Biglaw Very Low Bonus for Pregnant Associate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a senior associate at a biglaw firm. I am also pregnant. This year my firm gave me only a very small bonus (like smaller than the first years get). I did just miss the criteria to get the BIG bonus, but in my experience the firm usually just discounts the bonus (by maybe 25%) for people who miss the criteria.

I suspect that the reason the firm got cheap on my bonus is that they think I can’t move anywhere while I’m pregnant. BUT—jokes on them—I have another job lined up. I am about to give notice. Should I be honest about my suspicion about the reason for my low bonus, or should I just move on?

OP - I promise you that your firm did not stiff you on your bonus because you're pregnant. I promise.

They stiffed you because you didn't hit your targets. If you're a mid or senior associate not hitting hours, that's the writing on the wall to the firm that you're not going to make partner -- which means the firm is already shifting to the mindset that they don't need to try and retain you. Nothing to do with your pregnancy.

Well, she did say “in my experience the firm usually just discounts the bonus (by maybe 25%) for people who miss the criteria.”. Why do you think she was treated differently?

Because sometimes people who just miss the cutoffs are valued associates who the firm wants to retain.
OP apparently doesn't fall into that category.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP since you already have a new job; why don’t you see if you can up your bonus by threatening to sue for discrimination? It’s easy to prove if others earned more in the same situation, but you got dinged for or while being preggo

I’m sick and tired of people being harsh on women

It's really difficult to be so wrong in such a short post. Congratulations, I guess.

[Anonymous]

Fact check by two Big Law partners. Something stinks here. Pregnancy is an issue. We would pay a bit more (in the first place we’d ensure a pregnant woman was in the ballpark of a peer with the same hours) to make this go away. OP, you go for it girl.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a senior associate at a biglaw firm. I am also pregnant. This year my firm gave me only a very small bonus (like smaller than the first years get). I did just miss the criteria to get the BIG bonus, but in my experience the firm usually just discounts the bonus (by maybe 25%) for people who miss the criteria.

I suspect that the reason the firm got cheap on my bonus is that they think I can’t move anywhere while I’m pregnant. BUT—jokes on them—I have another job lined up. I am about to give notice. Should I be honest about my suspicion about the reason for my low bonus, or should I just move on?

OP - I promise you that your firm did not stiff you on your bonus because you're pregnant. I promise.

They stiffed you because you didn't hit your targets. If you're a mid or senior associate not hitting hours, that's the writing on the wall to the firm that you're not going to make partner -- which means the firm is already shifting to the mindset that they don't need to try and retain you. Nothing to do with your pregnancy.

It doesn’t matter WHY they did it. It matters WHAT it looks like. Right? Perceived or real, and a vulnerable state. As long as she can prove she was treated differently than a non-pregnant peer with the similar hours, the law firm would be fing dumb not to make her whole. Non-disparagement included in the separation agreement.

Don’t be stupid OP. Get yours

[Anonymous]

She doesn't need to be made whole. She didn't meet the criteria for the large bonus so she didn't get one. She's whole. She was just hoping they would still give her a large bonus anyway which apparently they have in the past, according to her. No evidence was given that others similarly situated received more than she did this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She doesn't need to be made whole. She didn't meet the criteria for the large bonus so she didn't get one. She's whole. She was just hoping they would still give her a large bonus anyway which apparently they have in the past, according to her. No evidence was given that others similarly situated received more than she did this year.

You say that, but if she has any of that evidence which she says she does, the firm would be stupid not to pay. This happens every day

[Anonymous]

The chances the law firm didn’t treat her discriminatorily are slim

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a senior associate at a biglaw firm. I am also pregnant. This year my firm gave me only a very small bonus (like smaller than the first years get). I did just miss the criteria to get the BIG bonus, but in my experience the firm usually just discounts the bonus (by maybe 25%) for people who miss the criteria.

I suspect that the reason the firm got cheap on my bonus is that they think I can’t move anywhere while I’m pregnant. BUT—jokes on them—I have another job lined up. I am about to give notice. Should I be honest about my suspicion about the reason for my low bonus, or should I just move on?

OP - I promise you that your firm did not stiff you on your bonus because you're pregnant. I promise.

They stiffed you because you didn't hit your targets. If you're a mid or senior associate not hitting hours, that's the writing on the wall to the firm that you're not going to make partner -- which means the firm is already shifting to the mindset that they don't need to try and retain you. Nothing to do with your pregnancy.

It doesn’t matter WHY they did it. It matters WHAT it looks like. Right? Perceived or real, and a vulnerable state. As long as she can prove she was treated differently than a non-pregnant peer with the similar hours, the law firm would be fing dumb not to make her whole. Non-disparagement included in the separation agreement.

Don’t be stupid OP. Get yours

Plenty of strategic legal advice being dished out here by non-lawyers with no understanding of how biglaw works.

Go ahead and try to shake down your firm for the unpaid portion of your unearned bonus. See how that works out, and what it does for your career.

[Anonymous]

OP, is there any harm in asking someone (IDK if it's HR or if there's a partner who manages your comp) what gives? That you know you didn't make your hours, but your experience has been that means a 25% hit, not a 75% hit (or whatever it was), and is there any message you're supposed to take away from that.

