Why 5s on the a bunch of APs doesn't move the needle anymore

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid reported 5s on all 4 AP exams this Fall. He will have 7 APs total.

His school does not have APs Freshmen year and there are prerequisites to get into APs (need Honors Bio before AP Bio, etc).

5s in Euro Hist, Bio, Eng lang & APUSH.

He has received zero rejections so far. 7 college acceptances --all T25 and better. A few 5% acceptance rate schools.

I'm not sure if this factored in, but also reported a 35ACT (36V/R) one sitting. All As.

I definitely think for the high stat schools--the more 'proof' you can provide it definitely helps.

Those are fabulous results. Did you employ outside tutors to help with any of this?

No. He had a few weeks of ACT test prep, but that was the only outside help.

We reviewed his essays/supplemental/common app. I did a TOOONNNN of research his junior year. Fwiw, I've never used a realtor to buy homes, etc. I think I can do a better job..lol.

What about the AP exams? Any prep for that? Statistically only 14% of AP takers get a 5 so this is unusual.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid reported 5s on all 4 AP exams this Fall. He will have 7 APs total.

His school does not have APs Freshmen year and there are prerequisites to get into APs (need Honors Bio before AP Bio, etc).

5s in Euro Hist, Bio, Eng lang & APUSH.

He has received zero rejections so far. 7 college acceptances --all T25 and better. A few 5% acceptance rate schools.

I'm not sure if this factored in, but also reported a 35ACT (36V/R) one sitting. All As.

I definitely think for the high stat schools--the more 'proof' you can provide it definitely helps.

Those are fabulous results. Did you employ outside tutors to help with any of this?

No. He had a few weeks of ACT test prep, but that was the only outside help.

We reviewed his essays/supplemental/common app. I did a TOOONNNN of research his junior year. Fwiw, I've never used a realtor to buy homes, etc. I think I can do a better job..lol.

What about the AP exams? Any prep for that? Statistically only 14% of AP takers get a 5 so this is unusual.

AP Exams are far more straightforward than ACT/SAT. At my kid's school they finish the content by mid-April and then spend 2-3 weeks prepping for the actual exam. Also, homework and tests are done in "AP test" format, so you are getting used to the test all year. Kids will often take at least one full practice test and the teacher will grade it according to AP rubrics.

There are no "trick" questions, nor will say the AP US History test decide this year 90% of the test will be on US History from 1492-1600 just to trip up everyone.

There is little need for 3rd party AP prep if your HS prepares you well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid reported 5s on all 4 AP exams this Fall. He will have 7 APs total.

His school does not have APs Freshmen year and there are prerequisites to get into APs (need Honors Bio before AP Bio, etc).

5s in Euro Hist, Bio, Eng lang & APUSH.

He has received zero rejections so far. 7 college acceptances --all T25 and better. A few 5% acceptance rate schools.

I'm not sure if this factored in, but also reported a 35ACT (36V/R) one sitting. All As.

I definitely think for the high stat schools--the more 'proof' you can provide it definitely helps.

Those are fabulous results. Did you employ outside tutors to help with any of this?

No. He had a few weeks of ACT test prep, but that was the only outside help.

We reviewed his essays/supplemental/common app. I did a TOOONNNN of research his junior year. Fwiw, I've never used a realtor to buy homes, etc. I think I can do a better job..lol.

What about the AP exams? Any prep for that? Statistically only 14% of AP takers get a 5 so this is unusual.

AP Exams are far more straightforward than ACT/SAT. At my kid's school they finish the content by mid-April and then spend 2-3 weeks prepping for the actual exam. Also, homework and tests are done in "AP test" format, so you are getting used to the test all year. Kids will often take at least one full practice test and the teacher will grade it according to AP rubrics.

There are no "trick" questions, nor will say the AP US History test decide this year 90% of the test will be on US History from 1492-1600 just to trip up everyone.

There is little need for 3rd party AP prep if your HS prepares you well.

That's a good system. My DD has an AP Bio teacher this year who looks like she won't even cover the basic content by the time the exams are scheduled. I think she will have omitted 2 or 3 units. She did the same thing last year and the school does nothing about it. We got her a Bio Professor to assist, so at least there's that to make up the absence of school prep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid reported 5s on all 4 AP exams this Fall. He will have 7 APs total.

His school does not have APs Freshmen year and there are prerequisites to get into APs (need Honors Bio before AP Bio, etc).

5s in Euro Hist, Bio, Eng lang & APUSH.

He has received zero rejections so far. 7 college acceptances --all T25 and better. A few 5% acceptance rate schools.

