Are you scared of being dependent on others in old age?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today’s lifestyle is not set up to care for aging parents. Lives are busier now and parents shouldn’t burden their kids. Its nice for them to check on but have a plan in place as if you never had kids.

I think this is part of it, but also people are developing their own illnesses while dealing with parents that need to take priority and modern medicine (while working miracles for some) has made is so some elders can live a long time in very poor shape. Add to that the longer you live, the more likely you are to get dementia and some people develop angry abusive dementia. Society is then asking thr sandwhich generation to do the impossible even if we don't move our parents in with us. Many of us are visiting and coordinating things for hostile parents who know our triggers while dealing with raising our own kids still at home and working and managing our own health issues (autoimmune and other issues are on the rise). It's one thing to periodically get emergency calls for a year or 2. When it goes on for years and years, it is near impossible not to burn out.

People often refer to more traditional family oriented-cultures doing it right. In many of the cases I know of 1st generation or immigrant friends from these cultures, the parents provided a ton of parenting support up until they couldn't often cooking the meals, providing childcare, etc. Some of us have parents who had stable jobs with reasonable hours and amazing benefits all of which they took for granted. They retired to go enjoy their cruises or frolic in Florida and made it clear they were not the babysit or even help in emergency type (unless you couldn't find anyone else). They left the worst parts of eldercare to their siblings or found a residential and had no problems visiting little. Then they get old and need you and they want you to cater, cater, cater. And they get difficult and they start comapring you to those wonderful family oriented adult children who move mom in-leaving out that the same grandma acted as a free nanny for years and dotes on them rather than making every conversation full of insults, comparison, guilt trips and/or manipulations.

It's not just about being scared of being dependent for me, it's about being scared of being horrible to my adult children and doing in their sanity and physical health. We will move to a CCRC and make it clear to our kids they can give consent to have medicated to be nice! Also, if nothing helps and I become abusive, just make sure I am safe, but lead your life and don't let me destroy you.

"We will move to a CCRC and make it clear to our kids they can give consent to have medicated to be nice! Also, if nothing helps and I become abusive, just make sure I am safe, but lead your life and don't let me destroy you."

Not only will you be medicated to "be nice" but you WILL be medicated to the point you are almost catatonic. This is what is already happening in long-term care facilities. There aren't enough caregivers to make sure people are "safe" so the only option is drug them up, leave them in bed with a diaper and let them (eventually) rot away. While you may not care, it will still be difficult for any loved ones to come and see you in that condition.

I'm not the pp you are quoting, but I am the pp that said I 100% agree with them.

What are you suggesting as the alternative?

The only alternative is to first get the voting populace involved in gaining awareness of how the industry works. And make no mistake that elder care is an INDUSTRY and thanks to many lax laws, they can exploit government resources (Medicare/Medicaid) and do so while neglecting basic care for fragile human beings. It's very easy for them to collect big payments and dish out drugs to keep everything and everybody nice and quiet.

I've always said that if we treat our children like we do our elderly there would be a march on Washington like no other. But most people don't want to think about the unthinkable - which is growing older, weaker and more vulnerable. Until it's their turn.

Currently, the standards for hands-on care time is appalling. In some states it's not even enough to properly feed those that need assistance (stroke victims who cannot use utensils but are still fully mentally capable) let alone bathe, clothe or assist them into a wheelchair and allow leave their room. Forget about going out to a courtyard for fresh air. Some haven't breathed it in years. Staff shortages are legendary and are getting worse. No one wants to care for elderly. No one.

The Chinese are developing huge high-rise complexes for the elderly where just about everything is automated and there are a few staff members who monitor via a central command center. They have special mats the people lie on, so urine just drains away. They have robots who can do other caregiving tasks. Essentially, the elderly are warehoused like livestock and have very little human contact for their care.

This is OUR future. You won't have to worry about anyone taking care of you because no one will.

You didn’t actually propose any alternative.

Yes, I did. Stated right up front. Getting the voting populace to get involved in the issue will drive alternatives and there are lots of them.

