A difficult truth to accept: Liberal democracy is not favored around the world

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The power holding class rarely gives it up.

Exhibit A - Putin invading Ukraine and other neighbors to satiate empire lust, and

Exhibit B - Trump’s failed but destructive insurrection and escalating number of lies about his election loss in 2020 election.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The power holding class rarely gives it up.

Exhibit A - Putin invading Ukraine and other neighbors to satiate empire lust, and

Exhibit B - Trump’s failed but destructive insurrection and escalating number of lies about his election loss in 2020 election.

Why didn’t Trump use some of the military to succeed on Jan. 6th? He just thought a few thousand mostly unarmed protesters would get the job done?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op is spot on

Go raise your family in Russia. It will be so great.

Isn’t Russia a good-ish example? After the fall of communism, they had voting rights but the economy was miserable. Putin came to power and restored stability, including economic stability, which underpins his popular support. Individual freedoms were eroded. Clearly that didn’t suit everyone but it seems it suits the majority.

DP.
I think a good source of knowledge on how average Russians feel is the Trauma Zone documentary.

Basically, they believed in liberal democracy and were hoping they would live “no worse than those in the U.S. and Europe”. However it was very very different, and now there is disillusionment.
People are starting to understand that liberal democracies are an elite club, and a country can either join them at great costs, losing economic and industrial independence, becoming their second class citizen so to speak, or a country can adopt a government that is resistant to becoming basically a servant to the club. This government starts protecting the country’s geopolitical interests, which is in turn framed by The Club as tyranny and all the other bad things. This causes the government in question to resist even more and become an even worse guy in the eyes of the western media and public, and so the vicious circle begins.

TLDR: there are only two ways for a country today to improve its economic situation- either to become subservient to the U.S. or to become a bad guy (gradually) while trying to protect its economic and geopolitical interests.

Completely disagree with your analysis.

Many US allies are far from subservient to the US. Many of them disagree on trade and human rights issues but express that in appropriate forums such as WTO/ UN/ diplomatic talks.

Russians have never had a functioning democracy and life under both communism and then Putin’s weird empire mongering dictatorship have not been kind to a majority of Russians. The cost for them never having a liberal democracy are

Would never in a million years want to swap life with free press, messy democracy, and individual freedoms for life in a dictatorship.

The non-subservient allies are Western European countries, and even that can be disputed (but okay I’ll give it that).

There was at least 10 years, maybe more, of trying to build a functioning democracy in Russia (1990-2000 or so). Even the 2010s weren’t so bad yet. The problem is that most Russians are completely disillusioned by that decade. They also see what happened to the Baltics which went all in for democracy.

Finally, Russia would be totally ok and not a villain if the U.S. and Western Europe listened to them and stopped their NATO and EU expansion flirting with the countries bordering Russia.
However it simply could not have happened as the ultimate goal of any larger country or union is to stop other countries they perceive as threats from expanding their influence.

So, Russia could have let “the west” have Georgia, Ukraine, and Moldova. Or they had a a choice of becoming a contrarian and trying to stand their ground, which they did.
I think they have overestimated themselves and underestimated the clever PR and politics of the west, but the fact remains: it’s either doing what you are told and being a good friend or standing one’s ground and becoming the villain.

[Anonymous]

Op has some interesting insights, but the conclusions are warped.
Liberal democracy is difficult, and slow moving. I think technology has unleashed some obstacles, and democracy is struggling a bit. Ultimately no other nation has found a better way. Perhaps some western democracies have better execution, but the concept is the best we’ve got.
And yes, people who are focused on a roof and food, can be convinced by strong men. That’s not much of an endorsement.
“This authoritarianism is perfect for struggling people in sh——hole counties” isn’t the ringing endorsement.
Your needs typically need to be met before enlightenment can occur. That should be self evident.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op is spot on

Go raise your family in Russia. It will be so great.

Isn’t Russia a good-ish example? After the fall of communism, they had voting rights but the economy was miserable. Putin came to power and restored stability, including economic stability, which underpins his popular support. Individual freedoms were eroded. Clearly that didn’t suit everyone but it seems it suits the majority.

