Nate Silver: "Go to a state school"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:YOUR kids should go to community college then state school or better yet trade school…

My kids? Oh, they are at elite SLACs, Ivies, Georgetown, or UVA at worst.

Sounds like somebody is living a little too vicariously through their kids

Pretty sure pp you’re quoting was pointing out the hypocrisy that accompanies this advice the vast majority of the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.natesilver.net/p/go-to-a-state-school

I don't always agree with Nate Silver but I think he is spot on. I have interviewed several Ivy League grads that came across as entitled and coddled. I have to wonder if other hiring managers are seeing a similar trend.

When you come from a background like His, it doesn't matter which school you attended, you'll have no shortage of opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you like impacted courses of 250+ students taught by TAs, this advice is spot on.

Common Data Sets belie your assumption.

At Harvard, 90% of the instructors have the highest degree in their field. Many of those who don't are graduate students.

At U Virginia, 91% have the highest degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:people come in their 40s and decide (once it's apparent their kids can't get into the same schools they did), "those schools are so OVER"

meanwhile, those grads are more diverse than ever, more on FA, less privileged, have more work experience coming into college than a generation before, and (pre this TO blip) scored higher on every metric.

plenty of us thought the Yalies (etc) from the class of 1995 were arrogant blowhards. but these kids? I'd take them every day over the previous model of an Ivy League grad

+1

Silver is a gay man who does not have children although he is in a committed relationship. But at age 46 I doubt kids are in his future. In other words, he doesn't have a stake in future college admissions.

Unfortunately for the rest of that comment, the Harvard lawsuit revealed a great deal of juicy data about admissions as well as student demographics. The Ivy League schools are much more dimorphic today than 20 or 30 years ago, increasingly a story of either full pay wealthy students from connected families or full financial aid kids meeting the diversity targets (first gen/racial minorities etc). Silver touched on this to some extent in his post and there's also been conversations in quieter areas about the outcomes of this pattern. One certainly is whether the extensive diversity outreach is translating into the same caliber of graduates as previous generations. I'd politely agree the jury is still out but there's also anecdotal experiences and observations that the answer is probably no. One of the more interesting commentaries I did read during the summer of 2020 was about the frustrations of many minority elite college graduates once they hit the real world, whether post college or post law school, and couldn't figure out why they weren't succeeding the way their white or Asian classmates were, and how this frustration helped fuel the BLM movement and the sudden focus on "systematic" racism rather than blatant racism. This phenomena can also be considered part of the "elite overproduction," a real life social phenomena that has been studied in various societies and typically with not very good outcomes.

Interestingly enough, a number of the elite colleges recently shifted back to test required rather than optional, which was telling it its own way.

[Anonymous]

One of the more interesting commentaries I did read during the summer of 2020 was about the frustrations of many minority elite college graduates once they hit the real world, whether post college or post law school, and couldn't figure out why they weren't succeeding the way their white or Asian classmates were, and how this frustration helped fuel the BLM movement and the sudden focus on "systematic" racism rather than blatant racism. This phenomena can also be considered part of the "elite overproduction," a real life social phenomena that has been studied in various societies and typically with not very good outcomes.

"Commentary" aka someone's BS agenda to minimize these schools and their grads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Double Ivy grad. Hiring manager at major consulting firm. Agree with everything Silver said. Everything is spot on.

It's not the 1990s any more. Most parents with kids heading to college won't realize how much higher education has changed since their days, especially at elite schools. Even if the name of the classes look familiar, how those classes are taught is hugely different now and far more ideologically slanted.

Our best associates and analyst these days are from major state schools but there's also a place for the good and solid LACs too, so don't lose hope.

BigLaw hiring says otherwise.
https://lawschooli.com/best-law-schools-for-biglaw/

Those are law schools.

Where did the students at those schools go to undergrad? Did they all come from Ivies?

Not even a majority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you like impacted courses of 250+ students taught by TAs, this advice is spot on.

That’s the coddled part he was talking about

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.natesilver.net/p/go-to-a-state-school

I don't always agree with Nate Silver but I think he is spot on. I have interviewed several Ivy League grads that came across as entitled and coddled. I have to wonder if other hiring managers are seeing a similar trend.

All we have to do is look at what's going on in the news on some of these "elite" college campuses to know for a fact that those students are indeed entitled and coddled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Double Ivy grad. Hiring manager at major consulting firm. Agree with everything Silver said. Everything is spot on.

It's not the 1990s any more. Most parents with kids heading to college won't realize how much higher education has changed since their days, especially at elite schools. Even if the name of the classes look familiar, how those classes are taught is hugely different now and far more ideologically slanted.

Our best associates and analyst these days are from major state schools but there's also a place for the good and solid LACs too, so don't lose hope.

BigLaw hiring says otherwise.
https://lawschooli.com/best-law-schools-for-biglaw/

Those are law schools.

Where did the students at those schools go to undergrad? Did they all come from Ivies?

Not even a majority.

Well there are only 8 Ivies, so the other 4000 colleges in the US are sure to land a few grads at top law schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you like impacted courses of 250+ students taught by TAs, this advice is spot on.

I see this TA argument quite a bit. Wonder if schools are changing. DS is finishing up his first year at UMD and hasn't had a single TA. They may lead a separate discussion or grade assignments but they aren't lecturers.