Maybe it's changing legislation so that smaller and home-based care facilities are able to flourish and aren't driven out by corporations. Maybe it's providing full-ride scholarships for those who want to specialize in elder medical care or elder law. Maybe it's providing employment visas specifically for those who have documented (and certified) elder-care nursing skills. Maybe it's providing monetary or other resources to establish community-based groups (including medical professionals) which have a mandate to oversee elder care facilities on a regular basis. Maybe it's developing a Federal standard to ensure that when neglect or other issues are discovered, there is an actual PUNISHMENT doled out to the facility owner which will have significant impact on them, instead of a slap on the wrist and business as usual (as it is now). Maybe it's building more subsidized senior day care facilities and transportation, which gives family caregivers a respite.

You're venturing into TL;DR territory. Perhaps untangle that paragraph and drop into bullet points. Or if you share with your state and federal lawmakers, then do so. You have some ideas there, but it is just one long run-on rant.

Also, getting the voting populace involved - they need a platform to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today’s lifestyle is not set up to care for aging parents. Lives are busier now and parents shouldn’t burden their kids. Its nice for them to check on but have a plan in place as if you never had kids.

I think this is part of it, but also people are developing their own illnesses while dealing with parents that need to take priority and modern medicine (while working miracles for some) has made is so some elders can live a long time in very poor shape. Add to that the longer you live, the more likely you are to get dementia and some people develop angry abusive dementia. Society is then asking thr sandwhich generation to do the impossible even if we don't move our parents in with us. Many of us are visiting and coordinating things for hostile parents who know our triggers while dealing with raising our own kids still at home and working and managing our own health issues (autoimmune and other issues are on the rise). It's one thing to periodically get emergency calls for a year or 2. When it goes on for years and years, it is near impossible not to burn out.

People often refer to more traditional family oriented-cultures doing it right. In many of the cases I know of 1st generation or immigrant friends from these cultures, the parents provided a ton of parenting support up until they couldn't often cooking the meals, providing childcare, etc. Some of us have parents who had stable jobs with reasonable hours and amazing benefits all of which they took for granted. They retired to go enjoy their cruises or frolic in Florida and made it clear they were not the babysit or even help in emergency type (unless you couldn't find anyone else). They left the worst parts of eldercare to their siblings or found a residential and had no problems visiting little. Then they get old and need you and they want you to cater, cater, cater. And they get difficult and they start comapring you to those wonderful family oriented adult children who move mom in-leaving out that the same grandma acted as a free nanny for years and dotes on them rather than making every conversation full of insults, comparison, guilt trips and/or manipulations.

It's not just about being scared of being dependent for me, it's about being scared of being horrible to my adult children and doing in their sanity and physical health. We will move to a CCRC and make it clear to our kids they can give consent to have medicated to be nice! Also, if nothing helps and I become abusive, just make sure I am safe, but lead your life and don't let me destroy you.

"We will move to a CCRC and make it clear to our kids they can give consent to have medicated to be nice! Also, if nothing helps and I become abusive, just make sure I am safe, but lead your life and don't let me destroy you."

Not only will you be medicated to "be nice" but you WILL be medicated to the point you are almost catatonic. This is what is already happening in long-term care facilities. There aren't enough caregivers to make sure people are "safe" so the only option is drug them up, leave them in bed with a diaper and let them (eventually) rot away. While you may not care, it will still be difficult for any loved ones to come and see you in that condition.

I'm not the pp you are quoting, but I am the pp that said I 100% agree with them.

What are you suggesting as the alternative?

The only alternative is to first get the voting populace involved in gaining awareness of how the industry works. And make no mistake that elder care is an INDUSTRY and thanks to many lax laws, they can exploit government resources (Medicare/Medicaid) and do so while neglecting basic care for fragile human beings. It's very easy for them to collect big payments and dish out drugs to keep everything and everybody nice and quiet.

I've always said that if we treat our children like we do our elderly there would be a march on Washington like no other. But most people don't want to think about the unthinkable - which is growing older, weaker and more vulnerable. Until it's their turn.

