If you left Big Law…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should be fine based on what you've said. You or your husband should be able to review your expenses over the last year or 6 months online pretty easily to ensure that is the case.
The one thing I'll say is your husband will probably not want to go back to big law (depending on the area of expertise, he probably can without much difficulty in a better legal market but the desire is unlikely to be there), so the two of you should think about this as a longer term move to a lower income group. Reviewing expenses is important even with great savings because one of you might look at an expense differently in 2 months creating some disagreement.

I'd encourage you to stay a little more involved in your family's overall financial planning too!

Alternative voice here…my DH is a GS-15 lawyer with the government. Take home after healthcare, pension contribution (which will be 4.1% for a new government employee), fsa, and taxes is about $8,000/month (with two extra paychecks per year). That’s assuming no 401k contributions. After their mortgage they are looking at $3500/month for all other expenses. Is it doable without drawing from savings? Doubtful or difficult. And very unlikely he’ll want to go back. If OP doesn’t want to work I think DH should look in-house or this isn’t going to be very sustainable. We have a similar mortgage but I work.

GS-15 attorney who also takes home a similar amount after taxes, health insurance, retirement, dependent care etc. Is your $2M in savings your retirement savings too? If so I would not be comfortable. I think you need to go back to work to make this a feasible plan.

[Anonymous]

Figure out what his likely salary would be. Make a budget based on that. Live on that budget while he's job hunting. Save the excess. It will build up your cushion and also give you time to adjust. You can absolutely live on that with the savings you already have.

[Anonymous]

You certainly have enough to do this for a few years - I think the question is whether you can maintain your lifestyle if it becomes permanent. Given that your DH is miserable in his job, that seems like something you have to at least take seriously as a possibility. On a typical GS-15, a $4500 mortgage is doable but it doesn't leave room for much else. If you guys are low spenders it might be fine, but you may want to consider going back to work after your kids are all in school.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Did not expect a four page thread on this but I should have known better

So to answer some questions, first off DH hasn’t been making 7 figures as partner for five years, just for the last one. He was 500K, then 650, 800, etc. He worked his way up.

Yes, our savings are our retirement as well, hence why I’m anxious.

For the PP who asked why he’s miserable- I think most people who have been in big law or know someone married to Big law know the answer, but it’s relentless. You’re either crazy busy and stressed or not busy and stressed because you’re worrying about billable hours. You’re at the mercy of the clients anytime day or night. But most of all it’s cutthroat and money and clients are power and DH just doesn’t like to operate that way.

And yes, he’s had a government job before. This is his second firm, and he did five years in govt between them. He loved every second and was so happy, but we then had a third child and our oldest was starting school and we needed to leave DC for better schools and a bigger house so he took one for the team.

And I have never said I’m not open to going back to work once my youngest is in school full day. But as I said I’m a teacher and even if I go back, while it would help, I’m not going to be bringing in anything significant.

Our spending is primarily mortgage, household bills, and food. He’s often not home for dinner and I have three young kids so we eat out or order in more than we would if he switched jobs. His law school loans are paid off, and we have no other debt. I think like a lot of people out discretionary spending is Amazon purchases and target runs and yes it all adds up. We would 100% be willing to rein that in. My concern stems just from the basics- food, mortgage, bills, etc. Our older two kids do a lot of sports (not summer camps because I’m
Home with them and they don’t need to) but we aren’t willing to budge in spending for their activities. We are also committed to 100% financing their undergraduate educations. Neither DH nor I had any undergraduate student loans and we feel very strongly about starting off kids off without debt. If they decide to go to med school or law school or what have you, if we are able to help we will but no guarantees in that front.

[Anonymous]

He's a junior partner right now with very little control over his schedule. If he spends a few years in a high level govt post, he can come back to BigLaw as a rainmaker (or a senior level of counsel) with more control. He'll move up the totem pole. I think it makes sense as long as he moves to the right govt position.

I don't think you'll be happy living on one govt salary. That's hard to do around here. You should consider getting a job or agree that the government job will be temporary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Did not expect a four page thread on this but I should have known better

So to answer some questions, first off DH hasn’t been making 7 figures as partner for five years, just for the last one. He was 500K, then 650, 800, etc. He worked his way up.

