Biglaw Very Low Bonus for Pregnant Associate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, is there any harm in asking someone (IDK if it's HR or if there's a partner who manages your comp) what gives? That you know you didn't make your hours, but your experience has been that means a 25% hit, not a 75% hit (or whatever it was), and is there any message you're supposed to take away from that.

Was there any messaging with the bonus so far as what other Senior Associates got? I know when I get my bonus, there's some info about what the average increase was, % of comp, etc. and why I got what I got. I'm sure I don't know everything, but I did get dinged once and was able to claw back some of it.

Here’s the truth: if you do this and suggest convincingly that you’re just asking, eager to remain at the firm and meet your hours this years, etc. (i.e., lie), there is a small but nonzero chance the firm could make some kind of accommodation. If nothing else to avoid the headache of a pregnant woman complaining. Different firms have different levels of strictness about the books being closed once bonuses are out. You won’t get to 100% but they could give you something.

If you then leave shortly thereafter, every partner with knowledge of the situation will carry that with them the rest of your career. Maybe you’ll come across one of them in the future, maybe not. But you’ll never be able to ask them to put in a word for you, they’ll never recommend you for a role, or refer business to you. If they’re ever called by a third-party diligence firm when you’re up for something, they will say (on top of whatever the performance eval is) that you were dishonest.

Can’t imagine that’s worth $10k, but do with it what you will.

She can follow up with the bonus issue without explicitly stating that she is eager to remain at the firm. Same effect without being dishonest. If she has reason to believe she is entitled to more for her past work, she can and should follow up whether leaving or not. People don't think highly of you for being a chump. The fact that she is leaving mitigates the risk of blowback.

LOL, if you think asking for additional bonus followed by a departure won’t poison your reputation in biglaw, you shouldn’t be giving people advice. I’m a partner. Have been one at three large firms. You are dead wrong.

[Anonymous]

Why are people mean?

The joke is on the firm, OP because they are losing you and your talents. Enjoy tour new job and pregnancy. Chin up, head high. I think how you plan to leave is classy. You can still do exit interview and just say exactly what you said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are people mean?

The joke is on the firm, OP because they are losing you and your talents. Enjoy tour new job and pregnancy. Chin up, head high. I think how you plan to leave is classy. You can still do exit interview and just say exactly what you said.

The firm had decided, before pregnancy, that OP's work was not valuable to them. That's why OP wasn't getting enough work, and that's why her bonus is low. Both parties are getting what they ultimately want here. Not sure the issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are people mean?

The joke is on the firm, OP because they are losing you and your talents. Enjoy tour new job and pregnancy. Chin up, head high. I think how you plan to leave is classy. You can still do exit interview and just say exactly what you said.

The firm had decided, before pregnancy, that OP's work was not valuable to them. That's why OP wasn't getting enough work, and that's why her bonus is low. Both parties are getting what they ultimately want here. Not sure the issue.

That’s not likely true. And two current lawsuits say it isn’t. So please stop taking out your frustrations on this woman

[Anonymous]

Try being pregnant sometime and we can talk

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, is there any harm in asking someone (IDK if it's HR or if there's a partner who manages your comp) what gives? That you know you didn't make your hours, but your experience has been that means a 25% hit, not a 75% hit (or whatever it was), and is there any message you're supposed to take away from that.

Was there any messaging with the bonus so far as what other Senior Associates got? I know when I get my bonus, there's some info about what the average increase was, % of comp, etc. and why I got what I got. I'm sure I don't know everything, but I did get dinged once and was able to claw back some of it.

Here’s the truth: if you do this and suggest convincingly that you’re just asking, eager to remain at the firm and meet your hours this years, etc. (i.e., lie), there is a small but nonzero chance the firm could make some kind of accommodation. If nothing else to avoid the headache of a pregnant woman complaining. Different firms have different levels of strictness about the books being closed once bonuses are out. You won’t get to 100% but they could give you something.

If you then leave shortly thereafter, every partner with knowledge of the situation will carry that with them the rest of your career. Maybe you’ll come across one of them in the future, maybe not. But you’ll never be able to ask them to put in a word for you, they’ll never recommend you for a role, or refer business to you. If they’re ever called by a third-party diligence firm when you’re up for something, they will say (on top of whatever the performance eval is) that you were dishonest.

Can’t imagine that’s worth $10k, but do with it what you will.