Well if the majority wants their male life expectancy to be 64 years than sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op has some interesting insights, but the conclusions are warped.
Liberal democracy is difficult, and slow moving. I think technology has unleashed some obstacles, and democracy is struggling a bit. Ultimately no other nation has found a better way. Perhaps some western democracies have better execution, but the concept is the best we’ve got.
And yes, people who are focused on a roof and food, can be convinced by strong men. That’s not much of an endorsement.
“This authoritarianism is perfect for struggling people in sh——hole counties” isn’t the ringing endorsement.
Your needs typically need to be met before enlightenment can occur. That should be self evident.

k

It’s become painfully clear to certain people and countries that all places at the liberal democratic table are taken, and the only way to join is to eat scraps in the kitchen.
However, any other position sooner or later comes in contradiction with the club’s interests and those who dare to contradict are pushed to the brim, where becoming a dictatorship is ultimately the only option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op is spot on

Go raise your family in Russia. It will be so great.

Isn’t Russia a good-ish example? After the fall of communism, they had voting rights but the economy was miserable. Putin came to power and restored stability, including economic stability, which underpins his popular support. Individual freedoms were eroded. Clearly that didn’t suit everyone but it seems it suits the majority.

DP.
I think a good source of knowledge on how average Russians feel is the Trauma Zone documentary.

Basically, they believed in liberal democracy and were hoping they would live “no worse than those in the U.S. and Europe”. However it was very very different, and now there is disillusionment.
People are starting to understand that liberal democracies are an elite club, and a country can either join them at great costs, losing economic and industrial independence, becoming their second class citizen so to speak, or a country can adopt a government that is resistant to becoming basically a servant to the club. This government starts protecting the country’s geopolitical interests, which is in turn framed by The Club as tyranny and all the other bad things. This causes the government in question to resist even more and become an even worse guy in the eyes of the western media and public, and so the vicious circle begins.

TLDR: there are only two ways for a country today to improve its economic situation- either to become subservient to the U.S. or to become a bad guy (gradually) while trying to protect its economic and geopolitical interests.

Completely disagree with your analysis.

Many US allies are far from subservient to the US. Many of them disagree on trade and human rights issues but express that in appropriate forums such as WTO/ UN/ diplomatic talks.

Russians have never had a functioning democracy and life under both communism and then Putin’s weird empire mongering dictatorship have not been kind to a majority of Russians. The cost for them never having a liberal democracy are

Would never in a million years want to swap life with free press, messy democracy, and individual freedoms for life in a dictatorship.

The non-subservient allies are Western European countries, and even that can be disputed (but okay I’ll give it that).

There was at least 10 years, maybe more, of trying to build a functioning democracy in Russia (1990-2000 or so). Even the 2010s weren’t so bad yet. The problem is that most Russians are completely disillusioned by that decade. They also see what happened to the Baltics which went all in for democracy.

Finally, Russia would be totally ok and not a villain if the U.S. and Western Europe listened to them and stopped their NATO and EU expansion flirting with the countries bordering Russia.
However it simply could not have happened as the ultimate goal of any larger country or union is to stop other countries they perceive as threats from expanding their influence.

So, Russia could have let “the west” have Georgia, Ukraine, and Moldova. Or they had a a choice of becoming a contrarian and trying to stand their ground, which they did.
I think they have overestimated themselves and underestimated the clever PR and politics of the west, but the fact remains: it’s either doing what you are told and being a good friend or standing one’s ground and becoming the villain.

Again completely disagree.

Russia would have nothing to worry about from the NATO defense alliance if it did not plan on invading NATO countries.

Its latest aggressive foray into sovereign neighbor’s country reminded everyone everyone why NATO is essential to defending Western democracies from Russia’s insatiable lust for dominance in the world that is only matched by its indifference to the well being of ordinary citizens.

Putin is the villain because he acts with cynical disregard for international laws and human life as well as the needs of his own people. He is doubling his military budget at the expense of education, health and infrastructure so he can continue his illegal and immoral war in Ukraine.

