If you have an extraordinarily or profoundly gifted kid . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is his IQ profile pretty evenly distributed, or is he significantly higher in one area? Is his achievement level consistent with the IQ level? Does he seem socially well adjusted?

If his profile is uneven, then the easiest thing would be to keep him in a regular school, but supplement in the area of strength.

If he has a more even profile, I'd try to figure out why he doesn't seem to think he's bored. Is he just a very easygoing kid? Is he bored, but doesn't realize that school could be much more engaging and much faster paced? Is he happy to finish his work quickly, and then pursue one of his own interests?

If his achievement level is at best that of a normal smart kid, I'd look into additional evaluations. Very high IQ can mask LDs.

If he's struggling socially, keeping him in a normal school among normal kids will not help. He'll continue to feel like he doesn't fit in.

If he's sailing through school with no effort, then you need to make sure he's developing study skills and resilience from some activity. Having no study skills and expecting everything to be easy will eventually catch up with him and cause problems.

He doesn't have a lot of unevenness. His math and spatial scores are higher than his language and literacy scores, but not to the point that it points to an LD, and it's a little bit of a chicken and an egg thing because he seeks out more math and spatial kinds of things, than he does language and literacy kinds of things, so it seems logical that those skills would be more developed.

I think he goes to school each day with plans for things to occupy himself with during downtime, so he not only doesn't mind when the work is easy, he's kind of excited because it means he can do his own thing. He is very bad at being still and not being busy, but he's very good at figuring out interesting things to keep himself busy, and working those things into his schedule.

Socially he seems fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So what does he do exactly that you feel he is extraordinarily/profoundly gifted? Other than test score.

Obviously, since I asked this because I was surprised by his test score, I didn't feel that before. But maybe I was in denial.

His academic scores pretty much match his IQ scores, not just the ones from this time around but the standardized testing he does for school, and the admissions testing he took for private school. He gets math tutoring because he kept pestering his older brother's math tutor until we added an extra 30 minutes for him. So, I think I thought "well, he's good at math, but that's because he's getting math tutoring, and he copies his older brother".

He is always busy, and busy doing interesting things. He has a lot of things he does well, but some of that is that he spends a lot of time doing them, because he fills every second of his time, and because he doesn't seem to spend any time doing HW (although teachers report that it's all turned in).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If he is interested in math, encourage taking part in math competitions. Not Mathcounts as much as the AMC-10/12/AIME/USA(J)MO series. They get progressively harder so that even the 0.1% kids find them challenging. They are quite different from what is taught in school and require creativity, insight and hard work to succeed. And the contest community is full of similar kids (at least the ones who take it seriously and do well). If contests aren't your DS' cup of tea, then there are summer camps like Euclid, Mathly, PROMYS, PRIMES which delve into research math that is a whole other level.

He does not like competing academically. He is super competitive athletically, but avoids competition for anything else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he is interested in math, encourage taking part in math competitions. Not Mathcounts as much as the AMC-10/12/AIME/USA(J)MO series. They get progressively harder so that even the 0.1% kids find them challenging. They are quite different from what is taught in school and require creativity, insight and hard work to succeed. And the contest community is full of similar kids (at least the ones who take it seriously and do well). If contests aren't your DS' cup of tea, then there are summer camps like Euclid, Mathly, PROMYS, PRIMES which delve into research math that is a whole other level.

He does not like competing academically. He is super competitive athletically, but avoids competition for anything else.

You compete against the problems more than against other kids. But the math camps are not competitive in the least. They are collaborative with a set of like minded and gifted even outlier kids.

[Anonymous]

Mom of two profoundly gifted kids. Wish I had pushed them to handle things that make them uncomfortable. One has a touch of autism. Anxiety in both. Not a fun ride at times. Try to work on coping skills when things are not perfect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what did you do differently?

My middle schooler's IQ was just tested, and came back on the border between these two categories, according to the Hoagie's website. Apparently his score puts him in the top 0.03%. I guess I'm trying to figure out if this is information I need to do something with, or if I can just take these results and stick them in a drawer somewhere.

Well, if you think it’s a good idea to post that question here then obviously you are not as profoundly gifted as you say your kid is

Extremely uninformed response, ignore it, OP. Being profoundly gifted is sometimes a burden, and it does not mean people always know what to do in all circumstances. Occasionally, such a high level of cognitive and processing skill also come with disorders such as anxiety, autism or depression. It can be hard to relate to other people.