I'm not sure if this factored in, but also reported a 35ACT (36V/R) one sitting. All As.

I definitely think for the high stat schools--the more 'proof' you can provide it definitely helps.

Those are fabulous results. Did you employ outside tutors to help with any of this?

No. He had a few weeks of ACT test prep, but that was the only outside help.

We reviewed his essays/supplemental/common app. I did a TOOONNNN of research his junior year. Fwiw, I've never used a realtor to buy homes, etc. I think I can do a better job..lol.

What about the AP exams? Any prep for that? Statistically only 14% of AP takers get a 5 so this is unusual.

No. No tutors or prep. His teachers did a great job of preparing him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid reported 5s on all 4 AP exams this Fall. He will have 7 APs total.

His school does not have APs Freshmen year and there are prerequisites to get into APs (need Honors Bio before AP Bio, etc).

5s in Euro Hist, Bio, Eng lang & APUSH.

He has received zero rejections so far. 7 college acceptances --all T25 and better. A few 5% acceptance rate schools.

I'm not sure if this factored in, but also reported a 35ACT (36V/R) one sitting. All As.

I definitely think for the high stat schools--the more 'proof' you can provide it definitely helps.

Those are fabulous results. Did you employ outside tutors to help with any of this?

No. He had a few weeks of ACT test prep, but that was the only outside help.

We reviewed his essays/supplemental/common app. I did a TOOONNNN of research his junior year. Fwiw, I've never used a realtor to buy homes, etc. I think I can do a better job..lol.

What about the AP exams? Any prep for that? Statistically only 14% of AP takers get a 5 so this is unusual.

No. No tutors or prep. His teachers did a great job of preparing him.

School doesn’t have a retake policy and it’s really rigorous to get As in the class itself. I think when you get an A in the course and bomb the AP exam it says something about grade inflation—and really calls into question the claim that allowing multiple retakes helps with mastery of the material.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The whole concept of AP is that it is supposed to be a college level class. It should be at least restricted to juniors and seniors. 9th and 10th graders taking "AP" is ridiculous.

College classes have been so dumbed down that a 9th grader could easily take them today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole concept of AP is that it is supposed to be a college level class. It should be at least restricted to juniors and seniors. 9th and 10th graders taking "AP" is ridiculous.

College classes have been so dumbed down that a 9th grader could easily take them today.

and they do...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid reported 5s on all 4 AP exams this Fall. He will have 7 APs total.

His school does not have APs Freshmen year and there are prerequisites to get into APs (need Honors Bio before AP Bio, etc).

5s in Euro Hist, Bio, Eng lang & APUSH.

He has received zero rejections so far. 7 college acceptances --all T25 and better. A few 5% acceptance rate schools.

I'm not sure if this factored in, but also reported a 35ACT (36V/R) one sitting. All As.

I definitely think for the high stat schools--the more 'proof' you can provide it definitely helps.

Those are fabulous results. Did you employ outside tutors to help with any of this?

No. He had a few weeks of ACT test prep, but that was the only outside help.

We reviewed his essays/supplemental/common app. I did a TOOONNNN of research his junior year. Fwiw, I've never used a realtor to buy homes, etc. I think I can do a better job..lol.

What about the AP exams? Any prep for that? Statistically only 14% of AP takers get a 5 so this is unusual.

AP Exams are far more straightforward than ACT/SAT. At my kid's school they finish the content by mid-April and then spend 2-3 weeks prepping for the actual exam. Also, homework and tests are done in "AP test" format, so you are getting used to the test all year. Kids will often take at least one full practice test and the teacher will grade it according to AP rubrics.

There are no "trick" questions, nor will say the AP US History test decide this year 90% of the test will be on US History from 1492-1600 just to trip up everyone.

There is little need for 3rd party AP prep if your HS prepares you well.

That's a good system. My DD has an AP Bio teacher this year who looks like she won't even cover the basic content by the time the exams are scheduled. I think she will have omitted 2 or 3 units. She did the same thing last year and the school does nothing about it. We got her a Bio Professor to assist, so at least there's that to make up the absence of school prep.

There’s a ton of stuff online now — good AP teachers that posted review videos during the pandemic or after. My kid had a couple teachers that were not totally covering the material so we bought the Barton’s book and they watched some online videos. We learned our lesson after the pandemic year in which kid did not prep and lid got a 3 on that AP where the teacher hadn’t prepared them. It is relatively low cost and low time to get the practice book and just make sure the teacher didn’t miss anything, if you are worried that they did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of mine had 16 APs with all 5s, also great GPA and SAT, still didn't move the needle at even one ivy out of 5 he applied to. Admissions are an enigma.