Was there any messaging with the bonus so far as what other Senior Associates got? I know when I get my bonus, there's some info about what the average increase was, % of comp, etc. and why I got what I got. I'm sure I don't know everything, but I did get dinged once and was able to claw back some of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, is there any harm in asking someone (IDK if it's HR or if there's a partner who manages your comp) what gives? That you know you didn't make your hours, but your experience has been that means a 25% hit, not a 75% hit (or whatever it was), and is there any message you're supposed to take away from that.

Was there any messaging with the bonus so far as what other Senior Associates got? I know when I get my bonus, there's some info about what the average increase was, % of comp, etc. and why I got what I got. I'm sure I don't know everything, but I did get dinged once and was able to claw back some of it.

Here’s the truth: if you do this and suggest convincingly that you’re just asking, eager to remain at the firm and meet your hours this years, etc. (i.e., lie), there is a small but nonzero chance the firm could make some kind of accommodation. If nothing else to avoid the headache of a pregnant woman complaining. Different firms have different levels of strictness about the books being closed once bonuses are out. You won’t get to 100% but they could give you something.

If you then leave shortly thereafter, every partner with knowledge of the situation will carry that with them the rest of your career. Maybe you’ll come across one of them in the future, maybe not. But you’ll never be able to ask them to put in a word for you, they’ll never recommend you for a role, or refer business to you. If they’re ever called by a third-party diligence firm when you’re up for something, they will say (on top of whatever the performance eval is) that you were dishonest.

Can’t imagine that’s worth $10k, but do with it what you will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a senior associate at a biglaw firm. I am also pregnant. This year my firm gave me only a very small bonus (like smaller than the first years get). I did just miss the criteria to get the BIG bonus, but in my experience the firm usually just discounts the bonus (by maybe 25%) for people who miss the criteria.

I suspect that the reason the firm got cheap on my bonus is that they think I can’t move anywhere while I’m pregnant. BUT—jokes on them—I have another job lined up. I am about to give notice. Should I be honest about my suspicion about the reason for my low bonus, or should I just move on?

OP - I promise you that your firm did not stiff you on your bonus because you're pregnant. I promise.

They stiffed you because you didn't hit your targets. If you're a mid or senior associate not hitting hours, that's the writing on the wall to the firm that you're not going to make partner -- which means the firm is already shifting to the mindset that they don't need to try and retain you. Nothing to do with your pregnancy.

It doesn’t matter WHY they did it. It matters WHAT it looks like. Right? Perceived or real, and a vulnerable state. As long as she can prove she was treated differently than a non-pregnant peer with the similar hours, the law firm would be fing dumb not to make her whole. Non-disparagement included in the separation agreement.

Don’t be stupid OP. Get yours

OP's apparently evidence is that SHE (or other junrior associates) got paid a higher bonus % in past years compared to this year. How the firm bonuses 2nd year associates is 100% irrelevant to how they bonus 5th year associates. By fifth year, they are just looking to weed out. Which they're doing here.

[Anonymous]

Nonetheless, she said, “We hear very, very persistent reports that women return from maternity leave and find it very difficult to get work, even if they return to work full-time. If they return on a reduced schedule, the problem is sometimes even worse.” She added, “A not-uncommon pattern is for a woman to return, find herself unable to get enough billable hours, and then end up being let go.”

“Some of this is benevolent—‘Oh, I don't want to overload her,’” Williams explained. “Some of it is less benevolent.”

Much of the problem, according to both, is that, in Williams’ words, “Law firms are still run through 18th-century business systems.” That is, frequently decisionmakers are appointed on the basis not of managerial talent or administrative appetite, but of skills as lawyers and rainmakers.

[Anonymous]

There’s of course in addition to the many cases in the link above, a lawsuit against DLA piper.

Why are you all so aggro at this associate? Go get yours

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP since you already have a new job; why don’t you see if you can up your bonus by threatening to sue for discrimination? It’s easy to prove if others earned more in the same situation, but you got dinged for or while being preggo

I’m sick and tired of people being harsh on women

Agree. This!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, is there any harm in asking someone (IDK if it's HR or if there's a partner who manages your comp) what gives? That you know you didn't make your hours, but your experience has been that means a 25% hit, not a 75% hit (or whatever it was), and is there any message you're supposed to take away from that.

Was there any messaging with the bonus so far as what other Senior Associates got? I know when I get my bonus, there's some info about what the average increase was, % of comp, etc. and why I got what I got. I'm sure I don't know everything, but I did get dinged once and was able to claw back some of it.

Here’s the truth: if you do this and suggest convincingly that you’re just asking, eager to remain at the firm and meet your hours this years, etc. (i.e., lie), there is a small but nonzero chance the firm could make some kind of accommodation. If nothing else to avoid the headache of a pregnant woman complaining. Different firms have different levels of strictness about the books being closed once bonuses are out. You won’t get to 100% but they could give you something.

If you then leave shortly thereafter, every partner with knowledge of the situation will carry that with them the rest of your career. Maybe you’ll come across one of them in the future, maybe not. But you’ll never be able to ask them to put in a word for you, they’ll never recommend you for a role, or refer business to you. If they’re ever called by a third-party diligence firm when you’re up for something, they will say (on top of whatever the performance eval is) that you were dishonest.

Can’t imagine that’s worth $10k, but do with it what you will.

She can follow up with the bonus issue without explicitly stating that she is eager to remain at the firm. Same effect without being dishonest. If she has reason to believe she is entitled to more for her past work, she can and should follow up whether leaving or not. People don't think highly of you for being a chump. The fact that she is leaving mitigates the risk of blowback.