Deciding between Georgetown vs. Vanderbilt - Fall 2023 Transfer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not diminishing the Vandy football player behavior which resulted in criminal trials. But I think you're kidding yourself if you think that doesn't happen or can't happen at any other school. Every school has athletes who believe they're above the law, rich kids who've never been punished for anything in their lives who they they can do whatever. Pretty sure one of our supreme court justices fell in that category and went to Yale. Pretty sure there was a swimmer at Stanford in recent years doing the same things. This stuff is everywhere and I don't think Vandy v. Georgetown matters for that reason, unless you're thinking Gtown is close to home, she'll just escape home. And if you're thinking that, I'd caution against it because she needs to deal with this stuff in life, whether it's her T14 law school or biglaw or wherever else.

To be clear, we're not trying to shelter her. She's an adult and has attended a huge school and been in a sorority for a year. I think we all recognize that sexual assault happens on all campuses, no matter how elite and is often swept under the rug. (I attended a lower-tier Ivy, and a male student alleged to have committed date rape was quietly asked to leave. He transferred to Yale. The consequence of his behavior, a higher ranked school. At least he isn't on the Supreme Court, yet).

What I was trying to assess and other posters have addressed is the campus culture toward women generally, not sexual assault. To be as high caliber as it is, I do worry that Vandy campus culture toward women seems paradoxically regressive in certain ways (not just because of the men but the women as well) -- maybe it's a southern thing (and I grew up in the South before any southerners here get y'alls backs up), maybe it's that 40% of students participate in Greek life, maybe it's being in the SEC.

If it were a big state school in the South, I wouldn't have asked. My D has struggled with an eating disorder, and it would be nice if she could be in an environment where she can just work hard and enjoy herself without undue pressure toward constantly having to look or dress a certain way to fit in. I recognize that might be unrealistic. Thanks.

Southern sorority life should not be typified for all large Southern universities. Sorority life at Alabama is quite different than at Georgia and very different than sorority life at Georgia Tech. SMU & Alabama have similarities. Sorority life at Vanderbilt is more like that at SMU & Alabama,then that at Georgia & Georgia Tech.

As an aside: There is a website about current problems & issues at Georgetown. It has been cited on DCUM, but I do not recall the website. Have read (secondhand info) that it addresses a variety of issues including housing problems, social life, as well as academic issues at Georgetown. Perhaps another poster can share the link to this website.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not diminishing the Vandy football player behavior which resulted in criminal trials. But I think you're kidding yourself if you think that doesn't happen or can't happen at any other school. Every school has athletes who believe they're above the law, rich kids who've never been punished for anything in their lives who they they can do whatever. Pretty sure one of our supreme court justices fell in that category and went to Yale. Pretty sure there was a swimmer at Stanford in recent years doing the same things. This stuff is everywhere and I don't think Vandy v. Georgetown matters for that reason, unless you're thinking Gtown is close to home, she'll just escape home. And if you're thinking that, I'd caution against it because she needs to deal with this stuff in life, whether it's her T14 law school or biglaw or wherever else.

To be clear, we're not trying to shelter her. She's an adult and has attended a huge school and been in a sorority for a year. I think we all recognize that sexual assault happens on all campuses, no matter how elite and is often swept under the rug. (I attended a lower-tier Ivy, and a male student alleged to have committed date rape was quietly asked to leave. He transferred to Yale. The consequence of his behavior, a higher ranked school. At least he isn't on the Supreme Court, yet).

What I was trying to assess and other posters have addressed is the campus culture toward women generally, not sexual assault. To be as high caliber as it is, I do worry that Vandy campus culture toward women seems paradoxically regressive in certain ways (not just because of the men but the women as well) -- maybe it's a southern thing (and I grew up in the South before any southerners here get y'alls backs up), maybe it's that 40% of students participate in Greek life, maybe it's being in the SEC.

