Which country actually has the best healthcare system?

[Anonymous]

I don't understand these people who are also not willing to pay. If my child needed cancer treatment, yes I would be okay spending 100k or getting a second mortgage. This is an extreme example, but so many people are upset about paying 1k for services. Nothing is free in life.

I do think that hospital administration costs are out of control. Even my dentist has trouble with the administration costs of insurance.

[Anonymous]

English person here and whilst it is true the English complain a lot about the NHS (and everything in general) it is an amazing system. It's not what it used to be, but it is far better and cheaper than anything in the US. Private insurance is widely available and cheaper than the US. The US is the best of the best, most innovative etc if money is no object. For most regular people though, the UK system is the way to go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand these people who are also not willing to pay. If my child needed cancer treatment, yes I would be okay spending 100k or getting a second mortgage. This is an extreme example, but so many people are upset about paying 1k for services. Nothing is free in life.

I do think that hospital administration costs are out of control. Even my dentist has trouble with the administration costs of insurance.

Would you take out a second mortgage if your learning-disabled child needed services not provided by their school?

What if you had neither a house to leverage nor $1K for services your child needed to live?

Why is the way we handle healthcare as a society so different from how we handle education?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand these people who are also not willing to pay. If my child needed cancer treatment, yes I would be okay spending 100k or getting a second mortgage. This is an extreme example, but so many people are upset about paying 1k for services. Nothing is free in life.

I do think that hospital administration costs are out of control. Even my dentist has trouble with the administration costs of insurance.

And if you don't have 100k? Or multiples of that if you are uninsured or underinsured?

[Anonymous]

We lived in France and were on national healthcare with a 75 euro a month top up plan.

One thing that they had that I loved is a national doctor appointment booking website that most doctors used. You can search specialty, neighborhood, languages, etc. by availability. Because of this, we could always get a same day appointment. (We were in Paris.) Most doctors would also upload any health records from the visit to this account so you always have them.

We also had a home doctor visit service for weekend and overnight health issues that didn’t warrant an ER. They also offered off-hour telehealth appointments. It basically was an urgent care, but at your home.

As long as you stay within the system, there is also basically no paperwork to deal with. All of your bills (which usually ran 25-50 max) would get automatically sent to the health service and your linked top up insurance for reimbursement within 48 hours. Prescriptions too.

The negative:
If you go to the ER for something not super serious, waits can be long.
Their testing ages for screening exams like mammogram and colonoscopy are older than the US, so if you want to be screened earlier purely for your own peace of mind and not because if family history, you pay a couple hundred out of pocket.
Dermatologists were in short supply within the system.
Therapy was not easily reimbursed but psychiatrists were.
Doctors are paid less and there are health deserts in rural areas with not enough doctors.

I think I’d still choose the French system though. Never having to worry a medical bill would sink us was such a mental relief I swear it improved my health.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The US has the best healthcare and actually does make high quality healthcare accessible to a larger range of people.

EU countries have healthcare systems that greatly vary. Some are a combination of public with private insurance. Small countries like Switzerland and Denmark can fare very well but have very different dynamics making comparison nearly impossible.

I find many problems with the US systems but the quality of healthcare isn't so much the problem. It's the bureaucracy and how it's financed (ever so complicated!) and the opaqueness of information that makes it so frustrating.

I don't think anyone will argue that the quality of care in the US is subpar compared to most other countries, just that the system is so broken that we are paying ridiculous amounts for something that other countries charge half the amount for private care.

I will. I believe it is a myth that the US has better quality or outcomes.

It may not have better outcomes (that could be due to the patient's willingness to live healthier), but our medical industry is flushed with money and can offer the highest quality medical care... for those who can afford it.

The disparity in income and medical care in this country is so much wider than other developed countries. It all comes down to an "I" (US) vs "we" (other countries) mentality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've had insurance my entire life. My parents had a great plan and then I do as well (Kaiser Permanente). I can't say that I can complain about anything. I get new doctor's appts within the month, but I'm also young (40s) and haven't had any major issues other than birth. My dad recently needed brain surgery and he was able to go to one of the top surgeons in America for this type of tumor. He easily got an appt and insurance paid most of it.

