WaPo: H Street birth to death

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been thinking this for a while. H street was on the rise for many years, then it kind of plateaued and now its on the decline. Its really quite sad and I don't see it rebounding. Pot shops, mini marts and fast food take out counters don't make a neighborhood. I do think competition from Navy Yard and the Warf contributed but crime is real. The packs of people standing around intersections smoking pot don't make for a very appealing destination. Whole Foods is the only thing holding it together.

Smoking pot on public space is illegal. That would be an easy quality of life issue for DC to address, as it reflects lawlessness.

I live two blocks from H and go there regularly. It's not the hellhole some people here think it is, and it's way better than it was 10 years ago, but no one is denying the problems. DC needs to enforce the marajuana laws. It's illegal to sell pot, but the "gifting" shops are doing exactly that. There were plans in 2022 to start to enforce the laws, but they were delayed (https://www.dcnewsnow.com/news/local-news/washington-dc/dc-delays-inspecting-marijuana-gifting-shops-promises-crackdown-still-coming/) and I haven't heard anything lately.

I disagree. It's definitely worse than 2013. Honestly it's even worse than when I moved here in 2003. It wasn't vibrant then, but there wasn't so much random violent crime either.

There wasn't "random violent crime" in 2003 because H street was an open air drug market where people came to do heroine in 2003. You couldn't even take cabs to H Street in 2003 because cab drivers would throw you out of the cab. Most of the street was boarded up. If you honestly think it's worse now, you either have a poor memory or you were one of the people on heroine back then.

Also, H streets' development was uneven. In 2010, most of H street was very sketchy but there were a few blocks of lively nightlife (like 11th to 14th) and it was a destination for people so it felt safer because there were people around, businesses were open. The rest of the strip was boarded up or it was businesses like that big storage facility or that grocery store (Harvey's? I can't remember?).

Then the area close to Union Station blossomed when that development with the Giant went in. There were a cluster of restaurants and bars that went in around 4th and H around this time. Boundary Road was the big one (the Obamas went to dinner there at some point). Sidamo, Ethiopic, the place that was in Big Board before Big Board, then Big Board. That French place Le Grenier (now I think it's called Irregardless but similar concept). At this point, that close in part of H Street was the "nicest" part, and then you had nightlife at the other end, and in between was sketchy.

Then the Whole Foods went in and that shifted everything. You could actually walk from one end of H to the other without hitting a super sketchy block. The intersection at 8th and H remain questionable, but mostly people felt safe even with some crime and homelessness.

The difference between 2003 and 2017 or 2019 was night and day. Number of businesses, safety, nightlife. Total turnaround.

Since 2019 it's gotten worse, but the mainstays of that improvement are still there -- the grocery stores, a bunch of national chains that have held up find (Nando's Starbucks, Orange Theory Fitness). Some fancy places still doing well (Stable, Maketto, Fancy Radish). And a ton of new places.

But overall traffic in businesses is down, crime is up, and it's less pleasant overall. It needs to be addressed.

But the idea that it's worse now than 10 years ago, or 20 years ago, is just dumb. It is objectively better. There are problems, but it's objectively better.

The restaurant scene doesn’t seem to be slowing down although it hasn’t grown the way you might have expected. Ubers now take the place of the taxis or shuttle you used to have to catch. I’d like to see more visible patroling on Friday and Saturday nights.

Is there anything that can be done to fill in the vacant storefronts? Are landlords just holding onto the buildings instead of renting? That should be discouraged through the tax code.

It was odd that the article didn't mention new restaurants that have opened on H St NE recently. Hiraya most recently, (and it's amazing and delicious!), was boosted in Bon Appetit and Eater.

I live near H St, feel maaybe slightly more uncomfortable there than I used to, but it was also uncomfortable to go out there back when it was only a few restaurants (I remember trekking over to Granville Moores and Rock 'n Roll Hotel early on when it wasn't yet a thing to go there). There's also a lot of cannibalization as there are so many other neighborhood hot spots now; NOMA wasn't a thing back then.

That's not to say that crime, vandalism, and vagrancy aren't an issue that needs to be addressed - they do. I also feel more uncomfortable in lots of places in the city due to the same issues, just because I'm aware of the percentage increase in crime. I see many car jackings occurring on Capitol Hill too.

It hasn’t gone downhill because it always sucked is quite the rationalization.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been thinking this for a while. H street was on the rise for many years, then it kind of plateaued and now its on the decline. Its really quite sad and I don't see it rebounding. Pot shops, mini marts and fast food take out counters don't make a neighborhood. I do think competition from Navy Yard and the Warf contributed but crime is real. The packs of people standing around intersections smoking pot don't make for a very appealing destination. Whole Foods is the only thing holding it together.