Currently, the standards for hands-on care time is appalling. In some states it's not even enough to properly feed those that need assistance (stroke victims who cannot use utensils but are still fully mentally capable) let alone bathe, clothe or assist them into a wheelchair and allow leave their room. Forget about going out to a courtyard for fresh air. Some haven't breathed it in years. Staff shortages are legendary and are getting worse. No one wants to care for elderly. No one.

The Chinese are developing huge high-rise complexes for the elderly where just about everything is automated and there are a few staff members who monitor via a central command center. They have special mats the people lie on, so urine just drains away. They have robots who can do other caregiving tasks. Essentially, the elderly are warehoused like livestock and have very little human contact for their care.

This is OUR future. You won't have to worry about anyone taking care of you because no one will.

You didn’t actually propose any alternative.

Yes, I did. Stated right up front. Getting the voting populace to get involved in the issue will drive alternatives and there are lots of them.

Maybe it's changing legislation so that smaller and home-based care facilities are able to flourish and aren't driven out by corporations. Maybe it's providing full-ride scholarships for those who want to specialize in elder medical care or elder law. Maybe it's providing employment visas specifically for those who have documented (and certified) elder-care nursing skills. Maybe it's providing monetary or other resources to establish community-based groups (including medical professionals) which have a mandate to oversee elder care facilities on a regular basis. Maybe it's developing a Federal standard to ensure that when neglect or other issues are discovered, there is an actual PUNISHMENT doled out to the facility owner which will have significant impact on them, instead of a slap on the wrist and business as usual (as it is now). Maybe it's building more subsidized senior day care facilities and transportation, which gives family caregivers a respite.

You're venturing into TL;DR territory. Perhaps untangle that paragraph and drop into bullet points. Or if you share with your state and federal lawmakers, then do so. You have some ideas there, but it is just one long run-on rant.

Also, getting the voting populace involved - they need a platform to do so.

Case in point. I proposed alternatives but it is interesting that you think it was TL;DR and your first comment is on a petty format issue rather than substance.

Do you work or lobby for the long-term care industry, by any chance?

[Anonymous]

There’s a woman who filmed her 91yo mom climbing over a banister and doing well. If you take care of yourself, you’ll be fine.

[Anonymous]

I’ve been working in hospice care for the last seven years so I think about this a LOT.

I have already saved toward the trip I will take to a country or state that has medical aid in dying. I hope my own state will have it when the time comes, we are on the fast track to passing such legislation. However I continue to save because our puritanical influences in the USA mean most medical aid in dying is only available to people with a <6 months life expectancy due to documented terminal illness. I would like to be able to get my phenobarbital cocktail as soon as I start having symptoms of significant cognitive impairment that could advance to where I am no longer considered competent to request medical aid in dying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How are you going to limit length of your life? Suicide is illegal, unacceptable in most religions and traumatic for loved ones.

Not if you’re successful

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are you going to limit length of your life? Suicide is illegal, unacceptable in most religions and traumatic for loved ones.

I'm not the pp that said that, but I feel the same way.

I won't seek medical treatment after a certain point. I think surgery, chemo, and other "life saving" interventions after age 70 is wasteful and absurd.

I mean I personally don’t think I’ll go to great lengths to keep living once I’m over age 70 either but that’s really not that old anymore to say someone shouldn’t still pursue surgery, chemo. My parents are mid 70s and healthy and I feel they have a lot of life left.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are you going to limit length of your life? Suicide is illegal, unacceptable in most religions and traumatic for loved ones.

Not if you’re successful

Not if you’re unsuccessful, either. I don’t believe there is any jurisdiction in the USA where suicide is still illegal in the criminal code. ASSISTING or encouraging suicide is another matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are you going to limit length of your life? Suicide is illegal, unacceptable in most religions and traumatic for loved ones.

There are places overseas where you can do this. There's a pod place in Switzerland.

Euthanasia is legal in the Netherlands and in Belgium too, but I don't know if you need to be a resident of those countries to be eligible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Today’s lifestyle is not set up to care for aging parents. Lives are busier now and parents shouldn’t burden their kids. Its nice for them to check on but have a plan in place as if you never had kids.