Walls of 5s…doesn’t move the needle….rejected at Duke too?

[Anonymous]

I think when we hear of tippy top ("Wall of 5") types getting rejected from selective schools, folks are way too quick to say, "OMG a kid like yours is a dime a dozen!! EVERYONE has those scores!!"

No. Not so..... mostly the reason is BS institutional priorities bringing in objectively less talented people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid reported 5s on all 4 AP exams this Fall. He will have 7 APs total.

His school does not have APs Freshmen year and there are prerequisites to get into APs (need Honors Bio before AP Bio, etc).

5s in Euro Hist, Bio, Eng lang & APUSH.

He has received zero rejections so far. 7 college acceptances --all T25 and better. A few 5% acceptance rate schools.

I'm not sure if this factored in, but also reported a 35ACT (36V/R) one sitting. All As.

I definitely think for the high stat schools--the more 'proof' you can provide it definitely helps.

Those are fabulous results. Did you employ outside tutors to help with any of this?

No. He had a few weeks of ACT test prep, but that was the only outside help.

We reviewed his essays/supplemental/common app. I did a TOOONNNN of research his junior year. Fwiw, I've never used a realtor to buy homes, etc. I think I can do a better job..lol.

What about the AP exams? Any prep for that? Statistically only 14% of AP takers get a 5 so this is unusual.

AP Exams are far more straightforward than ACT/SAT. At my kid's school they finish the content by mid-April and then spend 2-3 weeks prepping for the actual exam. Also, homework and tests are done in "AP test" format, so you are getting used to the test all year. Kids will often take at least one full practice test and the teacher will grade it according to AP rubrics.

There are no "trick" questions, nor will say the AP US History test decide this year 90% of the test will be on US History from 1492-1600 just to trip up everyone.

There is little need for 3rd party AP prep if your HS prepares you well.

... and yet, they still are not going to give 5s to more than a small percentage of students. They just don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid reported 5s on all 4 AP exams this Fall. He will have 7 APs total.

His school does not have APs Freshmen year and there are prerequisites to get into APs (need Honors Bio before AP Bio, etc).

5s in Euro Hist, Bio, Eng lang & APUSH.

He has received zero rejections so far. 7 college acceptances --all T25 and better. A few 5% acceptance rate schools.

I'm not sure if this factored in, but also reported a 35ACT (36V/R) one sitting. All As.

I definitely think for the high stat schools--the more 'proof' you can provide it definitely helps.

Those are fabulous results. Did you employ outside tutors to help with any of this?

No. He had a few weeks of ACT test prep, but that was the only outside help.

We reviewed his essays/supplemental/common app. I did a TOOONNNN of research his junior year. Fwiw, I've never used a realtor to buy homes, etc. I think I can do a better job..lol.

What about the AP exams? Any prep for that? Statistically only 14% of AP takers get a 5 so this is unusual.

AP Exams are far more straightforward than ACT/SAT. At my kid's school they finish the content by mid-April and then spend 2-3 weeks prepping for the actual exam. Also, homework and tests are done in "AP test" format, so you are getting used to the test all year. Kids will often take at least one full practice test and the teacher will grade it according to AP rubrics.

There are no "trick" questions, nor will say the AP US History test decide this year 90% of the test will be on US History from 1492-1600 just to trip up everyone.

There is little need for 3rd party AP prep if your HS prepares you well.

... and yet, they still are not going to give 5s to more than a small percentage of students. They just don't.

They give as many 5s as kids who hit a certain grade. If everyone scored a 90 on the AP rubric they would all get 5s.

They would probably change the next year’s test if that happened, but there is no quota.

Not sure I understand your point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid reported 5s on all 4 AP exams this Fall. He will have 7 APs total.

His school does not have APs Freshmen year and there are prerequisites to get into APs (need Honors Bio before AP Bio, etc).

5s in Euro Hist, Bio, Eng lang & APUSH.

He has received zero rejections so far. 7 college acceptances --all T25 and better. A few 5% acceptance rate schools.

I'm not sure if this factored in, but also reported a 35ACT (36V/R) one sitting. All As.

I definitely think for the high stat schools--the more 'proof' you can provide it definitely helps.

Those are fabulous results. Did you employ outside tutors to help with any of this?

No. He had a few weeks of ACT test prep, but that was the only outside help.

We reviewed his essays/supplemental/common app. I did a TOOONNNN of research his junior year. Fwiw, I've never used a realtor to buy homes, etc. I think I can do a better job..lol.

What about the AP exams? Any prep for that? Statistically only 14% of AP takers get a 5 so this is unusual.

