Why are we okay with long work hours?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:40-hour workweek was not “designed” in such a way. It was a concession for labor, and a significant pullback.

If it doesn’t work for you, find something part time. My wife has been working part time for 15 years.

Yup, in the industrial days, men worked 12-hour shifts, six days a week, with a 24-hour shift every 2 weeks followed by a day off.

Agreed. People don't realize how intensely most people had to work in the past, especially before the 1950s. If you were a farmer as were most people into the early 20th century, it was up before dawn to start tackling the chores and didn't end until the animals had been put to bed, seven days a week. Factory workers worked 12 hour shifts including Saturdays. Office workers worked late hours. Dickens' infamous clerks in 19th century London worked well into the evenings and trudged home in the dark only to get up before dawn the next morning, six days a week. Stores and businesses were typically open till 9-10 PM during the week in London on those days.

Even into the 1950s it was normal to have half Saturday be working hours for factory workers, who worked five and a half days a week. And got one week vacation a year.

Most of our generous notions of 40-hour work week and minimum of two weeks' vacation a year is really a product of labor union movements in the 50s and 60s. Which is well within living memory. The only people who had plenty of leisure time were the wealthy or the poor, for very different reasons.

My home country didn’t join WTO in the 1990s, my parents worked on Saturday mornings, but we had wed afternoon off. And everyone lived in communist compounds where commute is a 5 min walk with cafeteria serving hot food all day and school within the compound. We also had 2.5 he lunch break where nap curfew was enforced for school aged children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9 to 5 has been standard for so many decades and it’s actually less than in other eras. What I can’t figure out is how you all have no time. We work full time and our only household help is an every other week house cleaner. We have three kids. We have time every single day to go to the gym and do family activities. We spend a couple of weekend hours on grocery shopping, prep for the upcoming week and laundry but that leaves us tons of time for activities and hobbies.

Interesting, post your schedule.

Everyone finishes work and gets home around 6pm — you have time for making and eating dinner, kids activities and your own gym all within 4 hours?

I’m guessing your kids have many nights no activities and no homework? Hard to see how you make it work. Before or after dinner two of the 3 will have somewhere to be. Carpool would help for some activities but we don’t live near anyone so we haven’t had any luck setting that up.

Doesn’t sound like work is your problem. Sounds like you over schedule your free time with activities. But I’ll play

5:20 wake up
6:00 gym
7:30 - 8:00 leave for work
4:30 - 5:00 home from work
Dinner and prep for next day
Kids activities/spouse gym
Family activities/bedtime activities/free time from ~8-10 on activity nights and from ~6:30 to 10 on non activity nights
Bed by 10:30

Some years it’s a bit different depending on the activities my kids are in. It’s easiest when they are school based because everyone is home by 6:15 and dinner is done by 7:15.

A lot if people don’t function well on 6.5 hours of sleep. It’s great that you do. It sounds like you must have a quick commute and be skipping lunch to be able to work an 8 hour day where you are leaving for work at 7.30/8am and home by 4.30/5pm.

So no one has to pickup or drop off kids? Yeah, that’s halfway to being childless. So your only responsibility for kids is in the evening, and you shift everything to the early morning. 3 kids — yet spouse goes to gym during peak activity time? Do you enforce they all do the same thing at same place? We need both drivers to get our 3 kids to their activities and they aren’t travel sports or anything.

The PP is full of poo. I’m sure that’s the schedule she has written out on a piece of paper somewhere, but I would bet that it’s not even close to her reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9 to 5 has been standard for so many decades and it’s actually less than in other eras. What I can’t figure out is how you all have no time. We work full time and our only household help is an every other week house cleaner. We have three kids. We have time every single day to go to the gym and do family activities. We spend a couple of weekend hours on grocery shopping, prep for the upcoming week and laundry but that leaves us tons of time for activities and hobbies.

Interesting, post your schedule.

Everyone finishes work and gets home around 6pm — you have time for making and eating dinner, kids activities and your own gym all within 4 hours?

I’m guessing your kids have many nights no activities and no homework? Hard to see how you make it work. Before or after dinner two of the 3 will have somewhere to be. Carpool would help for some activities but we don’t live near anyone so we haven’t had any luck setting that up.