I really don't think ours is as broken as the news makes it seem. Except for ERs. ERs truly are some kind of sh!tshow. But that's because people clog them up with tons of unneeded stuff. They should be pushing people to urgent cares or primary care doctors, but they can't. Oh and therapy is a sh!tshow too. But I think if therapy was easy to access, nearly every American would be going weekly. There is some cost/benefit analysis there. Kaiser definitely wouldn't pay.

A lot of my friends have lived abroad and were not happy with the medical care and did indicate that they preferred ours. In Ontario my friend got supplemental private insurance because her company said she'd need it. She wasn't happy with them trying to push a vaginal birth on her when she'd had back surgery and a prior c section. Friends currently living in England also have private insurance.

The US system is "broken" in that a person can go bankrupt due to medical debt. No other civilized country has this problem.

The best type of system is both public and private, where you can get private insurance if you want to. Most civilized countries have this option. Also, their insurance is no where near as expensive as ours, and neither are the costs for the medical care even if you pay out pocket.

Donyou know why in other countries people don’t go bankrupt over the medical cost? Because they dead. At least in America we have a choice to go bankrupt or be dead. Over there you don’t have this choice.

That's just a ridiculous response. You still get care in other developed countries. It isn't a choice of dead or bankrupt.

Once again, mortality data does not back this up.

The US mortality rate is lower than other developed countries with universal healthcare, like Canada

\\

You might want to do, I don't know- any quick search before spouting off something you may want to be true:

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-life-expectancy-compare-countries/#Life%20expectancy%20at%20birth,%20in%20years,%201980-2021

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've had insurance my entire life. My parents had a great plan and then I do as well (Kaiser Permanente). I can't say that I can complain about anything. I get new doctor's appts within the month, but I'm also young (40s) and haven't had any major issues other than birth. My dad recently needed brain surgery and he was able to go to one of the top surgeons in America for this type of tumor. He easily got an appt and insurance paid most of it.

I really don't think ours is as broken as the news makes it seem. Except for ERs. ERs truly are some kind of sh!tshow. But that's because people clog them up with tons of unneeded stuff. They should be pushing people to urgent cares or primary care doctors, but they can't. Oh and therapy is a sh!tshow too. But I think if therapy was easy to access, nearly every American would be going weekly. There is some cost/benefit analysis there. Kaiser definitely wouldn't pay.

A lot of my friends have lived abroad and were not happy with the medical care and did indicate that they preferred ours. In Ontario my friend got supplemental private insurance because her company said she'd need it. She wasn't happy with them trying to push a vaginal birth on her when she'd had back surgery and a prior c section. Friends currently living in England also have private insurance.

The US system is "broken" in that a person can go bankrupt due to medical debt. No other civilized country has this problem.

The best type of system is both public and private, where you can get private insurance if you want to. Most civilized countries have this option. Also, their insurance is no where near as expensive as ours, and neither are the costs for the medical care even if you pay out pocket.

Donyou know why in other countries people don’t go bankrupt over the medical cost? Because they dead. At least in America we have a choice to go bankrupt or be dead. Over there you don’t have this choice.

That's just a ridiculous response. You still get care in other developed countries. It isn't a choice of dead or bankrupt.

Once again, mortality data does not back this up.

The US mortality rate is lower than other developed countries with universal healthcare, like Canada

\\

You might want to do, I don't know- any quick search before spouting off something you may want to be true:

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-life-expectancy-compare-countries/#Life%20expectancy%20at%20birth,%20in%20years,%201980-2021

I think we are not on the same page in terms of definition. When I say, "US has a low mortality", I meant that they are worse off than other developed countries. Perhaps I should've stated it the other way around.

In any case, mortality and life expectancy aren't necessarily the same

The PP wrote "mortality", not "life expectancy".

But, yea, the US doesn't have great health outcomes compared to the rest of the developed countries that have universal healthcare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've had insurance my entire life. My parents had a great plan and then I do as well (Kaiser Permanente). I can't say that I can complain about anything. I get new doctor's appts within the month, but I'm also young (40s) and haven't had any major issues other than birth. My dad recently needed brain surgery and he was able to go to one of the top surgeons in America for this type of tumor. He easily got an appt and insurance paid most of it.

