WaPo: H Street birth to death

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been thinking this for a while. H street was on the rise for many years, then it kind of plateaued and now its on the decline. Its really quite sad and I don't see it rebounding. Pot shops, mini marts and fast food take out counters don't make a neighborhood. I do think competition from Navy Yard and the Warf contributed but crime is real. The packs of people standing around intersections smoking pot don't make for a very appealing destination. Whole Foods is the only thing holding it together.

Smoking pot on public space is illegal. That would be an easy quality of life issue for DC to address, as it reflects lawlessness.

I live two blocks from H and go there regularly. It's not the hellhole some people here think it is, and it's way better than it was 10 years ago, but no one is denying the problems. DC needs to enforce the marajuana laws. It's illegal to sell pot, but the "gifting" shops are doing exactly that. There were plans in 2022 to start to enforce the laws, but they were delayed (https://www.dcnewsnow.com/news/local-news/washington-dc/dc-delays-inspecting-marijuana-gifting-shops-promises-crackdown-still-coming/) and I haven't heard anything lately.

I disagree. It's definitely worse than 2013. Honestly it's even worse than when I moved here in 2003. It wasn't vibrant then, but there wasn't so much random violent crime either.

Hate to say it, but think I agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been thinking this for a while. H street was on the rise for many years, then it kind of plateaued and now its on the decline. Its really quite sad and I don't see it rebounding. Pot shops, mini marts and fast food take out counters don't make a neighborhood. I do think competition from Navy Yard and the Warf contributed but crime is real. The packs of people standing around intersections smoking pot don't make for a very appealing destination. Whole Foods is the only thing holding it together.

Smoking pot on public space is illegal. That would be an easy quality of life issue for DC to address, as it reflects lawlessness.

I live two blocks from H and go there regularly. It's not the hellhole some people here think it is, and it's way better than it was 10 years ago, but no one is denying the problems. DC needs to enforce the marajuana laws. It's illegal to sell pot, but the "gifting" shops are doing exactly that. There were plans in 2022 to start to enforce the laws, but they were delayed (https://www.dcnewsnow.com/news/local-news/washington-dc/dc-delays-inspecting-marijuana-gifting-shops-promises-crackdown-still-coming/) and I haven't heard anything lately.

I disagree. It's definitely worse than 2013. Honestly it's even worse than when I moved here in 2003. It wasn't vibrant then, but there wasn't so much random violent crime either.

There wasn't "random violent crime" in 2003 because H street was an open air drug market where people came to do heroine in 2003. You couldn't even take cabs to H Street in 2003 because cab drivers would throw you out of the cab. Most of the street was boarded up. If you honestly think it's worse now, you either have a poor memory or you were one of the people on heroine back then.

Also, H streets' development was uneven. In 2010, most of H street was very sketchy but there were a few blocks of lively nightlife (like 11th to 14th) and it was a destination for people so it felt safer because there were people around, businesses were open. The rest of the strip was boarded up or it was businesses like that big storage facility or that grocery store (Harvey's? I can't remember?).

Then the area close to Union Station blossomed when that development with the Giant went in. There were a cluster of restaurants and bars that went in around 4th and H around this time. Boundary Road was the big one (the Obamas went to dinner there at some point). Sidamo, Ethiopic, the place that was in Big Board before Big Board, then Big Board. That French place Le Grenier (now I think it's called Irregardless but similar concept). At this point, that close in part of H Street was the "nicest" part, and then you had nightlife at the other end, and in between was sketchy.

Then the Whole Foods went in and that shifted everything. You could actually walk from one end of H to the other without hitting a super sketchy block. The intersection at 8th and H remain questionable, but mostly people felt safe even with some crime and homelessness.

The difference between 2003 and 2017 or 2019 was night and day. Number of businesses, safety, nightlife. Total turnaround.

Since 2019 it's gotten worse, but the mainstays of that improvement are still there -- the grocery stores, a bunch of national chains that have held up find (Nando's Starbucks, Orange Theory Fitness). Some fancy places still doing well (Stable, Maketto, Fancy Radish). And a ton of new places.