Doesn’t sound like work is your problem. Sounds like you over schedule your free time with activities. But I’ll play

5:20 wake up
6:00 gym
7:30 - 8:00 leave for work
4:30 - 5:00 home from work
Dinner and prep for next day
Kids activities/spouse gym
Family activities/bedtime activities/free time from ~8-10 on activity nights and from ~6:30 to 10 on non activity nights
Bed by 10:30

Some years it’s a bit different depending on the activities my kids are in. It’s easiest when they are school based because everyone is home by 6:15 and dinner is done by 7:15.

What type of gym do you do? I do training x 2 per week, 7 hours of sleep is not enough for joints muscle recovery (wasn’t even enough when I was 28). I need 10 hrs of sleep post training day. The other days 7 hr is ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:40-hour workweek was not “designed” in such a way. It was a concession for labor, and a significant pullback.

If it doesn’t work for you, find something part time. My wife has been working part time for 15 years.

Yup, in the industrial days, men worked 12-hour shifts, six days a week, with a 24-hour shift every 2 weeks followed by a day off.

Agreed. People don't realize how intensely most people had to work in the past, especially before the 1950s. If you were a farmer as were most people into the early 20th century, it was up before dawn to start tackling the chores and didn't end until the animals had been put to bed, seven days a week. Factory workers worked 12 hour shifts including Saturdays. Office workers worked late hours. Dickens' infamous clerks in 19th century London worked well into the evenings and trudged home in the dark only to get up before dawn the next morning, six days a week. Stores and businesses were typically open till 9-10 PM during the week in London on those days.

Even into the 1950s it was normal to have half Saturday be working hours for factory workers, who worked five and a half days a week. And got one week vacation a year.

Most of our generous notions of 40-hour work week and minimum of two weeks' vacation a year is really a product of labor union movements in the 50s and 60s. Which is well within living memory. The only people who had plenty of leisure time were the wealthy or the poor, for very different reasons.

On the other hand people don’t realize how NOT intensely historic (and modern) hunter gatherer societies have to work. Weird how invested we are as a society in only comparing working hours to a time when people worked more…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I'd like to cut back on is the 9-5:30! WHY do I have to work an extra half hour for the unpaid lunch that I don't want to take?! I was told it's a thing negotiated by the union. That half hour is what really takes away from my family, adds to my commute... I haven't taken a lunch in years.

Agreed, it doesn’t make sense for an office worker who can eat at their desk. But if I was in a public facing job with no downtime, I would want the half hour to eat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:40-hour workweek was not “designed” in such a way. It was a concession for labor, and a significant pullback.

If it doesn’t work for you, find something part time. My wife has been working part time for 15 years.

Yup, in the industrial days, men worked 12-hour shifts, six days a week, with a 24-hour shift every 2 weeks followed by a day off.

Agreed. People don't realize how intensely most people had to work in the past, especially before the 1950s. If you were a farmer as were most people into the early 20th century, it was up before dawn to start tackling the chores and didn't end until the animals had been put to bed, seven days a week. Factory workers worked 12 hour shifts including Saturdays. Office workers worked late hours. Dickens' infamous clerks in 19th century London worked well into the evenings and trudged home in the dark only to get up before dawn the next morning, six days a week. Stores and businesses were typically open till 9-10 PM during the week in London on those days.

Even into the 1950s it was normal to have half Saturday be working hours for factory workers, who worked five and a half days a week. And got one week vacation a year.

Most of our generous notions of 40-hour work week and minimum of two weeks' vacation a year is really a product of labor union movements in the 50s and 60s. Which is well within living memory. The only people who had plenty of leisure time were the wealthy or the poor, for very different reasons.

On the other hand people don’t realize how NOT intensely historic (and modern) hunter gatherer societies have to work. Weird how invested we are as a society in only comparing working hours to a time when people worked more…

+1. And now we have technology that improves productivity for many jobs, so we should be able to work less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The transition to life after college can be difficult with adjusting to a new schedule and increased independence.

"A college graduate, who recently began her first job, took to TikTok to vent about her struggles with the new phase of her life. Brielle, who goes by the username @brielleybelly123 on the platform, posted a video with text across the screen that read: “QOTD (question of the day) in a 9-5 how do u have time for ur life.”