I really don't think ours is as broken as the news makes it seem. Except for ERs. ERs truly are some kind of sh!tshow. But that's because people clog them up with tons of unneeded stuff. They should be pushing people to urgent cares or primary care doctors, but they can't. Oh and therapy is a sh!tshow too. But I think if therapy was easy to access, nearly every American would be going weekly. There is some cost/benefit analysis there. Kaiser definitely wouldn't pay.

A lot of my friends have lived abroad and were not happy with the medical care and did indicate that they preferred ours. In Ontario my friend got supplemental private insurance because her company said she'd need it. She wasn't happy with them trying to push a vaginal birth on her when she'd had back surgery and a prior c section. Friends currently living in England also have private insurance.

The US system is "broken" in that a person can go bankrupt due to medical debt. No other civilized country has this problem.

The best type of system is both public and private, where you can get private insurance if you want to. Most civilized countries have this option. Also, their insurance is no where near as expensive as ours, and neither are the costs for the medical care even if you pay out pocket.

Donyou know why in other countries people don’t go bankrupt over the medical cost? Because they dead. At least in America we have a choice to go bankrupt or be dead. Over there you don’t have this choice.

That's just a ridiculous response. You still get care in other developed countries. It isn't a choice of dead or bankrupt.

Once again, mortality data does not back this up.

The US mortality rate is lower than other developed countries with universal healthcare, like Canada

\\

You might want to do, I don't know- any quick search before spouting off something you may want to be true:

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-life-expectancy-compare-countries/#Life%20expectancy%20at%20birth,%20in%20years,%201980-2021

And several more but I particularly like the first because it also breaks out healthcare cost per person:

https://www.bu.edu/sph/news/articles/2023/the-missing-americans-unprecedented-us-mortality-far-exceeds-other-wealthy-nations/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK571929/
https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/press-release/compared-to-peer-countries-the-u-s-had-the-highest-rate-of-mortality-among-people-under-age-65-and-potential-years-of-life-lost-in-2020-due-to-the-pandemic/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've had insurance my entire life. My parents had a great plan and then I do as well (Kaiser Permanente). I can't say that I can complain about anything. I get new doctor's appts within the month, but I'm also young (40s) and haven't had any major issues other than birth. My dad recently needed brain surgery and he was able to go to one of the top surgeons in America for this type of tumor. He easily got an appt and insurance paid most of it.

I really don't think ours is as broken as the news makes it seem. Except for ERs. ERs truly are some kind of sh!tshow. But that's because people clog them up with tons of unneeded stuff. They should be pushing people to urgent cares or primary care doctors, but they can't. Oh and therapy is a sh!tshow too. But I think if therapy was easy to access, nearly every American would be going weekly. There is some cost/benefit analysis there. Kaiser definitely wouldn't pay.

A lot of my friends have lived abroad and were not happy with the medical care and did indicate that they preferred ours. In Ontario my friend got supplemental private insurance because her company said she'd need it. She wasn't happy with them trying to push a vaginal birth on her when she'd had back surgery and a prior c section. Friends currently living in England also have private insurance.

The US system is "broken" in that a person can go bankrupt due to medical debt. No other civilized country has this problem.

The best type of system is both public and private, where you can get private insurance if you want to. Most civilized countries have this option. Also, their insurance is no where near as expensive as ours, and neither are the costs for the medical care even if you pay out pocket.

Donyou know why in other countries people don’t go bankrupt over the medical cost? Because they dead. At least in America we have a choice to go bankrupt or be dead. Over there you don’t have this choice.

That's just a ridiculous response. You still get care in other developed countries. It isn't a choice of dead or bankrupt.

Once again, mortality data does not back this up.

The US mortality rate is lower than other developed countries with universal healthcare, like Canada

\\

You might want to do, I don't know- any quick search before spouting off something you may want to be true:

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-life-expectancy-compare-countries/#Life%20expectancy%20at%20birth,%20in%20years,%201980-2021

I think we are not on the same page in terms of definition. When I say, "US has a low mortality", I meant that they are worse off than other developed countries. Perhaps I should've stated it the other way around.