It is not clever PR working against him but common human decency and common sense.

[Anonymous]

Russia tried democracy for 10 WHOLE YEARS!
My goodness, it’s remarkable they didn’t find success.
I’m positively shocked!
Democracy isn’t magic. It takes work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op is spot on

Go raise your family in Russia. It will be so great.

Isn’t Russia a good-ish example? After the fall of communism, they had voting rights but the economy was miserable. Putin came to power and restored stability, including economic stability, which underpins his popular support. Individual freedoms were eroded. Clearly that didn’t suit everyone but it seems it suits the majority.

DP.
I think a good source of knowledge on how average Russians feel is the Trauma Zone documentary.

Basically, they believed in liberal democracy and were hoping they would live “no worse than those in the U.S. and Europe”. However it was very very different, and now there is disillusionment.
People are starting to understand that liberal democracies are an elite club, and a country can either join them at great costs, losing economic and industrial independence, becoming their second class citizen so to speak, or a country can adopt a government that is resistant to becoming basically a servant to the club. This government starts protecting the country’s geopolitical interests, which is in turn framed by The Club as tyranny and all the other bad things. This causes the government in question to resist even more and become an even worse guy in the eyes of the western media and public, and so the vicious circle begins.

TLDR: there are only two ways for a country today to improve its economic situation- either to become subservient to the U.S. or to become a bad guy (gradually) while trying to protect its economic and geopolitical interests.

Completely disagree with your analysis.

Many US allies are far from subservient to the US. Many of them disagree on trade and human rights issues but express that in appropriate forums such as WTO/ UN/ diplomatic talks.

Russians have never had a functioning democracy and life under both communism and then Putin’s weird empire mongering dictatorship have not been kind to a majority of Russians. The cost for them never having a liberal democracy are

Would never in a million years want to swap life with free press, messy democracy, and individual freedoms for life in a dictatorship.

The non-subservient allies are Western European countries, and even that can be disputed (but okay I’ll give it that).

There was at least 10 years, maybe more, of trying to build a functioning democracy in Russia (1990-2000 or so). Even the 2010s weren’t so bad yet. The problem is that most Russians are completely disillusioned by that decade. They also see what happened to the Baltics which went all in for democracy.

Finally, Russia would be totally ok and not a villain if the U.S. and Western Europe listened to them and stopped their NATO and EU expansion flirting with the countries bordering Russia.
However it simply could not have happened as the ultimate goal of any larger country or union is to stop other countries they perceive as threats from expanding their influence.

So, Russia could have let “the west” have Georgia, Ukraine, and Moldova. Or they had a a choice of becoming a contrarian and trying to stand their ground, which they did.
I think they have overestimated themselves and underestimated the clever PR and politics of the west, but the fact remains: it’s either doing what you are told and being a good friend or standing one’s ground and becoming the villain.

Again completely disagree.

Russia would have nothing to worry about from the NATO defense alliance if it did not plan on invading NATO countries.

Its latest aggressive foray into sovereign neighbor’s country reminded everyone everyone why NATO is essential to defending Western democracies from Russia’s insatiable lust for dominance in the world that is only matched by its indifference to the well being of ordinary citizens.

Putin is the villain because he acts with cynical disregard for international laws and human life as well as the needs of his own people. He is doubling his military budget at the expense of education, health and infrastructure so he can continue his illegal and immoral war in Ukraine.

It is not clever PR working against him but common human decency and common sense.

Pretty much everyone who knows anything about the region agrees that NATO expansion led to the Ukraine war.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think liberal democracies are favored around the world but malevolent people with enough money and power have pushed false or misleading narratives in a way that support the rest of your narrative.

This! And the Israeli-Palestine conflict is complex and nuanced. Palestinians are not bad, Hamas is. Israel is not bad; it’s trying to survive in a region that wants it destroyed. There are numerous groups that hate each other and call that land home based on a long history of conflict/power changes.

Russia is bad however that is true. But they demographics don’t support being anything but a regional player in the coming future. Invading Ukraine is their last gasp.