You can show him and discuss (my son with autism and a high IQ has read all his neurophychological evaluation reports, starting from when he was 10). There is no cause for pride, since this result is not within his or your control. But it's scientifically interesting!

There is little practical application however, unless the report also identifies a disorder. What matters is how you can encourage his interests and bolster his weaknesses. A very high level of intelligence does not necessarily correlate with fame and fortune. There are brilliant minds in all walks of life. My profoundly gifted cousin runs camps for refugees in Syria. She does it extremely well, but it's a calling, not a financial success. My high-IQ husband has an MD and a PhD and works in biomedical research at NIH. He's worked on multiple cancers, diabetes, and ADHD. Again, he doesn't do it for the money. They are both happy and fulfilled people, because they spend their time doing what they love. My son has the added wrinkle of autism, but we'll see what he does with his life. It'll be interesting.

Expose your child to all sorts of activities, and see what he likes to do.

I disagree with the bolded. Adults may be able to rationalize the information that way, but kids won’t! They’ll do generally insufferable things like tell other people their IQ, or secretly think they’re smarter than other people, or they won’t try hard at difficult things because they don’t want to fail. Maybe not all kids, but I wouldn’t risk it. Smart doesn’t equal mature.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That level of gifted needs to not be attending regular school. Way too boring for him. Most privates would be inappropriate too.

OP here,

He's in private but not one of the top privates, or one that people talk about as being particularly good for gifted kids. He followed an older sibling, because two different drop offs and pick ups seemed like it would be a pain.

He likes school, and never says "I was bored" about school, but he comes home from school with lots of pictures he's drawn and no homework and tells me "Oh we had free time in X class if we finished our work, so I did my homework there".

He needs IQ peers somewhere in his daily life. Otherwise there is a distortion in communication. Imagine someone with an IQ of 100 in a class aimed at IQs of 60. That's the gap hes facing. Not much stretches the brain of someone that far from the main group. We need outside challenges, as well as our own inner drive.

I have two now teens at the 145 level. Chess helps. Musical instrument w excellent teacher has been a great steadying force for years. Sports teams , if kid has some skill, seemed to us helpful for a while. Reading New Yorker, Atlantic, Economist, Federalist Papers. No no not all at once. But these are in our house and...sure enough they get read and discussions follow. Our public ES did a good job of putting the 5 140 IQ and up kids in the grade into the same classes. They at least had each other and would work on their own activities or just play and talk together as soon as the regular class work was completed. Davidson and other groups can help get you to some better matched choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what did you do differently?

My middle schooler's IQ was just tested, and came back on the border between these two categories, according to the Hoagie's website. Apparently his score puts him in the top 0.03%. I guess I'm trying to figure out if this is information I need to do something with, or if I can just take these results and stick them in a drawer somewhere.

I think the problem is that a kid with an IQ of about 150 to 165 will be an ordinary bright Top 30 university student, not all that amazingly bright by the standards of a selective university.

You have to figure out how to get your son into tough enough courses that, by the time he’s at college, he’ll know how to study and how to get help if he finds something confusing.

If he sails through K-12, that means he’ll end up in college with a weaker education than many other equally bright, better-educated students, and he may not have any idea of what to do in a class that’s hard.

This is an absurd statement. There are roughly 20 million people of college age in the U.S. 0.03 percent of that is 6000-- in the entire country, spread among all colleges. That would put an average of 200 kids of that intelligence at each of the top 30 colleges, or 50 per entering class. Hardly "ordinary"

Huh. Smart kids tend to congregate at smart schools. They are not evenly distributed.

Most kids at top ivies have IQs in the range that OP describes. Her son will almost certainly be average in college. If he’s lucky.

If you read Deborah Ruf's books on giftedness and her research on these kids, she suggests that profoundly gifted kids (so perhaps a bit above OP's as OP states hers is borderline) may occur in the population at a rate of more like 1 in 200,000.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what did you do differently?

My middle schooler's IQ was just tested, and came back on the border between these two categories, according to the Hoagie's website. Apparently his score puts him in the top 0.03%. I guess I'm trying to figure out if this is information I need to do something with, or if I can just take these results and stick them in a drawer somewhere.

I think the problem is that a kid with an IQ of about 150 to 165 will be an ordinary bright Top 30 university student, not all that amazingly bright by the standards of a selective university.