But overall traffic in businesses is down, crime is up, and it's less pleasant overall. It needs to be addressed.

But the idea that it's worse now than 10 years ago, or 20 years ago, is just dumb. It is objectively better. There are problems, but it's objectively better.

To the bolded - that was exactly my point. If you minded your d*** business, no body bothered you. Now there are muggings and beatings and carjackings in addition to the drugs. It's worse. Whole Foods and some people dumb enough to pay 4k to rent in a high rise doesn't make it better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm all for legalizing marijuana, but 20 quasi-legal weed shops in a 13-block stretch is overkill. And I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done about the intersection of 8th and H, because of the two major bus lines that intersect there. It's been an issue for decades, even during times when crime was comparatively low. I though tearing down that janky strip mall and replacing it with mixed-use would change things for the better, but it's only gotten worse.

Pot shops are like check cashing stores and pawn shops. They're the bottom feeders of local businesses. If they're moving in, you know things are not going well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is insane to claim that H street is better now than 10 years ago. It was significantly better than. The decline since 2020 is fairly staggering.

Totally agree. I would say it even started before 2020 but the decline since 2020 has been quick and fierce. DH and I were just taking bets on how long till Whole Food closes. It's the only thing propping it up. Seems like Giant is dying to leave.

Lol neither of those stores is going anywhere. Houses in the area sell for a million. Grocery chains like WF go on demographics and cost of housing, average SES of residents, and proximity to Capitol Hill all say H Street is still a good investment for them.

But they have all of that in their navy yard location.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is insane to claim that H street is better now than 10 years ago. It was significantly better than. The decline since 2020 is fairly staggering.

Totally agree. I would say it even started before 2020 but the decline since 2020 has been quick and fierce. DH and I were just taking bets on how long till Whole Food closes. It's the only thing propping it up. Seems like Giant is dying to leave.

Lol neither of those stores is going anywhere. Houses in the area sell for a million. Grocery chains like WF go on demographics and cost of housing, average SES of residents, and proximity to Capitol Hill all say H Street is still a good investment for them.

But they have all of that in their navy yard location.

They also have all that in their Logan Circle location. They have all that in their Shaw location. What's your point? The lines wrapping around the store at the H street location at nearly all hours of the day suggests they have more than enough foot traffic even with other Whole Foods locations within close proximity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh God, here comes the "but H St is so vibrant" crowd. "The pot smell is freedom and equality, I love it". "The urine is just authenticity." "Stop making the crime stats up, DC is safe!"

And my favorite, "shoplifting and vandalism is a victimless crime. The insurance company will replace the glass and inventory!"

or, "they only steal because of inequity"--really, a group of teens wrecking CVS daily?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm all for legalizing marijuana, but 20 quasi-legal weed shops in a 13-block stretch is overkill. And I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done about the intersection of 8th and H, because of the two major bus lines that intersect there. It's been an issue for decades, even during times when crime was comparatively low. I though tearing down that janky strip mall and replacing it with mixed-use would change things for the better, but it's only gotten worse.

Very much agree with both of these comments. I'm at the point where I actually regret legalizing marijuana in DC and normally I'm very "live and let live" on that issue. But head shops on H street combined with the near constant smell of marijuana in the corridor have changed my mind. I have lived in other place with legalized weed and it's not like this. I think people like Eleanor Holmes Norton who opposed the legalization have been proven right -- the existing substance abuse and mental health issues in the District have made legal weed a huge problem, and I'd support an initiative to shut it down at this point.

But short of that, addressing the loophole that allows all these businesses to "give away" marijuana to people who buy other items would help. People line up outside these business day and night, congregate and drink and smoke, get in fights, etc. It's a massive problem.

8th and H Street needs a full time police presence and some kind of disruption event. I actually think they should streetscape, but have the construction take forever, and then while that's happening neighborhood groups come and take it over. Those people need to go somewhere else. Shelters, the unemployment office, home -- there is absolutely no reason for 40-50 people (many of whom do not appear to be homeless) to be congregate on those corners daily. Not to transform myself into a stereotype, but: Get a job.