If it were a big state school in the South, I wouldn't have asked. My D has struggled with an eating disorder, and it would be nice if she could be in an environment where she can just work hard and enjoy herself without undue pressure toward constantly having to look or dress a certain way to fit in. I recognize that might be unrealistic. Thanks.

I'm the PP you responded to and I also posted above about this being the one time in her life - before she settles into a T14 law school, NYC/DC biglaw - that she could live someplace else and gain an understanding of a place and people that aren't beltway people. Given what you say above though esp with the eating disorder and not wanting to feel pressured re looks, why not consider NW more seriously? Gets her out of DC but to a place that isn't traditionally southern?

[Anonymous]

I'm the PP you responded to and I also posted above about this being the one time in her life - before she settles into a T14 law school, NYC/DC biglaw - that she could live someplace else and gain an understanding of a place and people that aren't beltway people. Given what you say above though esp with the eating disorder and not wanting to feel pressured re looks, why not consider NW more seriously? Gets her out of DC but to a place that isn't traditionally southern?

Thank you. I'm certainly going to encourage her to reconsider Northwestern based on your and the other opinions here. Hopefully she can find some transfer students in social sciences and humanities to get a more realistic assessment the the STEM / Econ. major posts tend to suggest.

[Anonymous]

I went to both of these schools. Vandy undergrad and Gtown Law. Then BigLaw. I disagree that it doesn’t matter where you go to undergrad. Your undergrad shapes you as a person in ways that law school cannot. I’d choose advise my kid to choose Northwestern for the ranking, the culture, the academic and intellectual rigor. My DS is at a school that does quarters— it is maybe a little more intense but he finds it suits him because there is no time to procrastinate and get too far behind. Law school is not for sure. She shouldn’t choose second best bc of some plans to do law school later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to both of these schools. Vandy undergrad and Gtown Law. Then BigLaw. I disagree that it doesn’t matter where you go to undergrad. Your undergrad shapes you as a person in ways that law school cannot. I’d choose advise my kid to choose Northwestern for the ranking, the culture, the academic and intellectual rigor. My DS is at a school that does quarters— it is maybe a little more intense but he finds it suits him because there is no time to procrastinate and get too far behind. Law school is not for sure. She shouldn’t choose second best bc of some plans to do law school later.

Thank you. I definitely am going to encourage her not to dismiss NU. Did you enjoy Vandy socially and feel like you got an education that prepared you well for GULC and your career, or do you feel it's insufficiently rigorous in social sciences / humanities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to both of these schools. Vandy undergrad and Gtown Law. Then BigLaw. I disagree that it doesn’t matter where you go to undergrad. Your undergrad shapes you as a person in ways that law school cannot. I’d choose advise my kid to choose Northwestern for the ranking, the culture, the academic and intellectual rigor. My DS is at a school that does quarters— it is maybe a little more intense but he finds it suits him because there is no time to procrastinate and get too far behind. Law school is not for sure. She shouldn’t choose second best bc of some plans to do law school later.

Vanderbilt is currently ranked higher than Northwestern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to both of these schools. Vandy undergrad and Gtown Law. Then BigLaw. I disagree that it doesn’t matter where you go to undergrad. Your undergrad shapes you as a person in ways that law school cannot. I’d choose advise my kid to choose Northwestern for the ranking, the culture, the academic and intellectual rigor. My DS is at a school that does quarters— it is maybe a little more intense but he finds it suits him because there is no time to procrastinate and get too far behind. Law school is not for sure. She shouldn’t choose second best bc of some plans to do law school later.

Vanderbilt is currently ranked higher than Northwestern.

The latter quote is not accurate based on US News and World Report in 2023. NU is #9. Vandy is #14. Rankings are not the end all be all, however, particularly when so close.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I randomly know of 3 kids who got into Vandy for next fall as sophomore transfers. I didn’t realize transferring after only one year was popular and that Vandy took so many transfers. Average students in high school and looking to go to a higher ranked college than where they were accepted out of high school.