AP Exams are far more straightforward than ACT/SAT. At my kid's school they finish the content by mid-April and then spend 2-3 weeks prepping for the actual exam. Also, homework and tests are done in "AP test" format, so you are getting used to the test all year. Kids will often take at least one full practice test and the teacher will grade it according to AP rubrics.

There are no "trick" questions, nor will say the AP US History test decide this year 90% of the test will be on US History from 1492-1600 just to trip up everyone.

There is little need for 3rd party AP prep if your HS prepares you well.

... and yet, they still are not going to give 5s to more than a small percentage of students. They just don't.

They give as many 5s as kids who hit a certain grade. If everyone scored a 90 on the AP rubric they would all get 5s.

They would probably change the next year’s test if that happened, but there is no quota.

Not sure I understand your point.

If everyone were hitting 5s they'd make the test harder, but they know what to expect, and so it is already calibrated to make sure there will be a small percentage of 5s -- and the essays are graded partially subjectively, so they can control this on the non-math tests. If everyone scored a 90, the test would lose its significance, so it isn't going to happen. The highest percentages of 5s are in the self-selecting hardest courses where they are not going to penalize test takers for taking the hardest class.

It isn't exact, but they try to keep it level year to year. Consider the most popular test: APUSH. Here is a chart of the scores over 5 years. Very little fluctuation in percentages, and you can see the hard correct after 2020, but even that was still a low percentage of 5s.

https://collegeprep.uworld.com/ap-us-history/scores-and-calculator/#:~:text=58.7%25%20of%20students%20scored%20a,success%20rate%20falling%20to%2048%25.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid reported 5s on all 4 AP exams this Fall. He will have 7 APs total.

His school does not have APs Freshmen year and there are prerequisites to get into APs (need Honors Bio before AP Bio, etc).

5s in Euro Hist, Bio, Eng lang & APUSH.

He has received zero rejections so far. 7 college acceptances --all T25 and better. A few 5% acceptance rate schools.

I'm not sure if this factored in, but also reported a 35ACT (36V/R) one sitting. All As.

I definitely think for the high stat schools--the more 'proof' you can provide it definitely helps.

Those are fabulous results. Did you employ outside tutors to help with any of this?

No. He had a few weeks of ACT test prep, but that was the only outside help.

We reviewed his essays/supplemental/common app. I did a TOOONNNN of research his junior year. Fwiw, I've never used a realtor to buy homes, etc. I think I can do a better job..lol.

What about the AP exams? Any prep for that? Statistically only 14% of AP takers get a 5 so this is unusual.

AP Exams are far more straightforward than ACT/SAT. At my kid's school they finish the content by mid-April and then spend 2-3 weeks prepping for the actual exam. Also, homework and tests are done in "AP test" format, so you are getting used to the test all year. Kids will often take at least one full practice test and the teacher will grade it according to AP rubrics.

There are no "trick" questions, nor will say the AP US History test decide this year 90% of the test will be on US History from 1492-1600 just to trip up everyone.

There is little need for 3rd party AP prep if your HS prepares you well.

... and yet, they still are not going to give 5s to more than a small percentage of students. They just don't.

They give as many 5s as kids who hit a certain grade. If everyone scored a 90 on the AP rubric they would all get 5s.

They would probably change the next year’s test if that happened, but there is no quota.

Not sure I understand your point.

If everyone were hitting 5s they'd make the test harder, but they know what to expect, and so it is already calibrated to make sure there will be a small percentage of 5s -- and the essays are graded partially subjectively, so they can control this on the non-math tests. If everyone scored a 90, the test would lose its significance, so it isn't going to happen. The highest percentages of 5s are in the self-selecting hardest courses where they are not going to penalize test takers for taking the hardest class.

It isn't exact, but they try to keep it level year to year. Consider the most popular test: APUSH. Here is a chart of the scores over 5 years. Very little fluctuation in percentages, and you can see the hard correct after 2020, but even that was still a low percentage of 5s.

https://collegeprep.uworld.com/ap-us-history/scores-and-calculator/#:~:text=58.7%25%20of%20students%20scored%20a,success%20rate%20falling%20to%2048%25.

Yes, I understand. However, there is no quota. It isn’t scaled like the SAT.

Also, the 89%ile on the SAT is around a 1320. I didn’t say you don’t need a HS that teaches the course well in order to do well.

There is a pretty direct correlation with HS average SAT scores and how well their students perform on AP tests.

[Anonymous]

So many schools don't even accept them as credits any more. It's really not worth the trouble unless you are going to a large public school - think VA Tech or UMD etc. Smaller more competitive schools do not take 5's as credits.