The smell of weed is now evident in my kids elem school, so much that the school is now concerned about kids with asthma being impacted. The school is next to a large public housing site which may be part of the issue but also a lot of weed smoking on the playing fields in the evening. Its disgusting and even the kids complain.

[Anonymous]

The article shows that MPD has rightly stepped up foot patrols and regular check in with businesses on H Street. That’s exactly what other neighborhoods with commercial areas plagued by crime has been asking for - with no response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been thinking this for a while. H street was on the rise for many years, then it kind of plateaued and now its on the decline. Its really quite sad and I don't see it rebounding. Pot shops, mini marts and fast food take out counters don't make a neighborhood. I do think competition from Navy Yard and the Warf contributed but crime is real. The packs of people standing around intersections smoking pot don't make for a very appealing destination. Whole Foods is the only thing holding it together.

Smoking pot on public space is illegal. That would be an easy quality of life issue for DC to address, as it reflects lawlessness.

I live two blocks from H and go there regularly. It's not the hellhole some people here think it is, and it's way better than it was 10 years ago, but no one is denying the problems. DC needs to enforce the marajuana laws. It's illegal to sell pot, but the "gifting" shops are doing exactly that. There were plans in 2022 to start to enforce the laws, but they were delayed (https://www.dcnewsnow.com/news/local-news/washington-dc/dc-delays-inspecting-marijuana-gifting-shops-promises-crackdown-still-coming/) and I haven't heard anything lately.

I disagree. It's definitely worse than 2013. Honestly it's even worse than when I moved here in 2003. It wasn't vibrant then, but there wasn't so much random violent crime either.

There wasn't "random violent crime" in 2003 because H street was an open air drug market where people came to do heroine in 2003. You couldn't even take cabs to H Street in 2003 because cab drivers would throw you out of the cab. Most of the street was boarded up. If you honestly think it's worse now, you either have a poor memory or you were one of the people on heroine back then.

Also, H streets' development was uneven. In 2010, most of H street was very sketchy but there were a few blocks of lively nightlife (like 11th to 14th) and it was a destination for people so it felt safer because there were people around, businesses were open. The rest of the strip was boarded up or it was businesses like that big storage facility or that grocery store (Harvey's? I can't remember?).

Then the area close to Union Station blossomed when that development with the Giant went in. There were a cluster of restaurants and bars that went in around 4th and H around this time. Boundary Road was the big one (the Obamas went to dinner there at some point). Sidamo, Ethiopic, the place that was in Big Board before Big Board, then Big Board. That French place Le Grenier (now I think it's called Irregardless but similar concept). At this point, that close in part of H Street was the "nicest" part, and then you had nightlife at the other end, and in between was sketchy.

Then the Whole Foods went in and that shifted everything. You could actually walk from one end of H to the other without hitting a super sketchy block. The intersection at 8th and H remain questionable, but mostly people felt safe even with some crime and homelessness.

The difference between 2003 and 2017 or 2019 was night and day. Number of businesses, safety, nightlife. Total turnaround.

Since 2019 it's gotten worse, but the mainstays of that improvement are still there -- the grocery stores, a bunch of national chains that have held up find (Nando's Starbucks, Orange Theory Fitness). Some fancy places still doing well (Stable, Maketto, Fancy Radish). And a ton of new places.

But overall traffic in businesses is down, crime is up, and it's less pleasant overall. It needs to be addressed.

But the idea that it's worse now than 10 years ago, or 20 years ago, is just dumb. It is objectively better. There are problems, but it's objectively better.

The restaurant scene doesn’t seem to be slowing down although it hasn’t grown the way you might have expected. Ubers now take the place of the taxis or shuttle you used to have to catch. I’d like to see more visible patroling on Friday and Saturday nights.