This is very common at many, many schools. Most who transfer in are ones who tried and were declined the first time.

[Anonymous]

I have a kid at Vanderbilt. Seeing a lot of fixation on Greek life here. Think it's misplaced. The percentage of students choosing to rush has been in steep decline for years. According to Vanderbilt's website, only 23 percent of students elected to join fraternities or sororities in 2021/22. It's probably lower now. He goes to frat parties and sorority formals but it's pretty peripheral to his life in Nashville. There are so many other things to do. That being said, for some girls - predominantly from the south and midwest - the sorority experience seems to be a big part of their college experience, particularly during freshman and sophomore years. Think juniors and seniors are much more relaxed about it.

Will add that my son's experience at Vandy has been great. Good mix of nerds and work hard play hard types. The general vibe is pre-professional but it's not cut-throat like certain other schools. I see him practicing mock interviews with fellow students. And the alumni network has been fantastic. Everyone wants everyone to succeed. He's having a genuine experience. And Nashville has been a huge plus. It's not DC. It's a blue city in the the South. It's different. Keeps him on his toes. It's opened his world. He has a very good, very prestigious job lined up. Not in Nashville, but elsewhere. He has zero interest in moving back to DC

As an aside, he once made an observation about the students pursuing a career in IB. They are the genuine psychopaths. Think the same applies to Big Law. The people that thrive there are not well. A 19 year old might not know that yet. Vanderbilt, more so than Georgetown, will open their eyes to other paths without extinguishing options

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid at Vanderbilt. Seeing a lot of fixation on Greek life here. Think it's misplaced. The percentage of students choosing to rush has been in steep decline for years. According to Vanderbilt's website, only 23 percent of students elected to join fraternities or sororities in 2021/22. It's probably lower now. He goes to frat parties and sorority formals but it's pretty peripheral to his life in Nashville. There are so many other things to do. That being said, for some girls - predominantly from the south and midwest - the sorority experience seems to be a big part of their college experience, particularly during freshman and sophomore years. Think juniors and seniors are much more relaxed about it.

Will add that my son's experience at Vandy has been great. Good mix of nerds and work hard play hard types. The general vibe is pre-professional but it's not cut-throat like certain other schools. I see him practicing mock interviews with fellow students. And the alumni network has been fantastic. Everyone wants everyone to succeed. He's having a genuine experience. And Nashville has been a huge plus. It's not DC. It's a blue city in the the South. It's different. Keeps him on his toes. It's opened his world. He has a very good, very prestigious job lined up. Not in Nashville, but elsewhere. He has zero interest in moving back to DC

As an aside, he once made an observation about the students pursuing a career in IB. They are the genuine psychopaths. Think the same applies to Big Law. The people that thrive there are not well. A 19 year old might not know that yet. Vanderbilt, more so than Georgetown, will open their eyes to other paths without extinguishing options

Thanks! That's great insight. It sounds like Vandy is a positive environment.

IMHO, not everyone in BigLaw is a psychopath, but the pre-law gunners might be. Many are really great people with large law school loans. GULC, however, was hyper-competitive and not very enjoyable (at least first year) when I attended some time ago.

[Anonymous]

According to Vandy's website:

"The overall percentage of undergraduate students that are members of Greek organizations was 23% in 2021-2022. Overall membership has stayed between 20% – 46% since 2000."

[Anonymous]

Friend’s child went to Vandy undergrad, Duke law, and was hired straight out of school to a big financial institute in NYC. Graduated from law school 2 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not diminishing the Vandy football player behavior which resulted in criminal trials. But I think you're kidding yourself if you think that doesn't happen or can't happen at any other school. Every school has athletes who believe they're above the law, rich kids who've never been punished for anything in their lives who they they can do whatever. Pretty sure one of our supreme court justices fell in that category and went to Yale. Pretty sure there was a swimmer at Stanford in recent years doing the same things. This stuff is everywhere and I don't think Vandy v. Georgetown matters for that reason, unless you're thinking Gtown is close to home, she'll just escape home. And if you're thinking that, I'd caution against it because she needs to deal with this stuff in life, whether it's her T14 law school or biglaw or wherever else.

