My daughter is in honors Bio and has never had a real lab - all are simulated or online

[Anonymous]

I drove my dd and friend to school today and they were talking about the lab they were doing yesterday-- sounded like a real lab.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pre-pandemic I would have said that is not normal. When I was in MCPS, we had labs in middle school science classes. I have no idea what the children normally do in middle school science these days with regard to labs.

Are you a parent? MCPS is completely different than when you were a kid. Even pre-pandemic MS and HS science labs were scaled back a lot from when we were kids. I think a PP has hit the nail on the head that it is related to very large class sizes and budget restrictions (our science teachers told us they didn't have enough budget for lab materials). In my kid's MS the PTA provided money for lab materials but some teachers used the extra money and some didn't. Very frustrating.

I am a parent.

I think we dissected worms in middle school and then graduated to dissecting frogs in 9th grade bio. The frequency and intensity of labs definitely scaled up from middle school, but back in the '90s, we still did some labs at the middle school level. Mainly learning how to use bunsen burners, familiarizing ourselves with lab equipment, etc.

The fact that doing actually lab science is no longer the norm is sad. It also goes along with kids no longer doing actual physical education in PE class either. MCPS is a disaster.

I'm actually happy to hear that middle school and high school biology classes are no longer doing dissections.

Dissections aren’t the only labs they’ve stopped doing.

[Anonymous]

It’s not required to do dissections in MCPS. It’s not part of the curriculum. Only if your school is willing to purchase specimens will that ever happen and you have extra time to squeeze it in.

I am an MCPS science teacher who believes in the value of hands on. I came from industry. I’m in middle school but I spend hundreds of dollars of my own money each year to conduct labs. This is my last year doing that anymore because it’s so unsustainable. My classes are too large now. It’s a shame they don’t put more emphasis on science here. I don’t even want to teach science anymore now. I would hate it as a kid if it wasn’t hands on. I would hate it as a teacher too! My 9th grade bio teacher opened my eyes to science due to the really interesting labs he did. We are losing potential future engineers and scientists by their lack of commitment to STEM.

[Anonymous]

I remember pithing my frog back in the day before dissecting it. I'm guessing they don't do that any more, either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean is this normal? They literally are almost done half the year and they have never done a lab. Nothing. Only papers and a Chromebook. I understand during Covid, but why aren't they getting more hands on.

- Pre-covid there were already a lot of online simulations being developed and in use. The pandemic really pushed companies to expand and refine their online offerings. A lot of high-quality resources are available now.

- Kids have been steadily losing basic hands-on skills (think arts & crafts) for the past decade. Smart phones and video games are far more enticing than building things with your own hands. HS students can't manage scissors, paperclips, stapling papers together. Put real lab materials in front of them and at best they stand around not knowing what to do and unwilling to touch the materials. At worst they are foolish and play around destroying things. (And yes, I'm talking 15, 16, 17 year old in Honors science classes.)

- On top of the general decline in hands-on capability, the 2-3 year disruption of virtual instruction + return means that now MS kids have ES lab skills/behaviors and HS kids have MS lab skills/behaviors. Any lab that used to take 1 day now takes 2 days, even if the kids are focused. But really, as soon as you shift to something more unstructured as a lab, the phones come out so either it takes even longer and 1/3 of the kids get nothing out of the lab because they will just copy the answers from someone else and spend their time watching sports or shows.

- Add on top of this general dysfunction the overcrowded classes, time and expense of lab materials, set-up, and clean-up, an ever revolving door of who is absent, and parents who complain about their kid not being taught what ends up on a test. It's just easier and more consistent to use simulations whenever they exist.
** Kids can make-up the work if they are absent.
** Teachers can post answer keys for the simulation.
** Students focus more using the simulations than they do with real materials.
** Students can collect clean data that shows the relationships they are supposed to see.
** Classroom management and suppressing phone use is easier.
** No time spent on set-up and clean-up.

That's why there aren't real labs anymore.
-HS science teacher

[Anonymous]

Interesting perspective above. I was thinking of moving to high school but I despise the GIZMOs if that’s what you are referring to. All virtual simulations are a poor substitution IMO to hands-on leaning. Even when I taught during the pandemic I was having my students find things around the house to use to learn concepts. My middle school students are excellent with materials. I don’t use anything fancy because it’s not provided. The kids want to get off the computer so they listen to direction. I can’t believe that it doesn’t happen at the high school level. That’s a real shame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean is this normal? They literally are almost done half the year and they have never done a lab. Nothing. Only papers and a Chromebook. I understand during Covid, but why aren't they getting more hands on.