Every conflict is complex and nuanced. Unless America or one of its treaty allies is directly attacked I really don’t think Americans have the right of declaring sides in someone else’s war. The American people’s thinking is very black and white and simplistic and Americans think they need to have an opinion on everything; every crisis anywhere is some existential threat to democracy. American foreign policy is rife with hypocrisy and contradiction. Around the world people see this and respond accordingly.

^^this. and it has nothing to do with “liberal democracy.”

America defends democracy in the world. Many Europeans feel America is becoming isolationist. They’re right to a certain extent we haven’t had a globalist president since HW Bush.

Central America would like a word.

Indeed. The United States is not some champion of democracy that the Americans like to imagine. For most of the world it is quite the opposite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op is spot on

Go raise your family in Russia. It will be so great.

Isn’t Russia a good-ish example? After the fall of communism, they had voting rights but the economy was miserable. Putin came to power and restored stability, including economic stability, which underpins his popular support. Individual freedoms were eroded. Clearly that didn’t suit everyone but it seems it suits the majority.

DP.
I think a good source of knowledge on how average Russians feel is the Trauma Zone documentary.

Basically, they believed in liberal democracy and were hoping they would live “no worse than those in the U.S. and Europe”. However it was very very different, and now there is disillusionment.
People are starting to understand that liberal democracies are an elite club, and a country can either join them at great costs, losing economic and industrial independence, becoming their second class citizen so to speak, or a country can adopt a government that is resistant to becoming basically a servant to the club. This government starts protecting the country’s geopolitical interests, which is in turn framed by The Club as tyranny and all the other bad things. This causes the government in question to resist even more and become an even worse guy in the eyes of the western media and public, and so the vicious circle begins.

TLDR: there are only two ways for a country today to improve its economic situation- either to become subservient to the U.S. or to become a bad guy (gradually) while trying to protect its economic and geopolitical interests.

Completely disagree with your analysis.

Many US allies are far from subservient to the US. Many of them disagree on trade and human rights issues but express that in appropriate forums such as WTO/ UN/ diplomatic talks.

Russians have never had a functioning democracy and life under both communism and then Putin’s weird empire mongering dictatorship have not been kind to a majority of Russians. The cost for them never having a liberal democracy are

Would never in a million years want to swap life with free press, messy democracy, and individual freedoms for life in a dictatorship.

The non-subservient allies are Western European countries, and even that can be disputed (but okay I’ll give it that).

There was at least 10 years, maybe more, of trying to build a functioning democracy in Russia (1990-2000 or so). Even the 2010s weren’t so bad yet. The problem is that most Russians are completely disillusioned by that decade. They also see what happened to the Baltics which went all in for democracy.

Finally, Russia would be totally ok and not a villain if the U.S. and Western Europe listened to them and stopped their NATO and EU expansion flirting with the countries bordering Russia.
However it simply could not have happened as the ultimate goal of any larger country or union is to stop other countries they perceive as threats from expanding their influence.

So, Russia could have let “the west” have Georgia, Ukraine, and Moldova. Or they had a a choice of becoming a contrarian and trying to stand their ground, which they did.
I think they have overestimated themselves and underestimated the clever PR and politics of the west, but the fact remains: it’s either doing what you are told and being a good friend or standing one’s ground and becoming the villain.

Again completely disagree.

Russia would have nothing to worry about from the NATO defense alliance if it did not plan on invading NATO countries.

Its latest aggressive foray into sovereign neighbor’s country reminded everyone everyone why NATO is essential to defending Western democracies from Russia’s insatiable lust for dominance in the world that is only matched by its indifference to the well being of ordinary citizens.

Putin is the villain because he acts with cynical disregard for international laws and human life as well as the needs of his own people. He is doubling his military budget at the expense of education, health and infrastructure so he can continue his illegal and immoral war in Ukraine.

It is not clever PR working against him but common human decency and common sense.

+1
Well said

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is much easier for people living in dictatorships without free press and fair elections to accept.

Thankfully we are not there yet. We need to value true freedoms - democracy with checks and balances, freedom of speech, free press, and independent branches of legislative, executive and judicial government and ability to pursue happiness.

