Colleges without overzealous “honor codes” or “honor councils”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m baffled by this thread. People actually want a school with no honor code and no integrity? They feel tuition is too expensive so there should be no consequences should their kid cheat? Who are you people? I am a white collar prosecutor. I suspect I will meet many of your offspring in coming years.

People aren’t worried about the honor code as such. They are worried about inconsistent application of the honor code by fellow students looking to persecute other students for reasons that may not be proportional to the original offense.

[Anonymous]

My DS actually selected a wonderful SLAC based on its strong honor code. He loved the idea of being in an environment with others that value honesty and integrity. The honor code mentality is very much a continuation of his Franciscan education. This lynch mob nonsense is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

I went to a school without an honor council. Disciplinary cases were heard by an old, mean priest we steered clear of. I’d rather a big jury of my peers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DS actually selected a wonderful SLAC based on its strong honor code. He loved the idea of being in an environment with others that value honesty and integrity. The honor code mentality is very much a continuation of his Franciscan education. This lynch mob nonsense is ridiculous.

I don’t know. Have you seen the footage from (for instance) Stanford Law School? Do you truly think those students would be fair and impartial?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid really liked schools with an honor code (like Haverford and Davidson).

The tour guides gave examples of how you could leave your backpack in the library and come back without it being stolen. Or one incident where someone found a ten dollar bill on the ground and tacked it to a bulletin board for the owner to retrieve it.

What kind of kid would be worried about a place that values honor and integrity?

A kid who doesn’t like being unjustly accused or expelled in college. A kid who doesn’t want to be bullied in some “student court.”

Then this kid (or parent) needs to get his anxiety under control. Went to Stanford back in the day. Because of the Honor Code, all exams were unproctored and it was great knowing that everyone respected each other enough to NOT cheat (although there was one famous episode in Philip Zimbardo's Psych class that got a bunch of people suspended.) How many people do you think going around falsely accusing classmates?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are universities that don’t have honor codes? My kids are at different private k-12 and they have honor codes that address cheating, plagiarism etc. not something I’m concerned about so I never researched honor codes at universities just assumed they all had a codified honor system. Honor council by peers is understandably tricky but if not peers then it would be faculty, administrators and student representatives I think.

All schools have requirements for "academic integrity," which is to say it's not OK to cheat on tests or plagiarize, etc.

Some schools have honor codes under which students take unproctored exams, or even (in the case of Haverford) self-scheduled exams.

Do your kids have take-home exams? Self-scheduled exams? Do their teachers run essays through plagiarism checkers?

The down side of some schools' honor codes is that the honor council can play favorites or unfavorites, so the kid everyone knows is a plagiarist keeps getting off with a slap on the wrist, and the quiet nerd without a bunch of friends on the council gets sent home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid really liked schools with an honor code (like Haverford and Davidson).

The tour guides gave examples of how you could leave your backpack in the library and come back without it being stolen. Or one incident where someone found a ten dollar bill on the ground and tacked it to a bulletin board for the owner to retrieve it.

What kind of kid would be worried about a place that values honor and integrity?

A kid who doesn’t like being unjustly accused or expelled in college. A kid who doesn’t want to be bullied in some “student court.”

Then this kid (or parent) needs to get his anxiety under control. Went to Stanford back in the day. Because of the Honor Code, all exams were unproctored and it was great knowing that everyone respected each other enough to NOT cheat (although there was one famous episode in Philip Zimbardo's Psych class that got a bunch of people suspended.) How many people do you think going around falsely accusing classmates?

Probably more than a few as evidenced by the Katie Meyer and Jennifer Gries (staffer) cases…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are universities that don’t have honor codes? My kids are at different private k-12 and they have honor codes that address cheating, plagiarism etc. not something I’m concerned about so I never researched honor codes at universities just assumed they all had a codified honor system. Honor council by peers is understandably tricky but if not peers then it would be faculty, administrators and student representatives I think.

All schools have requirements for "academic integrity," which is to say it's not OK to cheat on tests or plagiarize, etc.

Some schools have honor codes under which students take unproctored exams, or even (in the case of Haverford) self-scheduled exams.

Do your kids have take-home exams? Self-scheduled exams? Do their teachers run essays through plagiarism checkers?

The down side of some schools' honor codes is that the honor council can play favorites or unfavorites, so the kid everyone knows is a plagiarist keeps getting off with a slap on the wrist, and the quiet nerd without a bunch of friends on the council gets sent home.

This seems like such a strange thing to be worried about. The possibility that your kid gets brought before an honor council of his peers and the majority of the members on the council do not like him so they punish him unfairly seems so small.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know a lot of adults with anxiety who worry about this sort of stuff. They’re the people least likely to cheat.

Some of us have witnessed the unequal judgment of kids in general. The prom Queen who everyone assumes would neverrrrrr do anything wrong or the debate captain who the adults think is the greatest kid ever but he’s the one who supplied the vape cartridges and brings beer to events. Those are the kids who get out of honor council punishments while the kid with depression is reprimanded for his bad attitude.

You have to be either seriously privileged and protected or terribly naive to think adolescents getting official peer judgment is a great idea.

[Anonymous]

Our top private HS had this long honor code that you needed to write into each and every exam and assignment. It was like students are presumed to be cheating and presumed guilty. Very, very distasteful