Is there anything that can be done to fill in the vacant storefronts? Are landlords just holding onto the buildings instead of renting? That should be discouraged through the tax code.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm all for legalizing marijuana, but 20 quasi-legal weed shops in a 13-block stretch is overkill. And I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done about the intersection of 8th and H, because of the two major bus lines that intersect there. It's been an issue for decades, even during times when crime was comparatively low. I though tearing down that janky strip mall and replacing it with mixed-use would change things for the better, but it's only gotten worse.

Very much agree with both of these comments. I'm at the point where I actually regret legalizing marijuana in DC and normally I'm very "live and let live" on that issue. But head shops on H street combined with the near constant smell of marijuana in the corridor have changed my mind. I have lived in other place with legalized weed and it's not like this. I think people like Eleanor Holmes Norton who opposed the legalization have been proven right -- the existing substance abuse and mental health issues in the District have made legal weed a huge problem, and I'd support an initiative to shut it down at this point.

But short of that, addressing the loophole that allows all these businesses to "give away" marijuana to people who buy other items would help. People line up outside these business day and night, congregate and drink and smoke, get in fights, etc. It's a massive problem.

8th and H Street needs a full time police presence and some kind of disruption event. I actually think they should streetscape, but have the construction take forever, and then while that's happening neighborhood groups come and take it over. Those people need to go somewhere else. Shelters, the unemployment office, home -- there is absolutely no reason for 40-50 people (many of whom do not appear to be homeless) to be congregate on those corners daily. Not to transform myself into a stereotype, but: Get a job.

The smell of weed is now evident in my kids elem school, so much that the school is now concerned about kids with asthma being impacted. The school is next to a large public housing site which may be part of the issue but also a lot of weed smoking on the playing fields in the evening. Its disgusting and even the kids complain.

I feel bad for states just now legalizing pot. They don't know what they're in for. It sucks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm all for legalizing marijuana, but 20 quasi-legal weed shops in a 13-block stretch is overkill. And I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done about the intersection of 8th and H, because of the two major bus lines that intersect there. It's been an issue for decades, even during times when crime was comparatively low. I though tearing down that janky strip mall and replacing it with mixed-use would change things for the better, but it's only gotten worse.

Very much agree with both of these comments. I'm at the point where I actually regret legalizing marijuana in DC and normally I'm very "live and let live" on that issue. But head shops on H street combined with the near constant smell of marijuana in the corridor have changed my mind. I have lived in other place with legalized weed and it's not like this. I think people like Eleanor Holmes Norton who opposed the legalization have been proven right -- the existing substance abuse and mental health issues in the District have made legal weed a huge problem, and I'd support an initiative to shut it down at this point.

But short of that, addressing the loophole that allows all these businesses to "give away" marijuana to people who buy other items would help. People line up outside these business day and night, congregate and drink and smoke, get in fights, etc. It's a massive problem.

8th and H Street needs a full time police presence and some kind of disruption event. I actually think they should streetscape, but have the construction take forever, and then while that's happening neighborhood groups come and take it over. Those people need to go somewhere else. Shelters, the unemployment office, home -- there is absolutely no reason for 40-50 people (many of whom do not appear to be homeless) to be congregate on those corners daily. Not to transform myself into a stereotype, but: Get a job.

The smell of weed is now evident in my kids elem school, so much that the school is now concerned about kids with asthma being impacted. The school is next to a large public housing site which may be part of the issue but also a lot of weed smoking on the playing fields in the evening. Its disgusting and even the kids complain.

I feel bad for states just now legalizing pot. They don't know what they're in for. It sucks.

Unfortunately, I think DC’s problems are MUCH deeper than anything related to legalizing pot. Like sure there could be some issues elsewhere, but something tells me Vermont isn’t abt to become DC….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm all for legalizing marijuana, but 20 quasi-legal weed shops in a 13-block stretch is overkill. And I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done about the intersection of 8th and H, because of the two major bus lines that intersect there. It's been an issue for decades, even during times when crime was comparatively low. I though tearing down that janky strip mall and replacing it with mixed-use would change things for the better, but it's only gotten worse.