To be clear, we're not trying to shelter her. She's an adult and has attended a huge school and been in a sorority for a year. I think we all recognize that sexual assault happens on all campuses, no matter how elite and is often swept under the rug. (I attended a lower-tier Ivy, and a male student alleged to have committed date rape was quietly asked to leave. He transferred to Yale. The consequence of his behavior, a higher ranked school. At least he isn't on the Supreme Court, yet).

What I was trying to assess and other posters have addressed is the campus culture toward women generally, not sexual assault. To be as high caliber as it is, I do worry that Vandy campus culture toward women seems paradoxically regressive in certain ways (not just because of the men but the women as well) -- maybe it's a southern thing (and I grew up in the South before any southerners here get y'alls backs up), maybe it's that 40% of students participate in Greek life, maybe it's being in the SEC.

If it were a big state school in the South, I wouldn't have asked. My D has struggled with an eating disorder, and it would be nice if she could be in an environment where she can just work hard and enjoy herself without undue pressure toward constantly having to look or dress a certain way to fit in. I recognize that might be unrealistic. Thanks.

Southern sorority life should not be typified for all large Southern universities. Sorority life at Alabama is quite different than at Georgia and very different than sorority life at Georgia Tech. SMU & Alabama have similarities. Sorority life at Vanderbilt is more like that at SMU & Alabama,then that at Georgia & Georgia Tech.

As an aside: There is a website about current problems & issues at Georgetown. It has been cited on DCUM, but I do not recall the website. Have read (secondhand info) that it addresses a variety of issues including housing problems, social life, as well as academic issues at Georgetown. Perhaps another poster can share the link to this website.

We have neighbors and friends currently at Georgetown who speak highly of it, and who have done well by it. Perhaps you can link these "stories", so we can all be apprised - provided the stories are at all true, of course. If anything throws off current students, it might be that Georgetown tends to ask for donations while the students are still in school. I think that practice tends to rub parents the wrong way, understandably so.

[Anonymous]

OP: Why are you posting this? Your daughter should be encouraged to make her own decision. Based on working many years with undergraduates I can tell you you are doing your daughter a grave injustice based on where you are coming from. Based on my experience, you have no capacity to understand this.
The biggest age of self discovery are the years of an undergraduate. Your daughter is clearly telling you she wants xyz and you think you are doing the best to facilitate this. It is detrimental to her happiness and success to get out from under your influence, however well intended. The best thing you can do for your child is let her go figure it out. STOP doing YOUR research and influencing your child. Time to step back. She sounds brilliant and is at a point in her life where pleasing her parents is a guarantee for failure. If you live in the DC area insist she NOT go to GU.
This is a massive turning point in her life….and yours. Encourage physical distance from home in an environment where she can discover new things. Let her grow up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP: Why are you posting this? Your daughter should be encouraged to make her own decision. Based on working many years with undergraduates I can tell you you are doing your daughter a grave injustice based on where you are coming from. Based on my experience, you have no capacity to understand this.
The biggest age of self discovery are the years of an undergraduate. Your daughter is clearly telling you she wants xyz and you think you are doing the best to facilitate this. It is detrimental to her happiness and success to get out from under your influence, however well intended. The best thing you can do for your child is let her go figure it out. STOP doing YOUR research and influencing your child. Time to step back. She sounds brilliant and is at a point in her life where pleasing her parents is a guarantee for failure. If you live in the DC area insist she NOT go to GU.
This is a massive turning point in her life….and yours. Encourage physical distance from home in an environment where she can discover new things. Let her grow up.

That was incredibly unhelpful.