Smoking pot on public space is illegal. That would be an easy quality of life issue for DC to address, as it reflects lawlessness.

I live two blocks from H and go there regularly. It's not the hellhole some people here think it is, and it's way better than it was 10 years ago, but no one is denying the problems. DC needs to enforce the marajuana laws. It's illegal to sell pot, but the "gifting" shops are doing exactly that. There were plans in 2022 to start to enforce the laws, but they were delayed (https://www.dcnewsnow.com/news/local-news/washington-dc/dc-delays-inspecting-marijuana-gifting-shops-promises-crackdown-still-coming/) and I haven't heard anything lately.

I disagree. It's definitely worse than 2013. Honestly it's even worse than when I moved here in 2003. It wasn't vibrant then, but there wasn't so much random violent crime either.

There wasn't "random violent crime" in 2003 because H street was an open air drug market where people came to do heroine in 2003. You couldn't even take cabs to H Street in 2003 because cab drivers would throw you out of the cab. Most of the street was boarded up. If you honestly think it's worse now, you either have a poor memory or you were one of the people on heroine back then.

Also, H streets' development was uneven. In 2010, most of H street was very sketchy but there were a few blocks of lively nightlife (like 11th to 14th) and it was a destination for people so it felt safer because there were people around, businesses were open. The rest of the strip was boarded up or it was businesses like that big storage facility or that grocery store (Harvey's? I can't remember?).

Then the area close to Union Station blossomed when that development with the Giant went in. There were a cluster of restaurants and bars that went in around 4th and H around this time. Boundary Road was the big one (the Obamas went to dinner there at some point). Sidamo, Ethiopic, the place that was in Big Board before Big Board, then Big Board. That French place Le Grenier (now I think it's called Irregardless but similar concept). At this point, that close in part of H Street was the "nicest" part, and then you had nightlife at the other end, and in between was sketchy.

Then the Whole Foods went in and that shifted everything. You could actually walk from one end of H to the other without hitting a super sketchy block. The intersection at 8th and H remain questionable, but mostly people felt safe even with some crime and homelessness.

The difference between 2003 and 2017 or 2019 was night and day. Number of businesses, safety, nightlife. Total turnaround.

Since 2019 it's gotten worse, but the mainstays of that improvement are still there -- the grocery stores, a bunch of national chains that have held up find (Nando's Starbucks, Orange Theory Fitness). Some fancy places still doing well (Stable, Maketto, Fancy Radish). And a ton of new places.

But overall traffic in businesses is down, crime is up, and it's less pleasant overall. It needs to be addressed.

But the idea that it's worse now than 10 years ago, or 20 years ago, is just dumb. It is objectively better. There are problems, but it's objectively better.

The restaurant scene doesn’t seem to be slowing down although it hasn’t grown the way you might have expected. Ubers now take the place of the taxis or shuttle you used to have to catch. I’d like to see more visible patroling on Friday and Saturday nights.

Is there anything that can be done to fill in the vacant storefronts? Are landlords just holding onto the buildings instead of renting? That should be discouraged through the tax code.

It was odd that the article didn't mention new restaurants that have opened on H St NE recently. Hiraya most recently, (and it's amazing and delicious!), was boosted in Bon Appetit and Eater.

I live near H St, feel maaybe slightly more uncomfortable there than I used to, but it was also uncomfortable to go out there back when it was only a few restaurants (I remember trekking over to Granville Moores and Rock 'n Roll Hotel early on when it wasn't yet a thing to go there). There's also a lot of cannibalization as there are so many other neighborhood hot spots now; NOMA wasn't a thing back then.

That's not to say that crime, vandalism, and vagrancy aren't an issue that needs to be addressed - they do. I also feel more uncomfortable in lots of places in the city due to the same issues, just because I'm aware of the percentage increase in crime. I see many car jackings occurring on Capitol Hill too.

It hasn’t gone downhill because it always sucked is quite the rationalization.

It changed slightly over the years, it was always "edgy" so to speak. But H St is not unique in the trends happening all over the city, and it's fair to critique the article for not making any note of new restaurants opening recently, the Nike store that just opened, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been thinking this for a while. H street was on the rise for many years, then it kind of plateaued and now its on the decline. Its really quite sad and I don't see it rebounding. Pot shops, mini marts and fast food take out counters don't make a neighborhood. I do think competition from Navy Yard and the Warf contributed but crime is real. The packs of people standing around intersections smoking pot don't make for a very appealing destination. Whole Foods is the only thing holding it together.

