. Some might just need parents who really understand how little their kids are in class, so they can start to impose consequences.

I think until they break these numbers down into the different problems, it's hard to come up with a solution.

[Anonymous]

As usual, the SMOB has the most sober and common sense take on the issue:

Contrary to popular beliefs, adolescent minds can be pretty binary. Either it's required or it's not. And if it's required but there's no consequence if they don't meet the requirement, kids pretty quickly figure it's not actually required.

Adults have decided to stop being adults and have decided kids, who developmentally lack the ability to grasp the long-term effects of their choices and decisions, are best suited to make decisions that limit their potential and development in the long-run.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are PPs on this thread really role playing as parents of chronically absent kids?

We are saying that MCPS does not keep accurate records, and with absences being marked even when kids are in school (possibly late), the absence number might be inflated.

No one disputes that some kids are chronically absent, but
A. perhaps there are fewer chronically absent kids than MCPS thinks and
B. chronic absenteeism has to do with poverty and a troubled home life, which is not something schools can easily fix.

So this is all for nothing. Let's focus on more security in school (vaping detectors, weapons detectors, security officers), and a better caliber of teachers with a more rigorous curriculum, smaller classes and more textbooks.

They can do things like change the bus rules to a mile or less for HS, so kids aren't walking 2 miles, sometimes not in safe areas. That would help. They can also do more with things like clothing closets, food pantries, laundry facilities, etc. - school shouldn't be social services but it is worth it if it helps kids with the basic needs. Take away some of the barriers. Offer free lunch and breakfast to more students.

But, I think that a lot of kids are marked absent when they aren't. I track my kid through their phone and I know they are at school as I can see the tests and other things completed online. I gave up fixing it. Mine has been marked absent three times. (and yes, they could leave their phone at school and skip but they are too attached to their phone).

And that last paragraph with the security, teachers, rigorous curriculum, TEXTBOOKS, and also I'd add more supports for struggling students starting in elementary school. You need to catch and remediate very young as in 1-2nd grade so they don't fall behind and give up.

I agree with you that MCPS's attendance is absolutely inaccurate, but I don't think it's so inaccurate that we're overstating the problem. It is in fact true that too many kids are missing class and that their absence from class is putting them behind academically. It's not true for EVERY child but it's true for enough kids that we need to be concerned as a school system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that at the high school level having weekend or night classes would help solve the issue of kids who have work/family obligations and choose to skip. There are plenty of low income students who need to work to help their families so being more realistic about a school pathway for these students would really be helpful. I remember when night school/Saturday school was a thing for students who needed to just take basic core classes. I also think that solving the safety issues at school would help. At a start we need a school staffed to deal with students who pose a physical risk to other students. Again in the past there were schools like this. It makes no sense that the same known to be violent students keep getting recycled between schools. Yes all kids deserve an education but not at the expense of student safety. I don’t think schools need to strive to be amusement park fun but they do need to be safe. It is reasonable for students to skip school if school is not safe. And, schools need remedial classes. It does no one any good for students to be in a class where they do not understand the content, and this will also lead to skipping.

MCPS used to have night school, as was discussed in the board meeting. No one at the table seemed to know why MCPS did away with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For a lot of kids, anything other than video games and social media is “boring.” Teachers can’t compete with the dopamine rush from those. Not sure how some of these kids will make it in the real world.

We should gamify education and incorporate social elements so kids are engaged!! These dated low-tech methods just don't cut it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think there are a bunch of different problems being conflated and they all have different solutions.

One is that there is some degree of incorrect reporting.

Another is that there are kids who are very invested in school who make strategic decisions about skipping. Mine do this all the time. They might skip class if there is a sub; they know the teacher is offering just a study hall or watching a movie; it is a review for material they already know; or it is a teacher who just never teaches. When they skip these classes, it is typically because other teachers have assigned a LOT of work and so they are trying to catch up; they have been out sick and are trying to catch up; they have a big test and want the extra time for study. I did the same thing back in HS and I don't think it's a bad idea. It does seem like they have more classes that are just "nothing is going to happen today" classes than I did. My son has one class that is almost entirely independent study becuase the teacher doesn't seem to know the material and just gives the kids class time to work together to figure it out. When he wants to skip that because he's exhausted, I'm not going to force him to sit through that.

Then there's the kids with chronic illnesses, who are desperate for an education, but MCPS does very little to facilitate that for them. They are just considered chronically truant when they are dealing with serious chronic health conditions.

Then there's the kids that are really checked out of education and are ditching class to do....other stuff. These kids really need a better solution. Some of htem might just do better in a non-educational setting. Some might do better if they had a lot more social services support. Some might just need parents who really understand how little their kids are in class, so they can start to impose consequences.

I think until they break these numbers down into the different problems, it's hard to come up with a solution.

I think this is a really astute point. I would only add a category of kids who go on long trips with family mid year. I think for the most part those trips are valuable exposure to a different culture/language (often their own) that they can't get in school, so I don't really worry about those kids. It's the ones who are truly checked out that are a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think there are a bunch of different problems being conflated and they all have different solutions.

One is that there is some degree of incorrect reporting.

Another is that there are kids who are very invested in school who make strategic decisions about skipping. Mine do this all the time. They might skip class if there is a sub; they know the teacher is offering just a study hall or watching a movie; it is a review for material they already know; or it is a teacher who just never teaches. When they skip these classes, it is typically because other teachers have assigned a LOT of work and so they are trying to catch up; they have been out sick and are trying to catch up; they have a big test and want the extra time for study. I did the same thing back in HS and I don't think it's a bad idea. It does seem like they have more classes that are just "nothing is going to happen today" classes than I did. My son has one class that is almost entirely independent study becuase the teacher doesn't seem to know the material and just gives the kids class time to work together to figure it out. When he wants to skip that because he's exhausted, I'm not going to force him to sit through that.

Then there's the kids with chronic illnesses, who are desperate for an education, but MCPS does very little to facilitate that for them. They are just considered chronically truant when they are dealing with serious chronic health conditions.

Then there's the kids that are really checked out of education and are ditching class to do....other stuff. These kids really need a better solution. Some of htem might just do better in a non-educational setting. Some might do better if they had a lot more social services support. Some might just need parents who really understand how little their kids are in class, so they can start to impose consequences.

I think until they break these numbers down into the different problems, it's hard to come up with a solution.

The ability to analyze and break down complex problems in the way that you just did is not something MCPS leadership is capable of doing.

[Anonymous]

I think that a lot of kids are marked absent when they aren't. I track my kid through their phone and I know they are at school as I can see the tests and other things completed online. I gave up fixing it.

This is what we are saying. I know my daughter is at school. I repeatedly tried to correct it, and got tired of the stupidity of it all. It was never like this before this year. In trying to correct one issue, they created more.