I think this is part of it, but also people are developing their own illnesses while dealing with parents that need to take priority and modern medicine (while working miracles for some) has made is so some elders can live a long time in very poor shape. Add to that the longer you live, the more likely you are to get dementia and some people develop angry abusive dementia. Society is then asking thr sandwhich generation to do the impossible even if we don't move our parents in with us. Many of us are visiting and coordinating things for hostile parents who know our triggers while dealing with raising our own kids still at home and working and managing our own health issues (autoimmune and other issues are on the rise). It's one thing to periodically get emergency calls for a year or 2. When it goes on for years and years, it is near impossible not to burn out.

People often refer to more traditional family oriented-cultures doing it right. In many of the cases I know of 1st generation or immigrant friends from these cultures, the parents provided a ton of parenting support up until they couldn't often cooking the meals, providing childcare, etc. Some of us have parents who had stable jobs with reasonable hours and amazing benefits all of which they took for granted. They retired to go enjoy their cruises or frolic in Florida and made it clear they were not the babysit or even help in emergency type (unless you couldn't find anyone else). They left the worst parts of eldercare to their siblings or found a residential and had no problems visiting little. Then they get old and need you and they want you to cater, cater, cater. And they get difficult and they start comapring you to those wonderful family oriented adult children who move mom in-leaving out that the same grandma acted as a free nanny for years and dotes on them rather than making every conversation full of insults, comparison, guilt trips and/or manipulations.

It's not just about being scared of being dependent for me, it's about being scared of being horrible to my adult children and doing in their sanity and physical health. We will move to a CCRC and make it clear to our kids they can give consent to have medicated to be nice! Also, if nothing helps and I become abusive, just make sure I am safe, but lead your life and don't let me destroy you.

"We will move to a CCRC and make it clear to our kids they can give consent to have medicated to be nice! Also, if nothing helps and I become abusive, just make sure I am safe, but lead your life and don't let me destroy you."

Not only will you be medicated to "be nice" but you WILL be medicated to the point you are almost catatonic. This is what is already happening in long-term care facilities. There aren't enough caregivers to make sure people are "safe" so the only option is drug them up, leave them in bed with a diaper and let them (eventually) rot away. While you may not care, it will still be difficult for any loved ones to come and see you in that condition.

I'm not the pp you are quoting, but I am the pp that said I 100% agree with them.

What are you suggesting as the alternative?

The only alternative is to first get the voting populace involved in gaining awareness of how the industry works. And make no mistake that elder care is an INDUSTRY and thanks to many lax laws, they can exploit government resources (Medicare/Medicaid) and do so while neglecting basic care for fragile human beings. It's very easy for them to collect big payments and dish out drugs to keep everything and everybody nice and quiet.

I've always said that if we treat our children like we do our elderly there would be a march on Washington like no other. But most people don't want to think about the unthinkable - which is growing older, weaker and more vulnerable. Until it's their turn.

Currently, the standards for hands-on care time is appalling. In some states it's not even enough to properly feed those that need assistance (stroke victims who cannot use utensils but are still fully mentally capable) let alone bathe, clothe or assist them into a wheelchair and allow leave their room. Forget about going out to a courtyard for fresh air. Some haven't breathed it in years. Staff shortages are legendary and are getting worse. No one wants to care for elderly. No one.

The Chinese are developing huge high-rise complexes for the elderly where just about everything is automated and there are a few staff members who monitor via a central command center. They have special mats the people lie on, so urine just drains away. They have robots who can do other caregiving tasks. Essentially, the elderly are warehoused like livestock and have very little human contact for their care.

This is OUR future. You won't have to worry about anyone taking care of you because no one will.

You didn’t actually propose any alternative.

Yes, I did. Stated right up front. Getting the voting populace to get involved in the issue will drive alternatives and there are lots of them.

Maybe it's changing legislation so that smaller and home-based care facilities are able to flourish and aren't driven out by corporations. Maybe it's providing full-ride scholarships for those who want to specialize in elder medical care or elder law. Maybe it's providing employment visas specifically for those who have documented (and certified) elder-care nursing skills. Maybe it's providing monetary or other resources to establish community-based groups (including medical professionals) which have a mandate to oversee elder care facilities on a regular basis. Maybe it's developing a Federal standard to ensure that when neglect or other issues are discovered, there is an actual PUNISHMENT doled out to the facility owner which will have significant impact on them, instead of a slap on the wrist and business as usual (as it is now). Maybe it's building more subsidized senior day care facilities and transportation, which gives family caregivers a respite.

