Why are we okay with long work hours?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The transition to life after college can be difficult with adjusting to a new schedule and increased independence.

"A college graduate, who recently began her first job, took to TikTok to vent about her struggles with the new phase of her life. Brielle, who goes by the username @brielleybelly123 on the platform, posted a video with text across the screen that read: “QOTD (question of the day) in a 9-5 how do u have time for ur life.”

As someone who works full time in a very full time job (60 hours a week), and handles all of the responsibilities of a special needs kid, has a home made dinner on the table every night, has a husband who wants me to commit a certain amount of emotional and physical time to him, no nanny, etc etc, I do find it charming when 22 year olds complain about having no free time. I remember having my current job pre kids. I worked a lot, but even still there was a LOT of free time every week. Now I have maybe twenty mins a day where I’m not committed to someone or something else.

What does your husband do? It’s not his child?

He could be doing a lot: School run, homework with SN kid, laundry, cleaning. WOH full time.

Assume your commute is 1 min, 8-4:30 is a 40 hr week. Assume you don’t eat lunch that’s 42.5 hours. So where dooes 60 hr come from?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I'd like to cut back on is the 9-5:30! WHY do I have to work an extra half hour for the unpaid lunch that I don't want to take?! I was told it's a thing negotiated by the union. That half hour is what really takes away from my family, adds to my commute... I haven't taken a lunch in years.

Agreed, it doesn’t make sense for an office worker who can eat at their desk. But if I was in a public facing job with no downtime, I would want the half hour to eat.

+2 I say this all the time. That extra half hour makes a huge difference.

[Anonymous]

We know that 40 hours a week is unhealthy.

People who hate their lives or use excessive work to escape like many do with alcohol will wonder what the big deal is.

The reality is that working 40 hours is unhealthy and it should change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:40-hour workweek was not “designed” in such a way. It was a concession for labor, and a significant pullback.

If it doesn’t work for you, find something part time. My wife has been working part time for 15 years.

Yup, in the industrial days, men worked 12-hour shifts, six days a week, with a 24-hour shift every 2 weeks followed by a day off.

Agreed. People don't realize how intensely most people had to work in the past, especially before the 1950s. If you were a farmer as were most people into the early 20th century, it was up before dawn to start tackling the chores and didn't end until the animals had been put to bed, seven days a week. Factory workers worked 12 hour shifts including Saturdays. Office workers worked late hours. Dickens' infamous clerks in 19th century London worked well into the evenings and trudged home in the dark only to get up before dawn the next morning, six days a week. Stores and businesses were typically open till 9-10 PM during the week in London on those days.

Even into the 1950s it was normal to have half Saturday be working hours for factory workers, who worked five and a half days a week. And got one week vacation a year.

Most of our generous notions of 40-hour work week and minimum of two weeks' vacation a year is really a product of labor union movements in the 50s and 60s. Which is well within living memory. The only people who had plenty of leisure time were the wealthy or the poor, for very different reasons.

On the other hand people don’t realize how NOT intensely historic (and modern) hunter gatherer societies have to work. Weird how invested we are as a society in only comparing working hours to a time when people worked more…

Yes... I've even visited those remaining hunter gatherer tribes. I've seen the quality of life. I'd rather work hard, thank you.

There's nothing stopping you from being lazy and going on welfare because you don't want to work. You'll be poor. But that's the price you have to pay. You want good housing and schooling and health care and amenities? Get off your bottom and work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9 to 5 has been standard for so many decades and it’s actually less than in other eras. What I can’t figure out is how you all have no time. We work full time and our only household help is an every other week house cleaner. We have three kids. We have time every single day to go to the gym and do family activities. We spend a couple of weekend hours on grocery shopping, prep for the upcoming week and laundry but that leaves us tons of time for activities and hobbies.

Interesting, post your schedule.

Everyone finishes work and gets home around 6pm — you have time for making and eating dinner, kids activities and your own gym all within 4 hours?