+1
Same experience at VT. My DC has had zero TAs teaching classes. Lots of sweeping statements about state schools by people who don't have a clue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you like impacted courses of 250+ students taught by TAs, this advice is spot on.

Or go to schools with tiny class sizes taught by adjuncts who are also teaching at the cc down the road.

So true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Double Ivy grad. Hiring manager at major consulting firm. Agree with everything Silver said. Everything is spot on.

It's not the 1990s any more. Most parents with kids heading to college won't realize how much higher education has changed since their days, especially at elite schools. Even if the name of the classes look familiar, how those classes are taught is hugely different now and far more ideologically slanted.

Our best associates and analyst these days are from major state schools but there's also a place for the good and solid LACs too, so don't lose hope.

BigLaw hiring says otherwise.
https://lawschooli.com/best-law-schools-for-biglaw/

DP. This is from 2021 - you know, before students at Stanford Law and YLS (among others) made such hideous fools of themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:people come in their 40s and decide (once it's apparent their kids can't get into the same schools they did), "those schools are so OVER"

meanwhile, those grads are more diverse than ever, more on FA, less privileged, have more work experience coming into college than a generation before, and (pre this TO blip) scored higher on every metric.

plenty of us thought the Yalies (etc) from the class of 1995 were arrogant blowhards. but these kids? I'd take them every day over the previous model of an Ivy League grad

+1

Silver is a gay man who does not have children although he is in a committed relationship. But at age 46 I doubt kids are in his future. In other words, he doesn't have a stake in future college admissions.

Unfortunately for the rest of that comment, the Harvard lawsuit revealed a great deal of juicy data about admissions as well as student demographics. The Ivy League schools are much more dimorphic today than 20 or 30 years ago, increasingly a story of either full pay wealthy students from connected families or full financial aid kids meeting the diversity targets (first gen/racial minorities etc). Silver touched on this to some extent in his post and there's also been conversations in quieter areas about the outcomes of this pattern. One certainly is whether the extensive diversity outreach is translating into the same caliber of graduates as previous generations. I'd politely agree the jury is still out but there's also anecdotal experiences and observations that the answer is probably no. One of the more interesting commentaries I did read during the summer of 2020 was about the frustrations of many minority elite college graduates once they hit the real world, whether post college or post law school, and couldn't figure out why they weren't succeeding the way their white or Asian classmates were, and how this frustration helped fuel the BLM movement and the sudden focus on "systematic" racism rather than blatant racism. This phenomena can also be considered part of the "elite overproduction," a real life social phenomena that has been studied in various societies and typically with not very good outcomes.

Interestingly enough, a number of the elite colleges recently shifted back to test required rather than optional, which was telling it its own way.

Wow, your bias is showing, much as you'd like to disguise it in academic sounding syntax.

Also, your "dimorphic" claim is not accurate to current experience. Many MC/UMC students at Ivies are on partial FA. 20-30 years ago, financial aid wasn't great for anyone and not enough for most high need students to actually attend. So, now aid is better (for all tiers), you want to question the quality of the small percentage of URM students tacitly linking them to "poor" status and somehow a dubious student caliber. SMH. The lengths people will go to to justify racism and classism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:people come in their 40s and decide (once it's apparent their kids can't get into the same schools they did), "those schools are so OVER"

meanwhile, those grads are more diverse than ever, more on FA, less privileged, have more work experience coming into college than a generation before, and (pre this TO blip) scored higher on every metric.

plenty of us thought the Yalies (etc) from the class of 1995 were arrogant blowhards. but these kids? I'd take them every day over the previous model of an Ivy League grad

+1

Silver is a gay man who does not have children although he is in a committed relationship. But at age 46 I doubt kids are in his future. In other words, he doesn't have a stake in future college admissions.

Unfortunately for the rest of that comment, the Harvard lawsuit revealed a great deal of juicy data about admissions as well as student demographics. The Ivy League schools are much more dimorphic today than 20 or 30 years ago, increasingly a story of either full pay wealthy students from connected families or full financial aid kids meeting the diversity targets (first gen/racial minorities etc). Silver touched on this to some extent in his post and there's also been conversations in quieter areas about the outcomes of this pattern. One certainly is whether the extensive diversity outreach is translating into the same caliber of graduates as previous generations. I'd politely agree the jury is still out but there's also anecdotal experiences and observations that the answer is probably no. One of the more interesting commentaries I did read during the summer of 2020 was about the frustrations of many minority elite college graduates once they hit the real world, whether post college or post law school, and couldn't figure out why they weren't succeeding the way their white or Asian classmates were, and how this frustration helped fuel the BLM movement and the sudden focus on "systematic" racism rather than blatant racism. This phenomena can also be considered part of the "elite overproduction," a real life social phenomena that has been studied in various societies and typically with not very good outcomes.

Interestingly enough, a number of the elite colleges recently shifted back to test required rather than optional, which was telling it its own way.

far more full pay in 1990.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Double Ivy grad. Hiring manager at major consulting firm. Agree with everything Silver said. Everything is spot on.

It's not the 1990s any more. Most parents with kids heading to college won't realize how much higher education has changed since their days, especially at elite schools. Even if the name of the classes look familiar, how those classes are taught is hugely different now and far more ideologically slanted.

Our best associates and analyst these days are from major state schools but there's also a place for the good and solid LACs too, so don't lose hope.

I call bullsh*t. Most consultants are clowns, but MBB is still running to recruit at HSY and will only take the very, very topped ranked at Flagship State University.