- Pre-covid there were already a lot of online simulations being developed and in use. The pandemic really pushed companies to expand and refine their online offerings. A lot of high-quality resources are available now.

- Kids have been steadily losing basic hands-on skills (think arts & crafts) for the past decade. Smart phones and video games are far more enticing than building things with your own hands. HS students can't manage scissors, paperclips, stapling papers together. Put real lab materials in front of them and at best they stand around not knowing what to do and unwilling to touch the materials. At worst they are foolish and play around destroying things. (And yes, I'm talking 15, 16, 17 year old in Honors science classes.)

- On top of the general decline in hands-on capability, the 2-3 year disruption of virtual instruction + return means that now MS kids have ES lab skills/behaviors and HS kids have MS lab skills/behaviors. Any lab that used to take 1 day now takes 2 days, even if the kids are focused. But really, as soon as you shift to something more unstructured as a lab, the phones come out so either it takes even longer and 1/3 of the kids get nothing out of the lab because they will just copy the answers from someone else and spend their time watching sports or shows.

- Add on top of this general dysfunction the overcrowded classes, time and expense of lab materials, set-up, and clean-up, an ever revolving door of who is absent, and parents who complain about their kid not being taught what ends up on a test. It's just easier and more consistent to use simulations whenever they exist.
** Kids can make-up the work if they are absent.
** Teachers can post answer keys for the simulation.
** Students focus more using the simulations than they do with real materials.
** Students can collect clean data that shows the relationships they are supposed to see.
** Classroom management and suppressing phone use is easier.
** No time spent on set-up and clean-up.

That's why there aren't real labs anymore.
-HS science teacher

Well damn. What a sad state of affairs. But I appreciate the reality check.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean is this normal? They literally are almost done half the year and they have never done a lab. Nothing. Only papers and a Chromebook. I understand during Covid, but why aren't they getting more hands on.

Overcrowding. Lab stations are set by state for safety reasons and when the BOE overcrowds a science classroom the teacher cannot let students perform experiments. For example, the science lab is built for 24 students but the BOE puts 30 students in the room the teacher can not let students run experiments.

Yep, this. Too many kids and not enough resources. Definitely an issue in MCPS.

[Anonymous]

My child's MS science teacher has the kids grow plants, mix materials for chemical reactions, and do other small experiments to record observations. This is not done at other schools? I took it for granted it was the norm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean is this normal? They literally are almost done half the year and they have never done a lab. Nothing. Only papers and a Chromebook. I understand during Covid, but why aren't they getting more hands on.

Overcrowding. Lab stations are set by state for safety reasons and when the BOE overcrowds a science classroom the teacher cannot let students perform experiments. For example, the science lab is built for 24 students but the BOE puts 30 students in the room the teacher can not let students run experiments.

There are plenty of Bio labs that do not involve anything hazardous. If a teacher uses the above as an excuse, it is indefensible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is pretty normal, expect more labs in physics and chemistry. Biology isn’t really something that has a lot of labs it is more content. This is also honors bio, what would to expect.

No... there are many traditional high school Bio labs.

[Anonymous]

I remember thinking my MS kid was doing *too many* dissections in science class. I don't remember which animals, but it was like a progression of four animals. (I remember that one was a chicken from the grocery store!). I think they did it in teams of four and kids could decide within groups how many/which ones would hold the scalpel.

[Anonymous]

My middle school life science does labs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is pretty normal, expect more labs in physics and chemistry. Biology isn’t really something that has a lot of labs it is more content. This is also honors bio, what would to expect.

I expect less ignorance and better grammar. The very first unit in middle school life science is on microscopes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child's MS science teacher has the kids grow plants, mix materials for chemical reactions, and do other small experiments to record observations. This is not done at other schools? I took it for granted it was the norm.

Me too. I’m appalled on behalf on all students that this is not the norm. Science and experimentation isn’t just about things going right and getting the desired result. A lot goes wrong and you have to be able to record that and analyze why and what next step to take, what to change, create new hypothesis.