My daughter is in honors Bio and has never had a real lab - all are simulated or online

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child's MS science teacher has the kids grow plants, mix materials for chemical reactions, and do other small experiments to record observations. This is not done at other schools? I took it for granted it was the norm.

Me too. I’m appalled on behalf on all students that this is not the norm. Science and experimentation isn’t just about things going right and getting the desired result. A lot goes wrong and you have to be able to record that and analyze why and what next step to take, what to change, create new hypothesis.

But science "labs" in middle school and high school in the US have traditionally been cookbook recipes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean is this normal? They literally are almost done half the year and they have never done a lab. Nothing. Only papers and a Chromebook. I understand during Covid, but why aren't they getting more hands on.

Overcrowding. Lab stations are set by state for safety reasons and when the BOE overcrowds a science classroom the teacher cannot let students perform experiments. For example, the science lab is built for 24 students but the BOE puts 30 students in the room the teacher can not let students run experiments.

There are plenty of Bio labs that do not involve anything hazardous. If a teacher uses the above as an excuse, it is indefensible.

Not enough lab stations = no room

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My middle school life science does labs

A couple of years ago when DC was in MS, they dissected a frog.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pre-pandemic I would have said that is not normal. When I was in MCPS, we had labs in middle school science classes. I have no idea what the children normally do in middle school science these days with regard to labs.

Our middle school received beautiful lab tables, etc. when renovated. But they’re effectively just used as desks. They almost never do labs.

This is so sad. My kid is in 10th and has yet to have an actual lab. Like where are the goggles, test tubes, vials, Bunsen burners etc…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child's MS science teacher has the kids grow plants, mix materials for chemical reactions, and do other small experiments to record observations. This is not done at other schools? I took it for granted it was the norm.

Me too. I’m appalled on behalf on all students that this is not the norm. Science and experimentation isn’t just about things going right and getting the desired result. A lot goes wrong and you have to be able to record that and analyze why and what next step to take, what to change, create new hypothesis.

But science "labs" in middle school and high school in the US have traditionally been cookbook recipes.

Frog legs! Ymm!

[Anonymous]

You are all talking dissections but there are a lot of hands on labs without animals. And the teacher saying the online ones are better is just lazy.

All of these school have labs. Use them!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pre-pandemic I would have said that is not normal. When I was in MCPS, we had labs in middle school science classes. I have no idea what the children normally do in middle school science these days with regard to labs.

Our middle school received beautiful lab tables, etc. when renovated. But they’re effectively just used as desks. They almost never do labs.

This is so sad. My kid is in 10th and has yet to have an actual lab. Like where are the goggles, test tubes, vials, Bunsen burners etc…

I think this is more Science Lab Nostalgia than actual current science labs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are all talking dissections but there are a lot of hands on labs without animals. And the teacher saying the online ones are better is just lazy.

All of these school have labs. Use them!

They can not. Too crowded. See MSDE requirements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are all talking dissections but there are a lot of hands on labs without animals. And the teacher saying the online ones are better is just lazy.

All of these school have labs. Use them!

This! Microscope-related labs are really cool. Better than smelly dissections.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it is normal. One of my kids didn't get to do dissections because the teacher was morally opposed to it.

This is clearly untrue. MCPS has a set curriculum and every teacher in each subject has to abide by it-they can't just pick and choose. Nice try though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pre-pandemic I would have said that is not normal. When I was in MCPS, we had labs in middle school science classes. I have no idea what the children normally do in middle school science these days with regard to labs.

Our middle school received beautiful lab tables, etc. when renovated. But they’re effectively just used as desks. They almost never do labs.

This is so sad. My kid is in 10th and has yet to have an actual lab. Like where are the goggles, test tubes, vials, Bunsen burners etc…

I think this is more Science Lab Nostalgia than actual current science labs.

No this is current science. Kids have to learn how to use lab equipment in order to do serious science in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are all talking dissections but there are a lot of hands on labs without animals. And the teacher saying the online ones are better is just lazy.

All of these school have labs. Use them!

They can not. Too crowded. See MSDE requirements.

Teachers could make this work by teaming with another teacher and rotating kids through lab days. I teach at a small private academy, and we make real science work in all kinds of conditions, including outside. Have parents volunteer to assist, etc.

Yet another way that kids are graduating high school with a subpar education.

[Anonymous]

As a science teacher I can think of a few reasons for no physical labs:

1. Not able to meet all accommodations (rare) or not enough para support.
2. Too many students so exceed MSDE regs
3. “Lazy teacher”, but accurately a teacher not getting enough support or leadership. Ordering can be a pain in so many ways and the expectation that teachers should spend their own money and time to get materials is not realistic or sustainable even if there is paperwork for reimbursement. Just one missing item (material, tool, reagent, glassware) missing from one station means the lab cannot happen.
4. Concerns about student behavior. One or two out of control students who are not able to work independently without distracting others can be enough to dissuade a teacher from hands on lessons.
5. Teachers who have health problems so need to focus on reliable lessons that can be done with a sub.
6. Too many preps. Once you get past two, labs can be a real pain to set up and put away through out the day. Some schools have lab assistants to help with this.
7. This is a big one right now: student attendance! If a lab is a major grade there is a need to make it up. So, it points all prep on slow mode in terms of putting things away and moving on. (Retake policies can create a similar issue).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

No this is current science. Kids have to learn how to use lab equipment in order to do serious science in college.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a science teacher I can think of a few reasons for no physical labs:

1. Not able to meet all accommodations (rare) or not enough para support.
2. Too many students so exceed MSDE regs
3. “Lazy teacher”, but accurately a teacher not getting enough support or leadership. Ordering can be a pain in so many ways and the expectation that teachers should spend their own money and time to get materials is not realistic or sustainable even if there is paperwork for reimbursement. Just one missing item (material, tool, reagent, glassware) missing from one station means the lab cannot happen.
4. Concerns about student behavior. One or two out of control students who are not able to work independently without distracting others can be enough to dissuade a teacher from hands on lessons.
5. Teachers who have health problems so need to focus on reliable lessons that can be done with a sub.
6. Too many preps. Once you get past two, labs can be a real pain to set up and put away through out the day. Some schools have lab assistants to help with this.
7. This is a big one right now: student attendance! If a lab is a major grade there is a need to make it up. So, it points all prep on slow mode in terms of putting things away and moving on. (Retake policies can create a similar issue).

So true. I remember a few years ago when the new chem curriculum came out. The very well meaning teacher giving professional development was telling everyone where we could find the right types of soil to go dig up for our students to complete a lab. Literally, we could go out on our own time, drive our car up to the side of the road, and dig up some dirt from the side of the road in multiple locations to get the variety of soil types we needed. I did appreciate the trainer trying to help us out by providing the information.