Smoking pot on public space is illegal. That would be an easy quality of life issue for DC to address, as it reflects lawlessness.

I live two blocks from H and go there regularly. It's not the hellhole some people here think it is, and it's way better than it was 10 years ago, but no one is denying the problems. DC needs to enforce the marajuana laws. It's illegal to sell pot, but the "gifting" shops are doing exactly that. There were plans in 2022 to start to enforce the laws, but they were delayed (https://www.dcnewsnow.com/news/local-news/washington-dc/dc-delays-inspecting-marijuana-gifting-shops-promises-crackdown-still-coming/) and I haven't heard anything lately.

I disagree. It's definitely worse than 2013. Honestly it's even worse than when I moved here in 2003. It wasn't vibrant then, but there wasn't so much random violent crime either.

There wasn't "random violent crime" in 2003 because H street was an open air drug market where people came to do heroine in 2003. You couldn't even take cabs to H Street in 2003 because cab drivers would throw you out of the cab. Most of the street was boarded up. If you honestly think it's worse now, you either have a poor memory or you were one of the people on heroine back then.

Also, H streets' development was uneven. In 2010, most of H street was very sketchy but there were a few blocks of lively nightlife (like 11th to 14th) and it was a destination for people so it felt safer because there were people around, businesses were open. The rest of the strip was boarded up or it was businesses like that big storage facility or that grocery store (Harvey's? I can't remember?).

Then the area close to Union Station blossomed when that development with the Giant went in. There were a cluster of restaurants and bars that went in around 4th and H around this time. Boundary Road was the big one (the Obamas went to dinner there at some point). Sidamo, Ethiopic, the place that was in Big Board before Big Board, then Big Board. That French place Le Grenier (now I think it's called Irregardless but similar concept). At this point, that close in part of H Street was the "nicest" part, and then you had nightlife at the other end, and in between was sketchy.

Then the Whole Foods went in and that shifted everything. You could actually walk from one end of H to the other without hitting a super sketchy block. The intersection at 8th and H remain questionable, but mostly people felt safe even with some crime and homelessness.

The difference between 2003 and 2017 or 2019 was night and day. Number of businesses, safety, nightlife. Total turnaround.

Since 2019 it's gotten worse, but the mainstays of that improvement are still there -- the grocery stores, a bunch of national chains that have held up find (Nando's Starbucks, Orange Theory Fitness). Some fancy places still doing well (Stable, Maketto, Fancy Radish). And a ton of new places.

But overall traffic in businesses is down, crime is up, and it's less pleasant overall. It needs to be addressed.

But the idea that it's worse now than 10 years ago, or 20 years ago, is just dumb. It is objectively better. There are problems, but it's objectively better.

The restaurant scene doesn’t seem to be slowing down although it hasn’t grown the way you might have expected. Ubers now take the place of the taxis or shuttle you used to have to catch. I’d like to see more visible patroling on Friday and Saturday nights.

Is there anything that can be done to fill in the vacant storefronts? Are landlords just holding onto the buildings instead of renting? That should be discouraged through the tax code.

It was odd that the article didn't mention new restaurants that have opened on H St NE recently. Hiraya most recently, (and it's amazing and delicious!), was boosted in Bon Appetit and Eater.

I live near H St, feel maaybe slightly more uncomfortable there than I used to, but it was also uncomfortable to go out there back when it was only a few restaurants (I remember trekking over to Granville Moores and Rock 'n Roll Hotel early on when it wasn't yet a thing to go there). There's also a lot of cannibalization as there are so many other neighborhood hot spots now; NOMA wasn't a thing back then.

That's not to say that crime, vandalism, and vagrancy aren't an issue that needs to be addressed - they do. I also feel more uncomfortable in lots of places in the city due to the same issues, just because I'm aware of the percentage increase in crime. I see many car jackings occurring on Capitol Hill too.

It hasn’t gone downhill because it always sucked is quite the rationalization.

It changed slightly over the years, it was always "edgy" so to speak. But H St is not unique in the trends happening all over the city, and it's fair to critique the article for not making any note of new restaurants opening recently, the Nike store that just opened, etc.

NOMA and Ivy City weren't places to go several years ago. There is some degree of cannibalization happening. The entire past 10-15 years have been an explosion of "x is the new hot neighborhood"

[Anonymous]

I know that this is not a pot thread but I feel like I was lied to about the city's role after the pot regulation was passed. I would never have voted for the decriminalization had I known that DC would allow people to simply smoke walking down the street or in public parks. I feel naive having fallen for the rhetoric years ago from the decriminalization crowd.