I’m guessing your kids have many nights no activities and no homework? Hard to see how you make it work. Before or after dinner two of the 3 will have somewhere to be. Carpool would help for some activities but we don’t live near anyone so we haven’t had any luck setting that up.

Doesn’t sound like work is your problem. Sounds like you over schedule your free time with activities. But I’ll play

5:20 wake up
6:00 gym
7:30 - 8:00 leave for work
4:30 - 5:00 home from work
Dinner and prep for next day
Kids activities/spouse gym
Family activities/bedtime activities/free time from ~8-10 on activity nights and from ~6:30 to 10 on non activity nights
Bed by 10:30

Some years it’s a bit different depending on the activities my kids are in. It’s easiest when they are school based because everyone is home by 6:15 and dinner is done by 7:15.

A lot if people don’t function well on 6.5 hours of sleep. It’s great that you do. It sounds like you must have a quick commute and be skipping lunch to be able to work an 8 hour day where you are leaving for work at 7.30/8am and home by 4.30/5pm.

Agree. I would be guilty of time card fraud if I worked that schedule and was paid as a full-time employee.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The transition to life after college can be difficult with adjusting to a new schedule and increased independence.

"A college graduate, who recently began her first job, took to TikTok to vent about her struggles with the new phase of her life. Brielle, who goes by the username @brielleybelly123 on the platform, posted a video with text across the screen that read: “QOTD (question of the day) in a 9-5 how do u have time for ur life.”

As someone who works full time in a very full time job (60 hours a week), and handles all of the responsibilities of a special needs kid, has a home made dinner on the table every night, has a husband who wants me to commit a certain amount of emotional and physical time to him, no nanny, etc etc, I do find it charming when 22 year olds complain about having no free time. I remember having my current job pre kids. I worked a lot, but even still there was a LOT of free time every week. Now I have maybe twenty mins a day where I’m not committed to someone or something else.

What does your husband do? It’s not his child?

Maybe the husband IS the special needs kid?

[Anonymous]

So many countries have a better work-life balance than we do. I want 6 weeks of vacation and I want not to be shy to take them.

[Anonymous]

This is why WFH has been so great for our family.

By cutting out our commutes, we've been able to reclaim some prime time back to our family lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We know that 40 hours a week is unhealthy.

People who hate their lives or use excessive work to escape like many do with alcohol will wonder what the big deal is.

The reality is that working 40 hours is unhealthy and it should change.

My wife routinely puts in 50-60, while I put in 40 (if I put in more, I earn credit hours.) She argues that if she doesn't put in the 50-60, the work doesn't get done. And not getting the work done is not an option (according to her.) She says I don't have a "real job."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I realized that my organization has been cutting staff and claiming they don’t have the money to fill positions and chiding us to do more with less for nearly twenty years. I feel like often the long hours are the function of an organization refusing to hire more staff. Feels
Like exploitation. We are all now productive than ever thanks to technology but they just keep adding tasks and subtracting personnel.

Absolutely!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:40-hour workweek was not “designed” in such a way. It was a concession for labor, and a significant pullback.

If it doesn’t work for you, find something part time. My wife has been working part time for 15 years.

Yup, in the industrial days, men worked 12-hour shifts, six days a week, with a 24-hour shift every 2 weeks followed by a day off.

Agreed. People don't realize how intensely most people had to work in the past, especially before the 1950s. If you were a farmer as were most people into the early 20th century, it was up before dawn to start tackling the chores and didn't end until the animals had been put to bed, seven days a week. Factory workers worked 12 hour shifts including Saturdays. Office workers worked late hours. Dickens' infamous clerks in 19th century London worked well into the evenings and trudged home in the dark only to get up before dawn the next morning, six days a week. Stores and businesses were typically open till 9-10 PM during the week in London on those days.