Yes, our savings are our retirement as well, hence why I’m anxious.

For the PP who asked why he’s miserable- I think most people who have been in big law or know someone married to Big law know the answer, but it’s relentless. You’re either crazy busy and stressed or not busy and stressed because you’re worrying about billable hours. You’re at the mercy of the clients anytime day or night. But most of all it’s cutthroat and money and clients are power and DH just doesn’t like to operate that way.

And yes, he’s had a government job before. This is his second firm, and he did five years in govt between them. He loved every second and was so happy, but we then had a third child and our oldest was starting school and we needed to leave DC for better schools and a bigger house so he took one for the team.

And I have never said I’m not open to going back to work once my youngest is in school full day. But as I said I’m a teacher and even if I go back, while it would help, I’m not going to be bringing in anything significant.

Our spending is primarily mortgage, household bills, and food. He’s often not home for dinner and I have three young kids so we eat out or order in more than we would if he switched jobs. His law school loans are paid off, and we have no other debt. I think like a lot of people out discretionary spending is Amazon purchases and target runs and yes it all adds up. We would 100% be willing to rein that in. My concern stems just from the basics- food, mortgage, bills, etc. Our older two kids do a lot of sports (not summer camps because I’m
Home with them and they don’t need to) but we aren’t willing to budge in spending for their activities. We are also committed to 100% financing their undergraduate educations. Neither DH nor I had any undergraduate student loans and we feel very strongly about starting off kids off without debt. If they decide to go to med school or law school or what have you, if we are able to help we will but no guarantees in that front.

Teachers still make $60k+ and that plus at GS-15 salary absolutely would make a difference for your family. But just admit you’d prefer your husband keep making the big bucks while you stay home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Did not expect a four page thread on this but I should have known better

So to answer some questions, first off DH hasn’t been making 7 figures as partner for five years, just for the last one. He was 500K, then 650, 800, etc. He worked his way up.

Yes, our savings are our retirement as well, hence why I’m anxious.

For the PP who asked why he’s miserable- I think most people who have been in big law or know someone married to Big law know the answer, but it’s relentless. You’re either crazy busy and stressed or not busy and stressed because you’re worrying about billable hours. You’re at the mercy of the clients anytime day or night. But most of all it’s cutthroat and money and clients are power and DH just doesn’t like to operate that way.

And yes, he’s had a government job before. This is his second firm, and he did five years in govt between them. He loved every second and was so happy, but we then had a third child and our oldest was starting school and we needed to leave DC for better schools and a bigger house so he took one for the team.

And I have never said I’m not open to going back to work once my youngest is in school full day. But as I said I’m a teacher and even if I go back, while it would help, I’m not going to be bringing in anything significant.

Our spending is primarily mortgage, household bills, and food. He’s often not home for dinner and I have three young kids so we eat out or order in more than we would if he switched jobs. His law school loans are paid off, and we have no other debt. I think like a lot of people out discretionary spending is Amazon purchases and target runs and yes it all adds up. We would 100% be willing to rein that in. My concern stems just from the basics- food, mortgage, bills, etc. Our older two kids do a lot of sports (not summer camps because I’m
Home with them and they don’t need to) but we aren’t willing to budge in spending for their activities. We are also committed to 100% financing their undergraduate educations. Neither DH nor I had any undergraduate student loans and we feel very strongly about starting off kids off without debt. If they decide to go to med school or law school or what have you, if we are able to help we will but no guarantees in that front.

Teacher is perfect OP. You get summers off and don't have to spend on summer nannie or camps.

He will be home for dinner if he is a fed. And you can cook big pots on the weekend so you have less work during the week. I cook beans and enough chicken for 3-4 days, so we don't have to make dinner every day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh gosh, give the poor guy a break! He’s wildly unhappy? Let him try something else. I’m sorry but this seems wildly selfish. Nice your youngest is out of preschool, you could get a job because even though you discussed it, things have now changed. He’s begging you to let him stop being miserable. Please, let him.