You have to figure out how to get your son into tough enough courses that, by the time he’s at college, he’ll know how to study and how to get help if he finds something confusing.

If he sails through K-12, that means he’ll end up in college with a weaker education than many other equally bright, better-educated students, and he may not have any idea of what to do in a class that’s hard.

This is an absurd statement. There are roughly 20 million people of college age in the U.S. 0.03 percent of that is 6000-- in the entire country, spread among all colleges. That would put an average of 200 kids of that intelligence at each of the top 30 colleges, or 50 per entering class. Hardly "ordinary"

Huh. Smart kids tend to congregate at smart schools. They are not evenly distributed.

Most kids at top ivies have IQs in the range that OP describes. Her son will almost certainly be average in college. If he’s lucky.

If you read Deborah Ruf's books on giftedness and her research on these kids, she suggests that profoundly gifted kids (so perhaps a bit above OP's as OP states hers is borderline) may occur in the population at a rate of more like 1 in 200,000.

OP here,

It seems like the terms aren't standardized, which is weird. To be specific, I was going by the Hoagie's levels for the WISC,

https://www.hoagiesgifted.org/highly_profoundly.htm

But there are definitely other people who use other numbers. I would assume Deborah Ruf's using a different definition of profoundly gifted.

Maybe I'll just have to go with a different system and then I can stop worrying about this!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is his IQ profile pretty evenly distributed, or is he significantly higher in one area? Is his achievement level consistent with the IQ level? Does he seem socially well adjusted?

If his profile is uneven, then the easiest thing would be to keep him in a regular school, but supplement in the area of strength.

If he has a more even profile, I'd try to figure out why he doesn't seem to think he's bored. Is he just a very easygoing kid? Is he bored, but doesn't realize that school could be much more engaging and much faster paced? Is he happy to finish his work quickly, and then pursue one of his own interests?

If his achievement level is at best that of a normal smart kid, I'd look into additional evaluations. Very high IQ can mask LDs.

If he's struggling socially, keeping him in a normal school among normal kids will not help. He'll continue to feel like he doesn't fit in.

If he's sailing through school with no effort, then you need to make sure he's developing study skills and resilience from some activity. Having no study skills and expecting everything to be easy will eventually catch up with him and cause problems.

He doesn't have a lot of unevenness. His math and spatial scores are higher than his language and literacy scores, but not to the point that it points to an LD, and it's a little bit of a chicken and an egg thing because he seeks out more math and spatial kinds of things, than he does language and literacy kinds of things, so it seems logical that those skills would be more developed.

I think he goes to school each day with plans for things to occupy himself with during downtime, so he not only doesn't mind when the work is easy, he's kind of excited because it means he can do his own thing. He is very bad at being still and not being busy, but he's very good at figuring out interesting things to keep himself busy, and working those things into his schedule.

Socially he seems fine.

One of my kids teachers told me that the brightest kids are never bored. They are able to come up with their own version of the day. My kid used to write up her own spelling words...just words she wanted to know how to spell. She would add details to word problems to make them harder. It actually became a whole class challenge to write their own word problems...which the teacher occaissionally used! Never tested my kid so I have no idea where she falls.

[Anonymous]

If he enjoys math, I would sign him up for something more challenging, like an AoPS class or local math circle. Neither of those would be competitive, but they would be a chance for him to be challenged a little and meet some academic peers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what did you do differently?

My middle schooler's IQ was just tested, and came back on the border between these two categories, according to the Hoagie's website. Apparently his score puts him in the top 0.03%. I guess I'm trying to figure out if this is information I need to do something with, or if I can just take these results and stick them in a drawer somewhere.

My kid has incredibly high IQ and ADHD. The tester’s suggestion was to indulge his interests/passions but not really do much differently.

Why was your child tested? My two were tested because of learning disabilities.

I'm not sure if you're asking me (OP) or the PP. I have a friend who is a neuropsychologist and she was looking for someone for a new staff member to practice on. I had mentioned that I was curious about how he'd do so she offered. I didn't come in with concerns, and they didn't find anything problematic. Just lots of high scores.

I knew it would be higher than average going in. That's why I was curious. He's good at school. He's a very busy kid who is always doing something. But I had heard that profoundly gifted kids always struggle, and they need radically different things than their same age peers, and they are so much harder to parent than "typical" kids and since none of those things seem to apply to him, I sort of assumed he'd come in at the bottom of the gifted range.

But now, I'm worried that maybe he does need something different and I'm doing him a disservice?