Very much agree with both of these comments. I'm at the point where I actually regret legalizing marijuana in DC and normally I'm very "live and let live" on that issue. But head shops on H street combined with the near constant smell of marijuana in the corridor have changed my mind. I have lived in other place with legalized weed and it's not like this. I think people like Eleanor Holmes Norton who opposed the legalization have been proven right -- the existing substance abuse and mental health issues in the District have made legal weed a huge problem, and I'd support an initiative to shut it down at this point.

But short of that, addressing the loophole that allows all these businesses to "give away" marijuana to people who buy other items would help. People line up outside these business day and night, congregate and drink and smoke, get in fights, etc. It's a massive problem.

8th and H Street needs a full time police presence and some kind of disruption event. I actually think they should streetscape, but have the construction take forever, and then while that's happening neighborhood groups come and take it over. Those people need to go somewhere else. Shelters, the unemployment office, home -- there is absolutely no reason for 40-50 people (many of whom do not appear to be homeless) to be congregate on those corners daily. Not to transform myself into a stereotype, but: Get a job.

The smell of weed is now evident in my kids elem school, so much that the school is now concerned about kids with asthma being impacted. The school is next to a large public housing site which may be part of the issue but also a lot of weed smoking on the playing fields in the evening. Its disgusting and even the kids complain.

I feel bad for states just now legalizing pot. They don't know what they're in for. It sucks.

I hope MD and VA do it so people won't come into DC for it... Why don't we repeal? The law as written isn't being followed or enforced .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been thinking this for a while. H street was on the rise for many years, then it kind of plateaued and now its on the decline. Its really quite sad and I don't see it rebounding. Pot shops, mini marts and fast food take out counters don't make a neighborhood. I do think competition from Navy Yard and the Warf contributed but crime is real. The packs of people standing around intersections smoking pot don't make for a very appealing destination. Whole Foods is the only thing holding it together.

Smoking pot on public space is illegal. That would be an easy quality of life issue for DC to address, as it reflects lawlessness.

I live two blocks from H and go there regularly. It's not the hellhole some people here think it is, and it's way better than it was 10 years ago, but no one is denying the problems. DC needs to enforce the marajuana laws. It's illegal to sell pot, but the "gifting" shops are doing exactly that. There were plans in 2022 to start to enforce the laws, but they were delayed (https://www.dcnewsnow.com/news/local-news/washington-dc/dc-delays-inspecting-marijuana-gifting-shops-promises-crackdown-still-coming/) and I haven't heard anything lately.

I disagree. It's definitely worse than 2013. Honestly it's even worse than when I moved here in 2003. It wasn't vibrant then, but there wasn't so much random violent crime either.

There wasn't "random violent crime" in 2003 because H street was an open air drug market where people came to do heroine in 2003. You couldn't even take cabs to H Street in 2003 because cab drivers would throw you out of the cab. Most of the street was boarded up. If you honestly think it's worse now, you either have a poor memory or you were one of the people on heroine back then.

Also, H streets' development was uneven. In 2010, most of H street was very sketchy but there were a few blocks of lively nightlife (like 11th to 14th) and it was a destination for people so it felt safer because there were people around, businesses were open. The rest of the strip was boarded up or it was businesses like that big storage facility or that grocery store (Harvey's? I can't remember?).

Then the area close to Union Station blossomed when that development with the Giant went in. There were a cluster of restaurants and bars that went in around 4th and H around this time. Boundary Road was the big one (the Obamas went to dinner there at some point). Sidamo, Ethiopic, the place that was in Big Board before Big Board, then Big Board. That French place Le Grenier (now I think it's called Irregardless but similar concept). At this point, that close in part of H Street was the "nicest" part, and then you had nightlife at the other end, and in between was sketchy.

Then the Whole Foods went in and that shifted everything. You could actually walk from one end of H to the other without hitting a super sketchy block. The intersection at 8th and H remain questionable, but mostly people felt safe even with some crime and homelessness.

The difference between 2003 and 2017 or 2019 was night and day. Number of businesses, safety, nightlife. Total turnaround.