She can follow up with the bonus issue without explicitly stating that she is eager to remain at the firm. Same effect without being dishonest. If she has reason to believe she is entitled to more for her past work, she can and should follow up whether leaving or not. People don't think highly of you for being a chump. The fact that she is leaving mitigates the risk of blowback.

LOL, if you think asking for additional bonus followed by a departure won’t poison your reputation in biglaw, you shouldn’t be giving people advice. I’m a partner. Have been one at three large firms. You are dead wrong.

You’re an unethical partner. Time to reup on the annual course.

Signed
Equity Partner

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are people mean?

The joke is on the firm, OP because they are losing you and your talents. Enjoy tour new job and pregnancy. Chin up, head high. I think how you plan to leave is classy. You can still do exit interview and just say exactly what you said.

The firm had decided, before pregnancy, that OP's work was not valuable to them. That's why OP wasn't getting enough work, and that's why her bonus is low. Both parties are getting what they ultimately want here. Not sure the issue.

You’re clearly projecting. Who stomped on your sand castle ahem bonus/partnership offer?

[Anonymous]

Lesson #1 for you dinosaurs. Do not threaten a woman, especially a pregnant woman, with bogus ostracism if she were to challenge the bonus decision that puts her at odds with her peers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lesson #1 for you dinosaurs. Do not threaten a woman, especially a pregnant woman, with bogus ostracism if she were to challenge the bonus decision that puts her at odds with her peers.

Yes. Quite so. This is a lesson that has been demonstrated.

We are all now trembling in fear that a semi-employed pregnant associate who didn’t meet her minimum hours requirement (and whom we don’t know) may request reconsideration of her bonus. At a firm we don’t work for.

What?

Honestly the OP, while seemingly immature and in need of some advice (which she received), has responded more or less reasonably. Probing for alternatives, what if I did this, etc. This one and maybe another who parachuted in to make this a women’s and/or trans rights issue? Bonkers.

[Anonymous]

I find it perversely humorous how many people are absolutely convinced this is a case of sexism based on available facts. The only fact that supports this notion is the poster is a woman and pregnant. There are ample facts, provided by the poster, that indicate it’s because she’s an underperformer who was looking for another job.

Yet, people are CONVINCED it’s sexism.

Conformation bias is a powerful force.

[Anonymous]

OP here following up after giving notice: the partners reacted with shock and asked if I could push back the start date of my new job. One partner even told me I had to put my ethical duties to clients above my personal career plans.

I provided the notice period suggested in the firm handbook. Even if shameless flattering myself, I’m not irreplaceable on any of my matters. Can any partners here comment on this weird reception to my departure? This is a v50 firm. Is it normal to be guilted about leaving for greener pastures after being stiffed on a bonus??? This was not my expectation after seeing many people come and go over the years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There’s of course in addition to the many cases in the link above, a lawsuit against DLA piper.

Why are you all so aggro at this associate? Go get yours

There is no link.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here following up after giving notice: the partners reacted with shock and asked if I could push back the start date of my new job. One partner even told me I had to put my ethical duties to clients above my personal career plans.

I provided the notice period suggested in the firm handbook. Even if shameless flattering myself, I’m not irreplaceable on any of my matters. Can any partners here comment on this weird reception to my departure? This is a v50 firm. Is it normal to be guilted about leaving for greener pastures after being stiffed on a bonus??? This was not my expectation after seeing many people come and go over the years.

Perfect opportunity to push for a cash incentive to give them more time. They want your labor they can pay for it...or not.

Also, partners have an ethical responsibility to have contingency plans in place so that's on them.

[Anonymous]

The small bonus was a message to you that you weren’t going to make the cut and it’s best to move on. Well, you got their message and are moving on. The jokes not on them as they are getting rid of a low performing employee without having to pay any severance. Don’t burn any bridges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here following up after giving notice: the partners reacted with shock and asked if I could push back the start date of my new job. One partner even told me I had to put my ethical duties to clients above my personal career plans.

I provided the notice period suggested in the firm handbook. Even if shameless flattering myself, I’m not irreplaceable on any of my matters. Can any partners here comment on this weird reception to my departure? This is a v50 firm. Is it normal to be guilted about leaving for greener pastures after being stiffed on a bonus??? This was not my expectation after seeing many people come and go over the years.

Personal service firms will always push back on the date because they need to transition the work and that is always a pain. But, if you are staying for the handbook period you are fine. And the partner who said put ethical duties before personal career goals is a sanctimonious idiot.