You need to get an actual IQ test from a reliable experienced provider. This is too big a deal to be based on a practice exam by a new staffer. Then, if results track, reread this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what did you do differently?

My middle schooler's IQ was just tested, and came back on the border between these two categories, according to the Hoagie's website. Apparently his score puts him in the top 0.03%. I guess I'm trying to figure out if this is information I need to do something with, or if I can just take these results and stick them in a drawer somewhere.

My kid has incredibly high IQ and ADHD. The tester’s suggestion was to indulge his interests/passions but not really do much differently.

Why was your child tested? My two were tested because of learning disabilities.

I'm not sure if you're asking me (OP) or the PP. I have a friend who is a neuropsychologist and she was looking for someone for a new staff member to practice on. I had mentioned that I was curious about how he'd do so she offered. I didn't come in with concerns, and they didn't find anything problematic. Just lots of high scores.

I knew it would be higher than average going in. That's why I was curious. He's good at school. He's a very busy kid who is always doing something. But I had heard that profoundly gifted kids always struggle, and they need radically different things than their same age peers, and they are so much harder to parent than "typical" kids and since none of those things seem to apply to him, I sort of assumed he'd come in at the bottom of the gifted range.

But now, I'm worried that maybe he does need something different and I'm doing him a disservice?

You need to get an actual IQ test from a reliable experienced provider. This is too big a deal to be based on a practice exam by a new staffer. Then, if results track, reread this thread.

It was an experienced neuropsychologist who was new to the practice, not new to the field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what did you do differently?

My middle schooler's IQ was just tested, and came back on the border between these two categories, according to the Hoagie's website. Apparently his score puts him in the top 0.03%. I guess I'm trying to figure out if this is information I need to do something with, or if I can just take these results and stick them in a drawer somewhere.

My kid has incredibly high IQ and ADHD. The tester’s suggestion was to indulge his interests/passions but not really do much differently.

Why was your child tested? My two were tested because of learning disabilities.

I'm not sure if you're asking me (OP) or the PP. I have a friend who is a neuropsychologist and she was looking for someone for a new staff member to practice on. I had mentioned that I was curious about how he'd do so she offered. I didn't come in with concerns, and they didn't find anything problematic. Just lots of high scores.

I knew it would be higher than average going in. That's why I was curious. He's good at school. He's a very busy kid who is always doing something. But I had heard that profoundly gifted kids always struggle, and they need radically different things than their same age peers, and they are so much harder to parent than "typical" kids and since none of those things seem to apply to him, I sort of assumed he'd come in at the bottom of the gifted range.

But now, I'm worried that maybe he does need something different and I'm doing him a disservice?

You need to get an actual IQ test from a reliable experienced provider. This is too big a deal to be based on a practice exam by a new staffer. Then, if results track, reread this thread.

It was an experienced neuropsychologist who was new to the practice, not new to the field.

You still want to know how many times they’ve given this particular test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:what did you do differently?

My middle schooler's IQ was just tested, and came back on the border between these two categories, according to the Hoagie's website. Apparently his score puts him in the top 0.03%. I guess I'm trying to figure out if this is information I need to do something with, or if I can just take these results and stick them in a drawer somewhere.

My kid has incredibly high IQ and ADHD. The tester’s suggestion was to indulge his interests/passions but not really do much differently.

Why was your child tested? My two were tested because of learning disabilities.

I'm not sure if you're asking me (OP) or the PP. I have a friend who is a neuropsychologist and she was looking for someone for a new staff member to practice on. I had mentioned that I was curious about how he'd do so she offered. I didn't come in with concerns, and they didn't find anything problematic. Just lots of high scores.

I knew it would be higher than average going in. That's why I was curious. He's good at school. He's a very busy kid who is always doing something. But I had heard that profoundly gifted kids always struggle, and they need radically different things than their same age peers, and they are so much harder to parent than "typical" kids and since none of those things seem to apply to him, I sort of assumed he'd come in at the bottom of the gifted range.

But now, I'm worried that maybe he does need something different and I'm doing him a disservice?

You need to get an actual IQ test from a reliable experienced provider. This is too big a deal to be based on a practice exam by a new staffer. Then, if results track, reread this thread.

It was an experienced neuropsychologist who was new to the practice, not new to the field.

You still want to know how many times they’ve given this particular test.

Given that Children's and Stixrud and other well regarded practices let grad students give the tests, I'm not concerned.