Totally agree with this. Your husband manages your money well; he'll continue to do so when he's making less salary. If you don't take this one for the team, then you are not a team player, and he deserves better.
.

[Anonymous]

We had a $4,500 mortgage on $200k income with three kids. We had before and aftercare for two kids and summer camp for all three because we both worked. Our childcare was in highly subsidized programs so it was really cheap. The reality is that we had to be really careful with spending.

I don’t think you have a choice. And you’ve got nice savings. But don’t underestimate the lifestyle changes.

[Anonymous]

If you had $5 mill in retirement, I would say go for it. Or if you planned to work. If you don’t make enough as a preschool teacher, there are plenty of ways to get into a new field. But anyway, if you don’t plan to, it will be so tight to be a family of 5 on $160k. It can be done and is by many but not by those who previously earned 1mill. You will not be able to save anything more for college or retirement. College savings seem fine but you don’t have enough for 2 people’s retirement.

Figure out how you can help alleviate stress for your husband rather than expecting him to be the sole breadwinner. You need to help solve this problem for your family. You’re an adult and not a child in this scenario. Staying at home is wonderful if your family doesn’t need a second income. That’s not the case for your family if your husband gets a govt job.

Either that or buckle down until you get to 5mill in retirement and then he can do as he wishes.

[Anonymous]

Start living now on what his take home will be and see how it feels. Bonus, you'll save more while you're doing it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Did not expect a four page thread on this but I should have known better

So to answer some questions, first off DH hasn’t been making 7 figures as partner for five years, just for the last one. He was 500K, then 650, 800, etc. He worked his way up.

Yes, our savings are our retirement as well, hence why I’m anxious.

For the PP who asked why he’s miserable- I think most people who have been in big law or know someone married to Big law know the answer, but it’s relentless. You’re either crazy busy and stressed or not busy and stressed because you’re worrying about billable hours. You’re at the mercy of the clients anytime day or night. But most of all it’s cutthroat and money and clients are power and DH just doesn’t like to operate that way.

And yes, he’s had a government job before. This is his second firm, and he did five years in govt between them. He loved every second and was so happy, but we then had a third child and our oldest was starting school and we needed to leave DC for better schools and a bigger house so he took one for the team.

And I have never said I’m not open to going back to work once my youngest is in school full day. But as I said I’m a teacher and even if I go back, while it would help, I’m not going to be bringing in anything significant.

Our spending is primarily mortgage, household bills, and food. He’s often not home for dinner and I have three young kids so we eat out or order in more than we would if he switched jobs. His law school loans are paid off, and we have no other debt. I think like a lot of people out discretionary spending is Amazon purchases and target runs and yes it all adds up. We would 100% be willing to rein that in. My concern stems just from the basics- food, mortgage, bills, etc. Our older two kids do a lot of sports (not summer camps because I’m
Home with them and they don’t need to) but we aren’t willing to budge in spending for their activities. We are also committed to 100% financing their undergraduate educations. Neither DH nor I had any undergraduate student loans and we feel very strongly about starting off kids off without debt. If they decide to go to med school or law school or what have you, if we are able to help we will but no guarantees in that front.

I’m a GS-15 lawyer with 3 kids in public school and a similar mortgage situation to yours, and my DH is pretty miserable with a stressful, high-paying job. A few years ago, we tried an experiment where I attempted to pay all our expenses for a year from my salary alone to give us a sense of what our lives would be like if he quit his job abruptly. I made it about 9 months before I needed a cash infusion, and those 9 months were awfully stressful. It probably would have been doable if we never ate out or spent money on other discretionary purchases, but that’s not fun if you are used to not budgeting.

I do have a lot of sympathy for your DH, as you only get one life and spending all your working hours in misery is a terrible way to live. I agree with others that it would make sense for your DH to look for a less stressful job that payers more than a government salary. I also think you are too quick to dismiss your potential future financial contributions to the family. It wouldn’t be very hard to get additional teaching certifications once your youngest is a bit older, and a public MS or HS teacher around here makes decent money.