Even into the 1950s it was normal to have half Saturday be working hours for factory workers, who worked five and a half days a week. And got one week vacation a year.

Most of our generous notions of 40-hour work week and minimum of two weeks' vacation a year is really a product of labor union movements in the 50s and 60s. Which is well within living memory. The only people who had plenty of leisure time were the wealthy or the poor, for very different reasons.

On the other hand people don’t realize how NOT intensely historic (and modern) hunter gatherer societies have to work. Weird how invested we are as a society in only comparing working hours to a time when people worked more…

Yes... I've even visited those remaining hunter gatherer tribes. I've seen the quality of life. I'd rather work hard, thank you.

There's nothing stopping you from being lazy and going on welfare because you don't want to work. You'll be poor. But that's the price you have to pay. You want good housing and schooling and health care and amenities? Get off your bottom and work.

Non sequitur.

[Anonymous]

I'm my 20s I was so passionate about my work that
I didn't mind. Everything was fun and fresh and I was surrounded by passionate people. And I didn't have anything better to do so it was no big deal.

I changed careers bc it wasn't sustainable with kids. I still work hard and do a good job but at the end of the day I have 2 little humans at home who need me. A husband who deserves a present wife to parent with and enjoy. Aging parents who need more support. And friendships that are important for me to sustain.

I am always pouring from an empty cup, no matter how much I say no and place boundaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is why WFH has been so great for our family.

By cutting out our commutes, we've been able to reclaim some prime time back to our family lives.

WFH definitely helps! DH works from home and it makes a world of difference. I hate that so many places are going back for no good reason. It's not sustainable for 2 parents who both work outside of the house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:40-hour workweek was not “designed” in such a way. It was a concession for labor, and a significant pullback.

If it doesn’t work for you, find something part time. My wife has been working part time for 15 years.

Yup, in the industrial days, men worked 12-hour shifts, six days a week, with a 24-hour shift every 2 weeks followed by a day off.

Agreed. People don't realize how intensely most people had to work in the past, especially before the 1950s. If you were a farmer as were most people into the early 20th century, it was up before dawn to start tackling the chores and didn't end until the animals had been put to bed, seven days a week. Factory workers worked 12 hour shifts including Saturdays. Office workers worked late hours. Dickens' infamous clerks in 19th century London worked well into the evenings and trudged home in the dark only to get up before dawn the next morning, six days a week. Stores and businesses were typically open till 9-10 PM during the week in London on those days.

Even into the 1950s it was normal to have half Saturday be working hours for factory workers, who worked five and a half days a week. And got one week vacation a year.

Most of our generous notions of 40-hour work week and minimum of two weeks' vacation a year is really a product of labor union movements in the 50s and 60s. Which is well within living memory. The only people who had plenty of leisure time were the wealthy or the poor, for very different reasons.

On the other hand people don’t realize how NOT intensely historic (and modern) hunter gatherer societies have to work. Weird how invested we are as a society in only comparing working hours to a time when people worked more…

+1. And now we have technology that improves productivity for many jobs, so we should be able to work less.

I think you missed the part where these productivity gains were the result of investments by the corporations. All value gets returned to stockholders.

Eh, a huge percentage of technological advancements were first funded by the government (i.e. taxpayers) and researched by government employees. Then corporations invest in the already proven technology and claim credit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why WFH has been so great for our family.

By cutting out our commutes, we've been able to reclaim some prime time back to our family lives.

WFH definitely helps! DH works from home and it makes a world of difference. I hate that so many places are going back for no good reason. It's not sustainable for 2 parents who both work outside of the house.

And yet so many of us are forced to do just this, pushing ourselves too far.

I work 60 hours a week and my husband works 45, both out of the house. We’ve been doing this for two decades while raising children at home. When our kids were young, he switched his hours to nights so there would always be someone home.

I feel like a shell of myself, and I can only think of 2 or 3 times I’ve been truly relaxed in the past couple years.

I hate this.