Why 5s on the a bunch of APs doesn't move the needle anymore

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So many schools don't even accept them as credits any more. It's really not worth the trouble unless you are going to a large public school - think VA Tech or UMD etc. Smaller more competitive schools do not take 5's as credits.

Urban myth. There are 8 schools that don’t take them at all…the rest give credit in different amounts. Credit at top schools leans towards STEM and language only.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid reported 5s on all 4 AP exams this Fall. He will have 7 APs total.

His school does not have APs Freshmen year and there are prerequisites to get into APs (need Honors Bio before AP Bio, etc).

5s in Euro Hist, Bio, Eng lang & APUSH.

He has received zero rejections so far. 7 college acceptances --all T25 and better. A few 5% acceptance rate schools.

I'm not sure if this factored in, but also reported a 35ACT (36V/R) one sitting. All As.

I definitely think for the high stat schools--the more 'proof' you can provide it definitely helps.

Those are fabulous results. Did you employ outside tutors to help with any of this?

No. He had a few weeks of ACT test prep, but that was the only outside help.

We reviewed his essays/supplemental/common app. I did a TOOONNNN of research his junior year. Fwiw, I've never used a realtor to buy homes, etc. I think I can do a better job..lol.

What about the AP exams? Any prep for that? Statistically only 14% of AP takers get a 5 so this is unusual.

AP Exams are far more straightforward than ACT/SAT. At my kid's school they finish the content by mid-April and then spend 2-3 weeks prepping for the actual exam. Also, homework and tests are done in "AP test" format, so you are getting used to the test all year. Kids will often take at least one full practice test and the teacher will grade it according to AP rubrics.

There are no "trick" questions, nor will say the AP US History test decide this year 90% of the test will be on US History from 1492-1600 just to trip up everyone.

There is little need for 3rd party AP prep if your HS prepares you well.

... and yet, they still are not going to give 5s to more than a small percentage of students. They just don't.

They give as many 5s as kids who hit a certain grade. If everyone scored a 90 on the AP rubric they would all get 5s.

They would probably change the next year’s test if that happened, but there is no quota.

Not sure I understand your point.

Exactly this. Some tests have more 5s over time. Like BC calc and that's most likely because only the kids most advanced in math get there---you have to be 1-2 grade levels ahead in math starting in MS to get there. So you've already eliminated the general population just trying it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many schools don't even accept them as credits any more. It's really not worth the trouble unless you are going to a large public school - think VA Tech or UMD etc. Smaller more competitive schools do not take 5's as credits.

Urban myth. There are 8 schools that don’t take them at all…the rest give credit in different amounts. Credit at top schools leans towards STEM and language only.

BS - My kid at Duke - 3 5's - no credit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many schools don't even accept them as credits any more. It's really not worth the trouble unless you are going to a large public school - think VA Tech or UMD etc. Smaller more competitive schools do not take 5's as credits.

Urban myth. There are 8 schools that don’t take them at all…the rest give credit in different amounts. Credit at top schools leans towards STEM and language only.

I have to think there are more than 8 that don't take AP scores. My kids' top 20 LAC doesn't take them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many schools don't even accept them as credits any more. It's really not worth the trouble unless you are going to a large public school - think VA Tech or UMD etc. Smaller more competitive schools do not take 5's as credits.

Urban myth. There are 8 schools that don’t take them at all…the rest give credit in different amounts. Credit at top schools leans towards STEM and language only.

I have to think there are more than 8 that don't take AP scores. My kids' top 20 LAC doesn't take them.

The schools are Harvard, Amherst, Dartmouth, Brown, Caltech, Williams, Duke…and I can’t find the last one.

Go to the AP site and search many top schools under their credit policy search…Princeton, Stanford, MIT and all others accept APs for some classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many schools don't even accept them as credits any more. It's really not worth the trouble unless you are going to a large public school - think VA Tech or UMD etc. Smaller more competitive schools do not take 5's as credits.

Urban myth. There are 8 schools that don’t take them at all…the rest give credit in different amounts. Credit at top schools leans towards STEM and language only.

I have to think there are more than 8 that don't take AP scores. My kids' top 20 LAC doesn't take them.

The schools are Harvard, Amherst, Dartmouth, Brown, Caltech, Williams, Duke…and I can’t find the last one.

Go to the AP site and search many top schools under their credit policy search…Princeton, Stanford, MIT and all others accept APs for some classes.

Harvey Mudd

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many schools don't even accept them as credits any more. It's really not worth the trouble unless you are going to a large public school - think VA Tech or UMD etc. Smaller more competitive schools do not take 5's as credits.

Urban myth. There are 8 schools that don’t take them at all…the rest give credit in different amounts. Credit at top schools leans towards STEM and language only.

Top schools don't want to lose tuition money to award kids a full year of credit....and truthfully it's not completely clear to me they all represent "college level" work as there is not real definition of that. Maybe math where calculus is a credit course but it's all a very mushy definition and college course vary in content at different colleges....

[Anonymous]

You don't have to get 90% to get a 5 in an exam. More often than not it is over 75 or 76% in the multiple choice and a strong essay (subjects pending, obviously).
They simply are not graded on the same scale are regular homework and tests within a HS setting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many schools don't even accept them as credits any more. It's really not worth the trouble unless you are going to a large public school - think VA Tech or UMD etc. Smaller more competitive schools do not take 5's as credits.