In any case, mortality and life expectancy aren't necessarily the same

The PP wrote "mortality", not "life expectancy".

But, yea, the US doesn't have great health outcomes compared to the rest of the developed countries that have universal healthcare.

here you are..https://www.bu.edu/sph/news/articles/2023/the-missing-americans-unprecedented-us-mortality-far-exceeds-other-wealthy-nations/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We lived in France and were on national healthcare with a 75 euro a month top up plan.

One thing that they had that I loved is a national doctor appointment booking website that most doctors used. You can search specialty, neighborhood, languages, etc. by availability. Because of this, we could always get a same day appointment. (We were in Paris.) Most doctors would also upload any health records from the visit to this account so you always have them.

We also had a home doctor visit service for weekend and overnight health issues that didn’t warrant an ER. They also offered off-hour telehealth appointments. It basically was an urgent care, but at your home.

As long as you stay within the system, there is also basically no paperwork to deal with. All of your bills (which usually ran 25-50 max) would get automatically sent to the health service and your linked top up insurance for reimbursement within 48 hours. Prescriptions too.

The negative:
If you go to the ER for something not super serious, waits can be long.
Their testing ages for screening exams like mammogram and colonoscopy are older than the US, so if you want to be screened earlier purely for your own peace of mind and not because if family history, you pay a couple hundred out of pocket.
Dermatologists were in short supply within the system.
Therapy was not easily reimbursed but psychiatrists were.
Doctors are paid less and there are health deserts in rural areas with not enough doctors.

I think I’d still choose the French system though. Never having to worry a medical bill would sink us was such a mental relief I swear it improved my health.

We have lived in Europe as well and the US system seems to prioritise testing and preventive care and on an individual level, those make a difference in adverse outcomes- i.e. cancer screening which catch cancer early is great for that individual but on a societal level- which socialised medicine prioritises, it doesn't really do much. So the US spends more money on testing and screening without much impact to society. Of course if you are the one with cancer who was saved, you'd be all for it.

[Anonymous]

US healthcare blows major chunks. You clowns are absolutely delusional.

[Anonymous]

This thread is also a bunch of ethnocentric trash.

Places with much better healthcare than the US and all of Europe:

Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong, South Korea, Taiwan, and even China. Hell, I'd even put Thailand above the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We lived in France and were on national healthcare with a 75 euro a month top up plan.

One thing that they had that I loved is a national doctor appointment booking website that most doctors used. You can search specialty, neighborhood, languages, etc. by availability. Because of this, we could always get a same day appointment. (We were in Paris.) Most doctors would also upload any health records from the visit to this account so you always have them.

We also had a home doctor visit service for weekend and overnight health issues that didn’t warrant an ER. They also offered off-hour telehealth appointments. It basically was an urgent care, but at your home.

As long as you stay within the system, there is also basically no paperwork to deal with. All of your bills (which usually ran 25-50 max) would get automatically sent to the health service and your linked top up insurance for reimbursement within 48 hours. Prescriptions too.

The negative:
If you go to the ER for something not super serious, waits can be long.
Their testing ages for screening exams like mammogram and colonoscopy are older than the US, so if you want to be screened earlier purely for your own peace of mind and not because if family history, you pay a couple hundred out of pocket.
Dermatologists were in short supply within the system.
Therapy was not easily reimbursed but psychiatrists were.
Doctors are paid less and there are health deserts in rural areas with not enough doctors.

I think I’d still choose the French system though. Never having to worry a medical bill would sink us was such a mental relief I swear it improved my health.

+1. My adult DD, with ties to both France and the US, preferred to live in France during the pandemic, where she knew that she had good healthcare and wouldn't go bankrupt or die because she didn't have enough money for treatment. It was a huge relief to her and everyone around her to know that she would be cared for and if the system got overwhelmed it would be handled in an equitable way - not just those with money or connections get care.

[Anonymous]

Taiwan.