[Anonymous]

I could have written your post a few years back, OP. We were in a similar financial situation with similar goals, especially regarding our kids' education. At that time DH had been a Big Law partner for 10 years. He liked his work and clients, but wanted to do something in public service (he had been in government for the first couple of years after law school). I am a lawyer, but was staying home at the time. We decided that he would go back into government for a few years and then decided whether to return to private practice. He ended up staying for eight years and I went back to work part-time in an NGO (so not raking in the big bucks). We're now both retired. Do we have fancy cars? Nope. Do I have expensive jewelry? Nope. Do we travel first class and stay at luxury hotels? Nope. But we are extremely comfortable, able to enjoy some of life's pleasures, able to support some organizations and causes we believe in, and able to meet our financial goals for retirement and helping our kids get started in life. So, in short, we're not living like some of the folks we know who stayed in Big Law, but we would make the same choices again in a heartbeat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you really are low spenders, then you should be fine if he gets a Gov job. But I'm questioning whether you really are low spenders. $2M in savings for someone earning 7 figures for 5 years, plus probably high six figures before that, seems kind of low. Seems like maybe you are spending more than you think. I think you need to realistically track spending for a while and see what you are truly spending.

+1 this seems shockingly low for that salary range.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Did not expect a four page thread on this but I should have known better

So to answer some questions, first off DH hasn’t been making 7 figures as partner for five years, just for the last one. He was 500K, then 650, 800, etc. He worked his way up.

Yes, our savings are our retirement as well, hence why I’m anxious.

For the PP who asked why he’s miserable- I think most people who have been in big law or know someone married to Big law know the answer, but it’s relentless. You’re either crazy busy and stressed or not busy and stressed because you’re worrying about billable hours. You’re at the mercy of the clients anytime day or night. But most of all it’s cutthroat and money and clients are power and DH just doesn’t like to operate that way.

And yes, he’s had a government job before. This is his second firm, and he did five years in govt between them. He loved every second and was so happy, but we then had a third child and our oldest was starting school and we needed to leave DC for better schools and a bigger house so he took one for the team.

And I have never said I’m not open to going back to work once my youngest is in school full day. But as I said I’m a teacher and even if I go back, while it would help, I’m not going to be bringing in anything significant.

Our spending is primarily mortgage, household bills, and food. He’s often not home for dinner and I have three young kids so we eat out or order in more than we would if he switched jobs. His law school loans are paid off, and we have no other debt. I think like a lot of people out discretionary spending is Amazon purchases and target runs and yes it all adds up. We would 100% be willing to rein that in. My concern stems just from the basics- food, mortgage, bills, etc. Our older two kids do a lot of sports (not summer camps because I’m
Home with them and they don’t need to) but we aren’t willing to budge in spending for their activities. We are also committed to 100% financing their undergraduate educations. Neither DH nor I had any undergraduate student loans and we feel very strongly about starting off kids off without debt. If they decide to go to med school or law school or what have you, if we are able to help we will but no guarantees in that front.

I’m a GS-15 lawyer with 3 kids in public school and a similar mortgage situation to yours, and my DH is pretty miserable with a stressful, high-paying job. A few years ago, we tried an experiment where I attempted to pay all our expenses for a year from my salary alone to give us a sense of what our lives would be like if he quit his job abruptly. I made it about 9 months before I needed a cash infusion, and those 9 months were awfully stressful. It probably would have been doable if we never ate out or spent money on other discretionary purchases, but that’s not fun if you are used to not budgeting.

I do have a lot of sympathy for your DH, as you only get one life and spending all your working hours in misery is a terrible way to live. I agree with others that it would make sense for your DH to look for a less stressful job that payers more than a government salary. I also think you are too quick to dismiss your potential future financial contributions to the family. It wouldn’t be very hard to get additional teaching certifications once your youngest is a bit older, and a public MS or HS teacher around here makes decent money.

Public school teachers are not paid based on what grade they teach. It’s simply a grid that looks at level of education (bachelors, masters, masters +30, etc.) on one axis and years of work on the other. OP could teacher kindergarten or AP calculus and would be paid the same.