My daughter is in honors Bio and has never had a real lab - all are simulated or online

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a science teacher I can think of a few reasons for no physical labs:

1. Not able to meet all accommodations (rare) or not enough para support.
2. Too many students so exceed MSDE regs
3. “Lazy teacher”, but accurately a teacher not getting enough support or leadership. Ordering can be a pain in so many ways and the expectation that teachers should spend their own money and time to get materials is not realistic or sustainable even if there is paperwork for reimbursement. Just one missing item (material, tool, reagent, glassware) missing from one station means the lab cannot happen.
4. Concerns about student behavior. One or two out of control students who are not able to work independently without distracting others can be enough to dissuade a teacher from hands on lessons.
5. Teachers who have health problems so need to focus on reliable lessons that can be done with a sub.
6. Too many preps. Once you get past two, labs can be a real pain to set up and put away through out the day. Some schools have lab assistants to help with this.
7. This is a big one right now: student attendance! If a lab is a major grade there is a need to make it up. So, it points all prep on slow mode in terms of putting things away and moving on. (Retake policies can create a similar issue).

Appreciate the thoughtful reply. Is there anything parents could do that would help (eg pressing district on any of these issues)? Or are there just too many obstacles that solving one or two would create more stress and pressure for the teachers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is normal. One of my kids didn't get to do dissections because the teacher was morally opposed to it.

This is clearly untrue. MCPS has a set curriculum and every teacher in each subject has to abide by it-they can't just pick and choose. Nice try though.

Our MS PTA purchased dissection materials (or whatever you call it) for the entire grade (because it was not in the science budget). This teacher did not do it because they did not believe in dissection. Principal told me there was nothing that could be done.

[Anonymous]

The labs they used to have were so lame. I'd consider your daughter lucky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are all talking dissections but there are a lot of hands on labs without animals. And the teacher saying the online ones are better is just lazy.

All of these school have labs. Use them!

They can not. Too crowded. See MSDE requirements.

Teachers could make this work by teaming with another teacher and rotating kids through lab days. I teach at a small private academy, and we make real science work in all kinds of conditions, including outside. Have parents volunteer to assist, etc.

Yet another way that kids are graduating high school with a subpar education.

It’s much easier with fewer kids and money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it is normal. One of my kids didn't get to do dissections because the teacher was morally opposed to it.

And y’all are OK with this nonsense?

Reason number 257,936,825,586 that my kids are in private schools.

[Anonymous]

Another HS science teacher here. There should absolutely be actual labs in class. And Bio is an easy class to organize a couple of field trips as well. You should email the teacher and ask why there are only virtual labs. Perhaps it is something that the school insisted on- some sort of weird safety rule. Asking the teacher is the first step. I teach a different science and we try to do hands on labs fairly often

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a science teacher I can think of a few reasons for no physical labs:

1. Not able to meet all accommodations (rare) or not enough para support.
2. Too many students so exceed MSDE regs
3. “Lazy teacher”, but accurately a teacher not getting enough support or leadership. Ordering can be a pain in so many ways and the expectation that teachers should spend their own money and time to get materials is not realistic or sustainable even if there is paperwork for reimbursement. Just one missing item (material, tool, reagent, glassware) missing from one station means the lab cannot happen.
4. Concerns about student behavior. One or two out of control students who are not able to work independently without distracting others can be enough to dissuade a teacher from hands on lessons.
5. Teachers who have health problems so need to focus on reliable lessons that can be done with a sub.
6. Too many preps. Once you get past two, labs can be a real pain to set up and put away through out the day. Some schools have lab assistants to help with this.
7. This is a big one right now: student attendance! If a lab is a major grade there is a need to make it up. So, it points all prep on slow mode in terms of putting things away and moving on. (Retake policies can create a similar issue).

Appreciate the thoughtful reply. Is there anything parents could do that would help (eg pressing district on any of these issues)? Or are there just too many obstacles that solving one or two would create more stress and pressure for the teachers?