As someone who works full time in a very full time job (60 hours a week), and handles all of the responsibilities of a special needs kid, has a home made dinner on the table every night, has a husband who wants me to commit a certain amount of emotional and physical time to him, no nanny, etc etc, I do find it charming when 22 year olds complain about having no free time. I remember having my current job pre kids. I worked a lot, but even still there was a LOT of free time every week. Now I have maybe twenty mins a day where I’m not committed to someone or something else.

+1 I don't see why 9-5 is taxing for a young person with no other responsibilities. When I was that age and stage, I was going out to happy hours after work, meeting friends for dinner, social sports, weekends totally free.

This is absurd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The transition to life after college can be difficult with adjusting to a new schedule and increased independence.

"A college graduate, who recently began her first job, took to TikTok to vent about her struggles with the new phase of her life. Brielle, who goes by the username @brielleybelly123 on the platform, posted a video with text across the screen that read: “QOTD (question of the day) in a 9-5 how do u have time for ur life.”

As someone who works full time in a very full time job (60 hours a week), and handles all of the responsibilities of a special needs kid, has a home made dinner on the table every night, has a husband who wants me to commit a certain amount of emotional and physical time to him, no nanny, etc etc, I do find it charming when 22 year olds complain about having no free time. I remember having my current job pre kids. I worked a lot, but even still there was a LOT of free time every week. Now I have maybe twenty mins a day where I’m not committed to someone or something else.

What does your husband do? It’s not his child?

She has a DH problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9 to 5 has been standard for so many decades and it’s actually less than in other eras. What I can’t figure out is how you all have no time. We work full time and our only household help is an every other week house cleaner. We have three kids. We have time every single day to go to the gym and do family activities. We spend a couple of weekend hours on grocery shopping, prep for the upcoming week and laundry but that leaves us tons of time for activities and hobbies.

Interesting, post your schedule.

Everyone finishes work and gets home around 6pm — you have time for making and eating dinner, kids activities and your own gym all within 4 hours?

I’m guessing your kids have many nights no activities and no homework? Hard to see how you make it work. Before or after dinner two of the 3 will have somewhere to be. Carpool would help for some activities but we don’t live near anyone so we haven’t had any luck setting that up.

Doesn’t sound like work is your problem. Sounds like you over schedule your free time with activities. But I’ll play

5:20 wake up
6:00 gym
7:30 - 8:00 leave for work
4:30 - 5:00 home from work
Dinner and prep for next day
Kids activities/spouse gym
Family activities/bedtime activities/free time from ~8-10 on activity nights and from ~6:30 to 10 on non activity nights
Bed by 10:30

Some years it’s a bit different depending on the activities my kids are in. It’s easiest when they are school based because everyone is home by 6:15 and dinner is done by 7:15.

Are you the same PP? They claimed 60 hours a week working.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The transition to life after college can be difficult with adjusting to a new schedule and increased independence.

"A college graduate, who recently began her first job, took to TikTok to vent about her struggles with the new phase of her life. Brielle, who goes by the username @brielleybelly123 on the platform, posted a video with text across the screen that read: “QOTD (question of the day) in a 9-5 how do u have time for ur life.”

As someone who works full time in a very full time job (60 hours a week), and handles all of the responsibilities of a special needs kid, has a home made dinner on the table every night, has a husband who wants me to commit a certain amount of emotional and physical time to him, no nanny, etc etc, I do find it charming when 22 year olds complain about having no free time. I remember having my current job pre kids. I worked a lot, but even still there was a LOT of free time every week. Now I have maybe twenty mins a day where I’m not committed to someone or something else.

+1 I don't see why 9-5 is taxing for a young person with no other responsibilities. When I was that age and stage, I was going out to happy hours after work, meeting friends for dinner, social sports, weekends totally free.

This is absurd.

Because the 9-5 is really more like an 8-6 with the understanding you’re checking emails before bed? That’s even before getting ready and commute time. Flex work / remote work is awesome but it’s creates a pressure to always be accessible and that is draining if you work in a fast paced environment and want to get ahead.

[Anonymous]

Grad school worked me to the bone, I had no life. I was depressed and felt the pressure to work non-stop. Leaving academia was the hardest thing I did but it also was the best thing I did for myself. I will never have a job dictate my life anymore. I don't earn much, but I do somewhat meaningful work, spend time with my family and enjoy life. Years after, I sometimes pause to appreciate not having to work on the weekends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The transition to life after college can be difficult with adjusting to a new schedule and increased independence.