Ad me to the list of voters who would vote to repeal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is insane to claim that H street is better now than 10 years ago. It was significantly better than. The decline since 2020 is fairly staggering.

Totally agree. I would say it even started before 2020 but the decline since 2020 has been quick and fierce. DH and I were just taking bets on how long till Whole Food closes. It's the only thing propping it up. Seems like Giant is dying to leave.

Lol neither of those stores is going anywhere. Houses in the area sell for a million. Grocery chains like WF go on demographics and cost of housing, average SES of residents, and proximity to Capitol Hill all say H Street is still a good investment for them.

But they have all of that in their navy yard location.

They also have all that in their Logan Circle location. They have all that in their Shaw location. What's your point? The lines wrapping around the store at the H street location at nearly all hours of the day suggests they have more than enough foot traffic even with other Whole Foods locations within close proximity.

My point was if the H Street location closes, they'll still get the rich Capitol Hill folks to travel to Navy Yard - it's just as easy to access for the same people. Hence I think they're going to abandon H Street in short order if things don't turn around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is insane to claim that H street is better now than 10 years ago. It was significantly better than. The decline since 2020 is fairly staggering.

Totally agree. I would say it even started before 2020 but the decline since 2020 has been quick and fierce. DH and I were just taking bets on how long till Whole Food closes. It's the only thing propping it up. Seems like Giant is dying to leave.

Lol neither of those stores is going anywhere. Houses in the area sell for a million. Grocery chains like WF go on demographics and cost of housing, average SES of residents, and proximity to Capitol Hill all say H Street is still a good investment for them.

But they have all of that in their navy yard location.

They also have all that in their Logan Circle location. They have all that in their Shaw location. What's your point? The lines wrapping around the store at the H street location at nearly all hours of the day suggests they have more than enough foot traffic even with other Whole Foods locations within close proximity.

My point was if the H Street location closes, they'll still get the rich Capitol Hill folks to travel to Navy Yard - it's just as easy to access for the same people. Hence I think they're going to abandon H Street in short order if things don't turn around.

Things will never turn around because these destination entertainment venues rely on people traveling there to sustain themselves and as a result require either good transit access or abundant parking. H Street has neither while Navy Yard has both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know that this is not a pot thread but I feel like I was lied to about the city's role after the pot regulation was passed. I would never have voted for the decriminalization had I known that DC would allow people to simply smoke walking down the street or in public parks. I feel naive having fallen for the rhetoric years ago from the decriminalization crowd.

Ad me to the list of voters who would vote to repeal.

I’m not trying to be mean, but you really didn’t see that coming? I voted against in Maryland. People are driving while smoking pot, smoking right outside stores and homes, but I can’t get upset about it because then you’re the bad guy.

I hope citizens wake up and repeal these poorly thought out laws.

[Anonymous]

Add me to the "I would vote to repeal crowd."

I had no idea the law cam with zero controls in place by the city. And it never occurred to me that it would just be OK to smoke pot driving down Wisconsin Ave or sitting in a bus stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is insane to claim that H street is better now than 10 years ago. It was significantly better than. The decline since 2020 is fairly staggering.

Totally agree. I would say it even started before 2020 but the decline since 2020 has been quick and fierce. DH and I were just taking bets on how long till Whole Food closes. It's the only thing propping it up. Seems like Giant is dying to leave.

Lol neither of those stores is going anywhere. Houses in the area sell for a million. Grocery chains like WF go on demographics and cost of housing, average SES of residents, and proximity to Capitol Hill all say H Street is still a good investment for them.

But they have all of that in their navy yard location.

They also have all that in their Logan Circle location. They have all that in their Shaw location. What's your point? The lines wrapping around the store at the H street location at nearly all hours of the day suggests they have more than enough foot traffic even with other Whole Foods locations within close proximity.

My point was if the H Street location closes, they'll still get the rich Capitol Hill folks to travel to Navy Yard - it's just as easy to access for the same people. Hence I think they're going to abandon H Street in short order if things don't turn around.

I’ll keep on going to H St as long as it has good restaurants, cafea and grocery stores. But I’d go a lot more if it felt safer and less sketchy. It somehow feels sketchier during the day because there are fewer people, even on the weekends.