Since 2019 it's gotten worse, but the mainstays of that improvement are still there -- the grocery stores, a bunch of national chains that have held up find (Nando's Starbucks, Orange Theory Fitness). Some fancy places still doing well (Stable, Maketto, Fancy Radish). And a ton of new places.

But overall traffic in businesses is down, crime is up, and it's less pleasant overall. It needs to be addressed.

But the idea that it's worse now than 10 years ago, or 20 years ago, is just dumb. It is objectively better. There are problems, but it's objectively better.

The restaurant scene doesn’t seem to be slowing down although it hasn’t grown the way you might have expected. Ubers now take the place of the taxis or shuttle you used to have to catch. I’d like to see more visible patroling on Friday and Saturday nights.

Is there anything that can be done to fill in the vacant storefronts? Are landlords just holding onto the buildings instead of renting? That should be discouraged through the tax code.

It was odd that the article didn't mention new restaurants that have opened on H St NE recently. Hiraya most recently, (and it's amazing and delicious!), was boosted in Bon Appetit and Eater.

I live near H St, feel maaybe slightly more uncomfortable there than I used to, but it was also uncomfortable to go out there back when it was only a few restaurants (I remember trekking over to Granville Moores and Rock 'n Roll Hotel early on when it wasn't yet a thing to go there). There's also a lot of cannibalization as there are so many other neighborhood hot spots now; NOMA wasn't a thing back then.

That's not to say that crime, vandalism, and vagrancy aren't an issue that needs to be addressed - they do. I also feel more uncomfortable in lots of places in the city due to the same issues, just because I'm aware of the percentage increase in crime. I see many car jackings occurring on Capitol Hill too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm all for legalizing marijuana, but 20 quasi-legal weed shops in a 13-block stretch is overkill. And I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done about the intersection of 8th and H, because of the two major bus lines that intersect there. It's been an issue for decades, even during times when crime was comparatively low. I though tearing down that janky strip mall and replacing it with mixed-use would change things for the better, but it's only gotten worse.

Very much agree with both of these comments. I'm at the point where I actually regret legalizing marijuana in DC and normally I'm very "live and let live" on that issue. But head shops on H street combined with the near constant smell of marijuana in the corridor have changed my mind. I have lived in other place with legalized weed and it's not like this. I think people like Eleanor Holmes Norton who opposed the legalization have been proven right -- the existing substance abuse and mental health issues in the District have made legal weed a huge problem, and I'd support an initiative to shut it down at this point.

But short of that, addressing the loophole that allows all these businesses to "give away" marijuana to people who buy other items would help. People line up outside these business day and night, congregate and drink and smoke, get in fights, etc. It's a massive problem.

8th and H Street needs a full time police presence and some kind of disruption event. I actually think they should streetscape, but have the construction take forever, and then while that's happening neighborhood groups come and take it over. Those people need to go somewhere else. Shelters, the unemployment office, home -- there is absolutely no reason for 40-50 people (many of whom do not appear to be homeless) to be congregate on those corners daily. Not to transform myself into a stereotype, but: Get a job.

The smell of weed is now evident in my kids elem school, so much that the school is now concerned about kids with asthma being impacted. The school is next to a large public housing site which may be part of the issue but also a lot of weed smoking on the playing fields in the evening. Its disgusting and even the kids complain.

I feel bad for states just now legalizing pot. They don't know what they're in for. It sucks.

I hope MD and VA do it so people won't come into DC for it... Why don't we repeal? The law as written isn't being followed or enforced .

It is strange that some “progressive” cities that have effectively banned cigarette smoking in public places (even on public space) have moved in the opposite direction on smoking marijuana. Both present personal as well as public health issues. I don’t want to breath your second hand pot smoke anymore than cigarette smoke. Share the carcinogens? No thanks!

[Anonymous]

A food review I read about a restaurant in the H Street area noted the “doorway grazed by bullets.”

The fact we think bullet-grazed doorways are acceptable says a lot about the US.