Push for smaller class sizes and more teacher support. I remember one class that had the ED cluster students in it. It was a frog dissection lab and we had 8 adults in the class to provide assistance. It was glorious!! All kids benefit from smaller class sizes. Having more para or co-teacher support is awesome as well. Oftentimes science classes get less support than math and English along with much bigger class sizes. You can’t easily do a lab with 36 kids in a room meant for 24-30. Throw in a couple of IEPs, 504s and ESOLs, suddenly any labs beyond a few steps gets really hard if not impossible without more adults in the room.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are all talking dissections but there are a lot of hands on labs without animals. And the teacher saying the online ones are better is just lazy.

All of these school have labs. Use them!

They can not. Too crowded. See MSDE requirements.

Teachers could make this work by teaming with another teacher and rotating kids through lab days. I teach at a small private academy, and we make real science work in all kinds of conditions, including outside. Have parents volunteer to assist, etc.

Yet another way that kids are graduating high school with a subpar education.

It’s much easier with fewer kids and money.

Ha ha - money! You are making assumptions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is normal. One of my kids didn't get to do dissections because the teacher was morally opposed to it.

And y’all are OK with this nonsense?

Reason number 257,936,825,586 that my kids are in private schools.

Yes, I am ok with the kids not doing dissections.

You're posting on the wrong forum.

[Anonymous]

The absence of dissections and other labs in science classes is one of the many reasons why public schools are so much better than private schools for STEM

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is normal. One of my kids didn't get to do dissections because the teacher was morally opposed to it.

And y’all are OK with this nonsense?

Reason number 257,936,825,586 that my kids are in private schools.

Yes, I am ok with the kids not doing dissections.

You're posting on the wrong forum.

Reason 1,234,567 why fools and their money are soon parted. My kids are in SMSC and RMIB and just loving MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pre-pandemic I would have said that is not normal. When I was in MCPS, we had labs in middle school science classes. I have no idea what the children normally do in middle school science these days with regard to labs.

Our middle school received beautiful lab tables, etc. when renovated. But they’re effectively just used as desks. They almost never do labs.

This is so sad. My kid is in 10th and has yet to have an actual lab. Like where are the goggles, test tubes, vials, Bunsen burners etc…

I think this is more Science Lab Nostalgia than actual current science labs.

No this is current science. Kids have to learn how to use lab equipment in order to do serious science in college.

+1 My DD did get actual labs in HS bio (IB bio) but her only chemistry experience was during the online covid year so she's never done a real chemistry lab. This year she's a college freshman and this semester is taking her first chemistry class. It is going to be very challenging!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No this is current science. Kids have to learn how to use lab equipment in order to do serious science in college.

+100

It’s not rocket science. If we could learn how to use it in MS within a few sessions you could probably learn it within one lab session in college.

[Anonymous]

Honestly, so much of the learning in MS/HS lab science can also be done at home just as part of basic cooking/baking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pre-pandemic I would have said that is not normal. When I was in MCPS, we had labs in middle school science classes. I have no idea what the children normally do in middle school science these days with regard to labs.

Our middle school received beautiful lab tables, etc. when renovated. But they’re effectively just used as desks. They almost never do labs.

This is so sad. My kid is in 10th and has yet to have an actual lab. Like where are the goggles, test tubes, vials, Bunsen burners etc…

I think this is more Science Lab Nostalgia than actual current science labs.

No this is current science. Kids have to learn how to use lab equipment in order to do serious science in college.

+1 My DD did get actual labs in HS bio (IB bio) but her only chemistry experience was during the online covid year so she's never done a real chemistry lab. This year she's a college freshman and this semester is taking her first chemistry class. It is going to be very challenging!

As someone who took high school chemistry with some labs, and then college chemistry, also with labs, in the dark ages when dinosaurs roamed the earth - I think she'll be fine.