School punishment

[Anonymous]

I've read this whole thread over my lunch break and as an RJ trainer and 15+ year ES teacher and duty vet, here's what I think:

I sincerely doubt your DC was punished for talking at lunch. If your school has a silent lunch policy I'm sure your kid would've reported it a long time ago. They were almost certainly talking during a portion of lunch where the expectation is to be quiet.

If they're receiving a consequence, I think it's safe to assume they were warned and continued the behavior. A lunch "alone" where they are with an adult and talking through the expectations of lunch is a fair and restorative consequence.

I'd be concerned if my child was still sobbing over a consequence the next day. Do they handle all adverse situations this way? Are they feeding off your anger at the consequence?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've read this whole thread over my lunch break and as an RJ trainer and 15+ year ES teacher and duty vet, here's what I think:

I sincerely doubt your DC was punished for talking at lunch. If your school has a silent lunch policy I'm sure your kid would've reported it a long time ago. They were almost certainly talking during a portion of lunch where the expectation is to be quiet.

If they're receiving a consequence, I think it's safe to assume they were warned and continued the behavior. A lunch "alone" where they are with an adult and talking through the expectations of lunch is a fair and restorative consequence.

I'd be concerned if my child was still sobbing over a consequence the next day. Do they handle all adverse situations this way? Are they feeding off your anger at the consequence?

Also, as a fellow teacher, this is straight BS. Lunch is a time to eat and socialize. We expect students to be quiet in class AND at lunch?!? So the only time they can talk freely is during a 20 minute recess? The child may have talked during a time they were not supposed to but deal with it in the moment and move on. To single a child out and eat alone is crazy. Please let me know what teacher is available to sit with a child one on one and talk about darn policies during lunch with that child? Not happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read this whole thread over my lunch break and as an RJ trainer and 15+ year ES teacher and duty vet, here's what I think:

I sincerely doubt your DC was punished for talking at lunch. If your school has a silent lunch policy I'm sure your kid would've reported it a long time ago. They were almost certainly talking during a portion of lunch where the expectation is to be quiet.

If they're receiving a consequence, I think it's safe to assume they were warned and continued the behavior. A lunch "alone" where they are with an adult and talking through the expectations of lunch is a fair and restorative consequence.

I'd be concerned if my child was still sobbing over a consequence the next day. Do they handle all adverse situations this way? Are they feeding off your anger at the consequence?

Also, as a fellow teacher, this is straight BS. Lunch is a time to eat and socialize. We expect students to be quiet in class AND at lunch?!? So the only time they can talk freely is during a 20 minute recess? The child may have talked during a time they were not supposed to but deal with it in the moment and move on. To single a child out and eat alone is crazy. Please let me know what teacher is available to sit with a child one on one and talk about darn policies during lunch with that child? Not happening.

The teacher who decided that this would be the kids consequence? That's who I would make responsible for follow up. I agree that lunch should be a social time, but there's usally a few minutes at the beginning and/or end where the expectation is to be quiet. If a student is not meeting expectations after being given reminders, they should get a consequence. This seems like a teacher giving themselves more work, when having the kid write down lunchtime expectations would be much easier to facilitate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kid can deal with it. I bet they have to sit at a table with other kids who also got in trouble for some small thing. Let your kid be embarrassed and that will remind them they don't want it to happen again. This is not a big deal.

Requesting a meeting with the principal is ridiculous. If my kid came home and told me this I'd shrug and say "Okay, so you'll remember in the future when you're told to be quiet, to actually BE quiet. It's one day - you can put up with anything for just a day." And I wouldn't give it another thought.

Absolutely not ridiculous. Not letting a second grader blow off some steam during lunch or recess could have far reaching consequences. It is extremely important that they get their bodies moving and let their little brains off the hook for 15-30 min. Otherwise, not much learning occurs during actual instruction time.

Punishing him by isolating him for something like this is so overly dramatic and totally inappropriate.

No, it IS ridiculous. I guarantee you the only way the kids are not allowed to talk for the ENTIRE lunch period is if they're screaming. Most likely they were told to be quiet to hear an announcement being made like, "The soccer field is muddy - stay off and play elsewhere" or "The recycling bins have been moved to this wall." And the kid isn't isolated - you're talking like he's been sent to the hole for a month. He's sitting at a different table for a half hour. This is no big deal.