You're venturing into TL;DR territory. Perhaps untangle that paragraph and drop into bullet points. Or if you share with your state and federal lawmakers, then do so. You have some ideas there, but it is just one long run-on rant.

Also, getting the voting populace involved - they need a platform to do so.

Case in point. I proposed alternatives but it is interesting that you think it was TL;DR and your first comment is on a petty format issue rather than substance.

Do you work or lobby for the long-term care industry, by any chance?

LOL, no, I do not. But I have been an advocate on a range of policy issues for decades, including eldercare, so I speak from experience when I say no elected, appointed, or their staffs are going to take you seriously if you expect them to do the digging for the nuggets of knowledge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, but I know my kids will help me even to the point of moving in with me if needed. I know this because they have told me.

Also I live in a community where everyone helps everyone else in so many ways. Currently it's me helping others but I know that one day it might be me who needs help.

Pray tell, where do you live? Ready to move

I live in a great 55+ condo and villa community in FL, it's a great life. I am in my 60s but I'm totally enjoying making friends with and spending time with all the older people here and enjoying all the great activities as well as volunteering with kids in the nearby community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How are you going to limit length of your life? Suicide is illegal, unacceptable in most religions and traumatic for loved ones.

I don’t think it’s traumatic in certain situations, and how is it “illegal”? And I am not religious.
My fear is to be clinging to life too much. I recently witnessed a death (well I wasn’t there but I followed it) where the person was a burden to everyone (I could see it as a neutral observer) and had terrible quality of life but just wouldn’t let go

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes. I think some people on here assume they will stay their lovely selves in old age and the adult children will be thrilled to help.They also assume their adult children won't have any of their own all-consuming life stressors or their own illness. It all happens in far too many cases.

I have seen what angry/combative/paranoid dementia looks like with my mother and I give my children permission to drop me off at Memory care and not look back. Nobody should have to deal with abuse. My dad did not become abusive but declined into not being able to do ANYTHING without assistance and he was miserable and suffering. I really want to track cognition and fly off to a country that allows assisted suicide before I am too far gone to consent, but in the meantime i am eating lots of greens, getting magnesium, managing mental health, learning new things, and doing all the things in the hope I can some how prevent this horrible fate.

I hear you! I just had a parent pass a year ago who was extremely difficult and clueless about it; I have another less difficult one but also considering themself more independent than they really are.
I am afraid though that I won’t be able to make good judgement when my time comes! The will to live is no joke

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bottle of sleeping pills or anti-anxiety meds, bottle of tequila, warm bath. That’s my plan.
People in my family live to 100 and don’t really get mean (maybe a little rude) but I know my kids and they are not programmed to help.

I don’t know how old your kids are, but people do change, and do step up
I have seen it first hand
Maybe not a good idea to live to 100 but I wouldn’t rule out your kids helping you

[Anonymous]

My greatest fear is to lose sanity and not be able to decide that I am now a burden and should go.
I have seen people cling to life in the worst circumstances. My neighbor is a caregiver and she said her charge would spit out the water instead of drinking; then would stop doing that and drink it if the caregiver told her she would die if she didn’t drink. Note that this person is immobile and has Alzheimer’s. She still wants to live!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. After seeing my mom’s decline over the years and how much help she needed. And then having to just sit and watch after the last incident as she deteriorated until she died. It’s awful.

+1 experiencing this with my mom and MIL. I just said to DH the other day how scary it is, and what would happen if one of us survived long after the other. We have two kids, but I don't want to be a burden to them. We both have siblings who are single and retired so they help out our moms a lot. But, I don't think my kids will be retired by the time I need help; ditto for DH.

I think we will have to pay a caregiver, however, we would still need someone to make sure that the caregiver is doing their job. So, unfortunately, our kids will have to bear some of that burden.

At the least, we made sure to not be a financial burden to them by saving as much as we can for retirement.

What about your single siblings?