"A college graduate, who recently began her first job, took to TikTok to vent about her struggles with the new phase of her life. Brielle, who goes by the username @brielleybelly123 on the platform, posted a video with text across the screen that read: “QOTD (question of the day) in a 9-5 how do u have time for ur life.”

As someone who works full time in a very full time job (60 hours a week), and handles all of the responsibilities of a special needs kid, has a home made dinner on the table every night, has a husband who wants me to commit a certain amount of emotional and physical time to him, no nanny, etc etc, I do find it charming when 22 year olds complain about having no free time. I remember having my current job pre kids. I worked a lot, but even still there was a LOT of free time every week. Now I have maybe twenty mins a day where I’m not committed to someone or something else.

You are enabling grown ass man child to flourish in this society, maybe you are the problem.

This. Yuck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The transition to life after college can be difficult with adjusting to a new schedule and increased independence.

"A college graduate, who recently began her first job, took to TikTok to vent about her struggles with the new phase of her life. Brielle, who goes by the username @brielleybelly123 on the platform, posted a video with text across the screen that read: “QOTD (question of the day) in a 9-5 how do u have time for ur life.”

As someone who works full time in a very full time job (60 hours a week), and handles all of the responsibilities of a special needs kid, has a home made dinner on the table every night, has a husband who wants me to commit a certain amount of emotional and physical time to him, no nanny, etc etc, I do find it charming when 22 year olds complain about having no free time. I remember having my current job pre kids. I worked a lot, but even still there was a LOT of free time every week. Now I have maybe twenty mins a day where I’m not committed to someone or something else.

Your DH is mistreating you, I hope you see it and take care if yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:40-hour workweek was not “designed” in such a way. It was a concession for labor, and a significant pullback.

If it doesn’t work for you, find something part time. My wife has been working part time for 15 years.

Yup, in the industrial days, men worked 12-hour shifts, six days a week, with a 24-hour shift every 2 weeks followed by a day off.

Agreed. People don't realize how intensely most people had to work in the past, especially before the 1950s. If you were a farmer as were most people into the early 20th century, it was up before dawn to start tackling the chores and didn't end until the animals had been put to bed, seven days a week. Factory workers worked 12 hour shifts including Saturdays. Office workers worked late hours. Dickens' infamous clerks in 19th century London worked well into the evenings and trudged home in the dark only to get up before dawn the next morning, six days a week. Stores and businesses were typically open till 9-10 PM during the week in London on those days.

Even into the 1950s it was normal to have half Saturday be working hours for factory workers, who worked five and a half days a week. And got one week vacation a year.

Most of our generous notions of 40-hour work week and minimum of two weeks' vacation a year is really a product of labor union movements in the 50s and 60s. Which is well within living memory. The only people who had plenty of leisure time were the wealthy or the poor, for very different reasons.

On the other hand people don’t realize how NOT intensely historic (and modern) hunter gatherer societies have to work. Weird how invested we are as a society in only comparing working hours to a time when people worked more…

+1. And now we have technology that improves productivity for many jobs, so we should be able to work less.

I think you missed the part where these productivity gains were the result of investments by the corporations. All value gets returned to stockholders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The transition to life after college can be difficult with adjusting to a new schedule and increased independence.

"A college graduate, who recently began her first job, took to TikTok to vent about her struggles with the new phase of her life. Brielle, who goes by the username @brielleybelly123 on the platform, posted a video with text across the screen that read: “QOTD (question of the day) in a 9-5 how do u have time for ur life.”

As someone who works full time in a very full time job (60 hours a week), and handles all of the responsibilities of a special needs kid, has a home made dinner on the table every night, has a husband who wants me to commit a certain amount of emotional and physical time to him, no nanny, etc etc, I do find it charming when 22 year olds complain about having no free time. I remember having my current job pre kids. I worked a lot, but even still there was a LOT of free time every week. Now I have maybe twenty mins a day where I’m not committed to someone or something else.

What does your husband do? It’s not his child?

He could be doing a lot: School run, homework with SN kid, laundry, cleaning. WOH full time.