As for living in dictatorships - Westerners have little idea how terrifying that would be. Where viable opposition and their supporters are either jailed, murdered or tortured - where critics of government can be sent to jail or re education camps and where competitive businesses are shut down if they don’t belong to cronies.

I think many posters are missing OP’s point and simply defending a US-centric perspective which is centred on the importance of individual human rights like freedom of speech, etc. Not everyone prioritises human rights in the same way. In some countries, the right to shelter, food, public safety or an economic livelihood might be seen as more important.

Yes, how strange for Americans to defend a U.S.-centric perspective. ?? Who are you people?

They are likely state sponsored and posting from the outskirts of Beijing or Moscow. The messaging as when Putin first invaded Ukraine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op is spot on

Go raise your family in Russia. It will be so great.

Isn’t Russia a good-ish example? After the fall of communism, they had voting rights but the economy was miserable. Putin came to power and restored stability, including economic stability, which underpins his popular support. Individual freedoms were eroded. Clearly that didn’t suit everyone but it seems it suits the majority.

DP.
I think a good source of knowledge on how average Russians feel is the Trauma Zone documentary.

Basically, they believed in liberal democracy and were hoping they would live “no worse than those in the U.S. and Europe”. However it was very very different, and now there is disillusionment.
People are starting to understand that liberal democracies are an elite club, and a country can either join them at great costs, losing economic and industrial independence, becoming their second class citizen so to speak, or a country can adopt a government that is resistant to becoming basically a servant to the club. This government starts protecting the country’s geopolitical interests, which is in turn framed by The Club as tyranny and all the other bad things. This causes the government in question to resist even more and become an even worse guy in the eyes of the western media and public, and so the vicious circle begins.

TLDR: there are only two ways for a country today to improve its economic situation- either to become subservient to the U.S. or to become a bad guy (gradually) while trying to protect its economic and geopolitical interests.

Completely disagree with your analysis.

Many US allies are far from subservient to the US. Many of them disagree on trade and human rights issues but express that in appropriate forums such as WTO/ UN/ diplomatic talks.

Russians have never had a functioning democracy and life under both communism and then Putin’s weird empire mongering dictatorship have not been kind to a majority of Russians. The cost for them never having a liberal democracy are

Would never in a million years want to swap life with free press, messy democracy, and individual freedoms for life in a dictatorship.

The non-subservient allies are Western European countries, and even that can be disputed (but okay I’ll give it that).

There was at least 10 years, maybe more, of trying to build a functioning democracy in Russia (1990-2000 or so). Even the 2010s weren’t so bad yet. The problem is that most Russians are completely disillusioned by that decade. They also see what happened to the Baltics which went all in for democracy.

Finally, Russia would be totally ok and not a villain if the U.S. and Western Europe listened to them and stopped their NATO and EU expansion flirting with the countries bordering Russia.
However it simply could not have happened as the ultimate goal of any larger country or union is to stop other countries they perceive as threats from expanding their influence.

So, Russia could have let “the west” have Georgia, Ukraine, and Moldova. Or they had a a choice of becoming a contrarian and trying to stand their ground, which they did.
I think they have overestimated themselves and underestimated the clever PR and politics of the west, but the fact remains: it’s either doing what you are told and being a good friend or standing one’s ground and becoming the villain.

Again completely disagree.

Russia would have nothing to worry about from the NATO defense alliance if it did not plan on invading NATO countries.

Its latest aggressive foray into sovereign neighbor’s country reminded everyone everyone why NATO is essential to defending Western democracies from Russia’s insatiable lust for dominance in the world that is only matched by its indifference to the well being of ordinary citizens.

Putin is the villain because he acts with cynical disregard for international laws and human life as well as the needs of his own people. He is doubling his military budget at the expense of education, health and infrastructure so he can continue his illegal and immoral war in Ukraine.

It is not clever PR working against him but common human decency and common sense.

Pretty much everyone who knows anything about the region agrees that NATO expansion led to the Ukraine war.