H St is also just not a very nice public space design. Leaving aside the boarded up windows, the sidewalks are narrow and there are no trees, and the road has fast moving traffic. In retrospect the street car was a huge mistake because it effectively made traffic calming (which can also beautify) much harder. It’s weird, there are little spots that are fun and vibrant (like outside Jerk at Night) but the overall feeling is not cohesive or friendly at all. It’s not really a strip to go out on, meander, and stay - it’s become more where you Uber to your restaurant and Uber home. No wonder Union Market is more popular.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Add me to the "I would vote to repeal crowd."

I had no idea the law cam with zero controls in place by the city. And it never occurred to me that it would just be OK to smoke pot driving down Wisconsin Ave or sitting in a bus stop.

Yep. I am SUPER mad the city will not do anything about the illegal “gifting” stores - both the crime they attract and the concentration on certain blocks. At a minimum the DC AG should bust them for distributing edibles packages to look like candy - very dangerous for kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:20 Pot shops on the corridor? Wow. So why is there also " corner boy" pot dealing? Shouldn't the 20 shops eliminate the need for illegal dealing?

Police chief says "Gimme 30 days..." if she can solve this in 30 days she needs to be voted Mayor. "

I could solve this in 72 hours.

The question is, will you stay home instead of protesting it?

+1000

[Anonymous]

I'm another long-timer who voted 'Yes' for decriminalization and wish I hadn't.

I used to spend time in legal Colorado every year hiking and skiing, and figured DC would play out like Denver with the well-run dispensaries and a population that generally respects the social compact. Ergo, my 'Yes' vote.

What I DIDN'T foresee is: the smallest MPD force in decades, the jails turning out all residents to the streets re: Covid, whoever TF this clown AG is, and especially, the seismic backlash to apparently all policing, ever, because a demonstrably psychotic cop killed a man in the Midwest who was Black.

Honestly, I feel like if George Floyed, rest his soul, were Hmong instead of Black -- but everything else was as it was -- we wouldn't have utter lawlessness in every big blue US city in 2023.

[Anonymous]

*Floyd

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is insane to claim that H street is better now than 10 years ago. It was significantly better than. The decline since 2020 is fairly staggering.

Totally agree. I would say it even started before 2020 but the decline since 2020 has been quick and fierce. DH and I were just taking bets on how long till Whole Food closes. It's the only thing propping it up. Seems like Giant is dying to leave.

Lol neither of those stores is going anywhere. Houses in the area sell for a million. Grocery chains like WF go on demographics and cost of housing, average SES of residents, and proximity to Capitol Hill all say H Street is still a good investment for them.

But they have all of that in their navy yard location.

They also have all that in their Logan Circle location. They have all that in their Shaw location. What's your point? The lines wrapping around the store at the H street location at nearly all hours of the day suggests they have more than enough foot traffic even with other Whole Foods locations within close proximity.

My point was if the H Street location closes, they'll still get the rich Capitol Hill folks to travel to Navy Yard - it's just as easy to access for the same people. Hence I think they're going to abandon H Street in short order if things don't turn around.

I’ll keep on going to H St as long as it has good restaurants, cafea and grocery stores. But I’d go a lot more if it felt safer and less sketchy. It somehow feels sketchier during the day because there are fewer people, even on the weekends.

H St is also just not a very nice public space design. Leaving aside the boarded up windows, the sidewalks are narrow and there are no trees, and the road has fast moving traffic. In retrospect the street car was a huge mistake because it effectively made traffic calming (which can also beautify) much harder. It’s weird, there are little spots that are fun and vibrant (like outside Jerk at Night) but the overall feeling is not cohesive or friendly at all. It’s not really a strip to go out on, meander, and stay - it’s become more where you Uber to your restaurant and Uber home. No wonder Union Market is more popular.

A lot of us were screaming it was a giant money giveaway to connected insiders at the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm another long-timer who voted 'Yes' for decriminalization and wish I hadn't.

I used to spend time in legal Colorado every year hiking and skiing, and figured DC would play out like Denver with the well-run dispensaries and a population that generally respects the social compact. Ergo, my 'Yes' vote.

What I DIDN'T foresee is: the smallest MPD force in decades, the jails turning out all residents to the streets re: Covid, whoever TF this clown AG is, and especially, the seismic backlash to apparently all policing, ever, because a demonstrably psychotic cop killed a man in the Midwest who was Black.

Honestly, I feel like if George Floyed, rest his soul, were Hmong instead of Black -- but everything else was as it was -- we wouldn't have utter lawlessness in every big blue US city in 2023.

It’s pretty well known among anyone in medicine he OD’d on fentanyl.