Why 5s on the a bunch of APs doesn't move the needle anymore

[Anonymous]

From New York: Inside the Craziest College-Admissions Season Ever
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/inside-the-craziest-college-admissions-season-ever.html

A decade ago, admissions officers at Duke regularly talked about a “wall of 5s” among applicants on Advanced Placement tests — the top score. “You’d just see this long list of eight or ten or 12 5s on AP scores,” Guttentag recalled. “That’s the sort of thing that would by itself have moved the needle and now doesn’t.” Only 14 percent of the 4.39 million AP tests administered last year were scored a 5, according to the College Board; only half of American public high schools even offer more than five AP courses. Yet the fact that they were so commonplace among Duke’s applicant pool didn’t seem to shock him.

[Anonymous]

Yes, 1/2 million 5's each year. If most high-performing kids take 2-3 exams per year then tens of thousands of kids are able to submit a "wall of 5s" by senior year!

[Anonymous]

I would expect that most kids admitted to a school in the top 1% would consistently score in the top 14% on standardized testing.

I would also expect that kids from schools in the top 50% of US high schools would be the majority of applicants to Duke.

Given that, it doesn’t surprise me that kids with lots of 5’s are well represented in the admissions pool.

[Anonymous]

Depends on where you live - here, tons of AP availability is the norm. In other places, not so much.

[Anonymous]

Like only less than 10% score 5s on many AP exams. I think more failed the history exams than anything else. They do show grade inflation,

My son scored a 5 on every single AP exam to date—Science, math, histories, English, etc.

He did submit all scores. We weee told some schools take them into account.

[Anonymous]

I think they matter even more now though if you don’t submit Sat or Act scores.

[Anonymous]

Not that unusual in Montgomery County. My Jr is taking 5 this year, so will have 8 completed by application time:

AP US Gov't
APUSH
AP Physics 1
AP Language
AP World History
AP Spanish Language
AP Calculus A/B
AP Environmental Science

Scheduled for 6 more next year.

[Anonymous]

But my child is in 10th at Basis and will have 7 APs by the end of this year and 4-6 more next year. Basis isn't typical, but they do have dozens of schools. How many students end up with all 5s I don't know - it's obviously a small portion.

[Anonymous]

My son took 11 APs. He had 8 when he was applying to colleges, I think. He got 5s on all of them. No idea if that was unusual at his school or not. DC public.

[Anonymous]

This is one rando "recalling" 10 years ago and tossing numbers off the top of his head. It's meaningless gossip, not actual statistics.

It's also extremely school correlated. While rare overall, it clusters at certain high schools like TJ.
As the article explains, students are competing primarily against their peers of the same school. So "not moving the needle by itself" means that it isn't a shocking Michael Jordan auto-admit outlier, like it was 25 years ago (when there were also fewer low end classes with the AP label). Meanwhile, kids without 8+ APs, not at magnet schools, are still getting admitted.

Overall, unenlightening article.

[Anonymous]

The whole concept of AP is that it is supposed to be a college level class. It should be at least restricted to juniors and seniors. 9th and 10th graders taking "AP" is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is one rando "recalling" 10 years ago and tossing numbers off the top of his head. It's meaningless gossip, not actual statistics.

It's also extremely school correlated. While rare overall, it clusters at certain high schools like TJ.
As the article explains, students are competing primarily against their peers of the same school. So "not moving the needle by itself" means that it isn't a shocking Michael Jordan auto-admit outlier, like it was 25 years ago (when there were also fewer low end classes with the AP label). Meanwhile, kids without 8+ APs, not at magnet schools, are still getting admitted.

Overall, unenlightening article.

Agreed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The whole concept of AP is that it is supposed to be a college level class. It should be at least restricted to juniors and seniors. 9th and 10th graders taking "AP" is ridiculous.

Nonsense. My 14 yr old DD took AP Gov't in 9th grade and got a 4 in the exam.

[Anonymous]

I agree that APs should be restricted to 11th and 12th grade, but that is not the current situation. Kids going for T25 colleges now routinely have 10-12 AP classes by the end of high school, and they have 7-9 by the end of junior year. This is a good objective way to show rigor, and it DOES HELP WITH COLLEGE ADMISSIONS.

Private schools with no AP classes are hurting their student's chances of college admission. This is because kids either need to self-study for APs on top of the crushing work-load at a Big 3 high school, or they end up with no or very few APs, which hurts them in college admissions relative to public school kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The whole concept of AP is that it is supposed to be a college level class. It should be at least restricted to juniors and seniors. 9th and 10th graders taking "AP" is ridiculous.

My 9th grader is taking Calc BC and crushing it. I can see that Calc (AB/BC) should be allowed for the right kid. But the writing heavy ones could be restricted to sophomores and above.