Pretty much that’s an RT talking point that’s not gonna fly here. Also, there is an entire thread dedicated to Ukraine and you can take it over there. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are good observations and you may be right that people would rather have a government that delivers stability, even at the cost of lost freedoms. Other PPs have brought up good points also, especially the one that maybe liberal democracies require broad prosperity to function, which can only be attained by exploiting less prosperous nations.

However, you're mixing up cultural relativism with form of government. We should never accept misogyny to the level that rape victims are forced to marry their rapists, no matter the form of government they live under

We don't live under such a system, so we don't have to "accept" it. But we also aren't morally required to spend our treasure and blood to get rid of it.

You say “we don’t live u set such a system”
- so are you living in Russia or Stan country or former USSR country?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op is spot on

Go raise your family in Russia. It will be so great.

Isn’t Russia a good-ish example? After the fall of communism, they had voting rights but the economy was miserable. Putin came to power and restored stability, including economic stability, which underpins his popular support. Individual freedoms were eroded. Clearly that didn’t suit everyone but it seems it suits the majority.

DP.
I think a good source of knowledge on how average Russians feel is the Trauma Zone documentary.

Basically, they believed in liberal democracy and were hoping they would live “no worse than those in the U.S. and Europe”. However it was very very different, and now there is disillusionment.
People are starting to understand that liberal democracies are an elite club, and a country can either join them at great costs, losing economic and industrial independence, becoming their second class citizen so to speak, or a country can adopt a government that is resistant to becoming basically a servant to the club. This government starts protecting the country’s geopolitical interests, which is in turn framed by The Club as tyranny and all the other bad things. This causes the government in question to resist even more and become an even worse guy in the eyes of the western media and public, and so the vicious circle begins.

TLDR: there are only two ways for a country today to improve its economic situation- either to become subservient to the U.S. or to become a bad guy (gradually) while trying to protect its economic and geopolitical interests.

Completely disagree with your analysis.

Many US allies are far from subservient to the US. Many of them disagree on trade and human rights issues but express that in appropriate forums such as WTO/ UN/ diplomatic talks.

Russians have never had a functioning democracy and life under both communism and then Putin’s weird empire mongering dictatorship have not been kind to a majority of Russians. The cost for them never having a liberal democracy are

Would never in a million years want to swap life with free press, messy democracy, and individual freedoms for life in a dictatorship.

The non-subservient allies are Western European countries, and even that can be disputed (but okay I’ll give it that).

There was at least 10 years, maybe more, of trying to build a functioning democracy in Russia (1990-2000 or so). Even the 2010s weren’t so bad yet. The problem is that most Russians are completely disillusioned by that decade. They also see what happened to the Baltics which went all in for democracy.

Finally, Russia would be totally ok and not a villain if the U.S. and Western Europe listened to them and stopped their NATO and EU expansion flirting with the countries bordering Russia.
However it simply could not have happened as the ultimate goal of any larger country or union is to stop other countries they perceive as threats from expanding their influence.

So, Russia could have let “the west” have Georgia, Ukraine, and Moldova. Or they had a a choice of becoming a contrarian and trying to stand their ground, which they did.
I think they have overestimated themselves and underestimated the clever PR and politics of the west, but the fact remains: it’s either doing what you are told and being a good friend or standing one’s ground and becoming the villain.

Again completely disagree.

Russia would have nothing to worry about from the NATO defense alliance if it did not plan on invading NATO countries.

Its latest aggressive foray into sovereign neighbor’s country reminded everyone everyone why NATO is essential to defending Western democracies from Russia’s insatiable lust for dominance in the world that is only matched by its indifference to the well being of ordinary citizens.

Putin is the villain because he acts with cynical disregard for international laws and human life as well as the needs of his own people. He is doubling his military budget at the expense of education, health and infrastructure so he can continue his illegal and immoral war in Ukraine.

It is not clever PR working against him but common human decency and common sense.

Pretty much everyone who knows anything about the region agrees that NATO expansion led to the Ukraine war.

Pretty much only a Russian misinformation agents believe that take …