Urban myth. There are 8 schools that don’t take them at all…the rest give credit in different amounts. Credit at top schools leans towards STEM and language only.

BS - My kid at Duke - 3 5's - no credit.

https://trinity.duke.edu/undergraduate/academic-policies/AP-credit-by-department

https://bluebook.duke.edu/first-year-students/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/05/202122-AP-Chart.pdf

[Anonymous]

So what's the resolution?

[Anonymous]

Not all APs are alike. There are harder versus easier ones. Plus the percentage of 5s from certain subjects vary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid reported 5s on all 4 AP exams this Fall. He will have 7 APs total.

His school does not have APs Freshmen year and there are prerequisites to get into APs (need Honors Bio before AP Bio, etc).

5s in Euro Hist, Bio, Eng lang & APUSH.

He has received zero rejections so far. 7 college acceptances --all T25 and better. A few 5% acceptance rate schools.

I'm not sure if this factored in, but also reported a 35ACT (36V/R) one sitting. All As.

I definitely think for the high stat schools--the more 'proof' you can provide it definitely helps.

Those are fabulous results. Did you employ outside tutors to help with any of this?

No. He had a few weeks of ACT test prep, but that was the only outside help.

We reviewed his essays/supplemental/common app. I did a TOOONNNN of research his junior year. Fwiw, I've never used a realtor to buy homes, etc. I think I can do a better job..lol.

What about the AP exams? Any prep for that? Statistically only 14% of AP takers get a 5 so this is unusual.

AP Exams are far more straightforward than ACT/SAT. At my kid's school they finish the content by mid-April and then spend 2-3 weeks prepping for the actual exam. Also, homework and tests are done in "AP test" format, so you are getting used to the test all year. Kids will often take at least one full practice test and the teacher will grade it according to AP rubrics.

There are no "trick" questions, nor will say the AP US History test decide this year 90% of the test will be on US History from 1492-1600 just to trip up everyone.

There is little need for 3rd party AP prep if your HS prepares you well.

... and yet, they still are not going to give 5s to more than a small percentage of students. They just don't.

They give as many 5s as kids who hit a certain grade. If everyone scored a 90 on the AP rubric they would all get 5s.

They would probably change the next year’s test if that happened, but there is no quota.

Not sure I understand your point.

If everyone were hitting 5s they'd make the test harder, but they know what to expect, and so it is already calibrated to make sure there will be a small percentage of 5s -- and the essays are graded partially subjectively, so they can control this on the non-math tests. If everyone scored a 90, the test would lose its significance, so it isn't going to happen. The highest percentages of 5s are in the self-selecting hardest courses where they are not going to penalize test takers for taking the hardest class.

It isn't exact, but they try to keep it level year to year. Consider the most popular test: APUSH. Here is a chart of the scores over 5 years. Very little fluctuation in percentages, and you can see the hard correct after 2020, but even that was still a low percentage of 5s.

https://collegeprep.uworld.com/ap-us-history/scores-and-calculator/#:~:text=58.7%25%20of%20students%20scored%20a,success%20rate%20falling%20to%2048%25.

Yes, I understand. However, there is no quota. It isn’t scaled like the SAT.

Also, the 89%ile on the SAT is around a 1320. I didn’t say you don’t need a HS that teaches the course well in order to do well.

There is a pretty direct correlation with HS average SAT scores and how well their students perform on AP tests.

I don't think this is correct. If the link above is to be believed, they do curve AP tests:
"In order to maintain the integrity and reliability of the scoring process, the College Board curves AP exams annually; AP U.S. History is no exception. The goal of curving is to make sure that a particular score (such as a 4 or a 5) represents the same level of achievement across different versions and years of the exam. This is important because AP exams can have multiple versions with slightly varying questions, and the difficulty of the questions can vary from one year to another."

[Anonymous]

It moves the needle less now because there are more APs that are easier now:
Common public school top5% kids have:
APHuG(9)
APPsych(10)
APusgov(10)-semester
APcompargov(10)-semester
APCalcAB(11)
APEng(11)
APspan(11)(spanish finishes early in that hs)
APush(11)
Apbio(11)
(Some would have done 2 sci in 11 so would also have apphys1 or APChem) This is a real schedule. There are 20 or more kids out of 350 who have similar every yr and most go to uva but not many get into T10s

Whereas privates dont offer the early and easy APs so only 1-2 kids every yr would get to an impressive list. Had to have doubled up science and is ahead of top math track could get to 8(real schedule):

ApStat(9) (coreq with honPrecal, very rare to qualify in 9th)
APChem(10)
APphys1(10)
AP calcAB(10)
APEngLit(11)
APUSH(11)
APphysC(11)
APBCcalc(11)

THIS wall of straight 5s by the end of 11th is rare and still moves the needle. The couple each year who do it and have all As usually get into a top10 or ivy (school pushes ED for all)and some even get in to multiple top-10/ivies in RD .

[Anonymous]

The number of students taking over 10 AP in high school increased 3 times over the last 10 years.

https://reports.collegeboard.org/media/doc/number-of-ap-exams-per-student-2022.doc