You don't know how long they've been asked to be quiet, do you? You're just giving teachers the benefit of the doubt. Why not do the same for a 7 year old. Even if he WAS talking when he was told DURING LUNCH not to talk, big deal. It's lunch. They can announce whatever they have to announce during class time. Lunch is to rest, and talk and blow of a little steam. So it IS a big deal in my book.

I've worked in schools, and done lunch duty. I know how the cafeterias of elementary schools work. And if they're being told to be quiet for "the rest of lunch" it means they weren't talking before, but yelling/screaming. So they already blew off that steam you claim is so important. Why on earth would the classroom teacher announce anything about the flow of the cafeteria? Likely the teacher doesn't even know. You are wrong.

I've done the same. When the noise levels reached ridiculous they were told to zip it for the rest of lunch. Kids who didn't sat with me for whatever time remained that day. Teacher approved. Sometimes (depending on the kid) I would bring them over before they got out of hand. They could still talk to nearby friends.

I think carrying it over to the next day is over the top. Mind you, we did sometimes have kids removed from the lunch room if they wouldn't listen. That was extreme cases though. IE: The kid who decided to walk across the tables.

Op I think it's fine that he does his consequence this time. He'll be ok.

[Anonymous]

I would follow early PP’s advice to consult the handbook or officially find out if this was an appropriate punishment according to school rules. Be completely calm and unflappable. Don’t get into your child’s pov. Demand a clear answer. This will give you helpful info and also let the teacher know this child has someone advocating for them who isn’t going to back down.

My sense is that oftentimes teachers literally cannot control the truly troublesome kids and double down on these “example setting” scenarios with more compliant kids.

[Anonymous]

I would let it go this time, explain he’s not in trouble at home but he does have to accept the consequences at school, even if the consequences are unfair. I’d probably also go into the fact that adults aren’t always right or fair but sometimes, it’s not worth it to fight what is ultimately a minor punishment that everyone will forget about within a few days.

[Anonymous]

This thread should be put into the comedy section. Is there a comedy section?

My neighbor is a teacher and she talks about all the ridiculous and over the top emails she gets from parents over fairly small things. "There is no way my dear child did anything slightly out of line and any consequence is inappropriate." The kid will survive eating lunch along for one 30 min period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread should be put into the comedy section. Is there a comedy section?

My neighbor is a teacher and she talks about all the ridiculous and over the top emails she gets from parents over fairly small things. "There is no way my dear child did anything slightly out of line and any consequence is inappropriate." The kid will survive eating lunch along for one 30 min period.

I agree! And yes, there is a comedy section. It’s here: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/forums/list.page

[Anonymous]

OP here. For those that thinks this is hilarious... I never said I was going to intervene, but I stand by my opinion that this was too harsh of a punishment. I do agree she should be reprimanded, but I think this was too much.

I do not know who gave her this punishment, but it wasn't her teacher. Her teacher wasn't even at lunch.

I do NOT think my child is perfect and I do want her disciplined, but considering the issues this school has, a harsh punishment for one of their generally well behaved kids is so narrow minded. There's literal violence that gets punished less in that school and I got talked down to by the principal for asking why there's little to no consequence when my child got whacked with a chair last year but whatever I guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. For those that thinks this is hilarious... I never said I was going to intervene, but I stand by my opinion that this was too harsh of a punishment. I do agree she should be reprimanded, but I think this was too much.

I do not know who gave her this punishment, but it wasn't her teacher. Her teacher wasn't even at lunch.

I do NOT think my child is perfect and I do want her disciplined, but considering the issues this school has, a harsh punishment for one of their generally well behaved kids is so narrow minded. There's literal violence that gets punished less in that school and I got talked down to by the principal for asking why there's little to no consequence when my child got whacked with a chair last year but whatever I guess.

Of course you stand by your opinion. So, if the lunch lady said five times "we need two minutes of quiet to explain X" and after attempting that says "Those who continue talking will have to have a lunch period alone..." Children continue talking. Lunch lady says, Child 1, 2 and 3, I'm sorry but you will be having lunch alone tomorrow."

You're right. That's way too much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would follow early PP’s advice to consult the handbook or officially find out if this was an appropriate punishment according to school rules. Be completely calm and unflappable. Don’t get into your child’s pov. Demand a clear answer. This will give you helpful info and also let the teacher know this child has someone advocating for them who isn’t going to back down.

My sense is that oftentimes teachers literally cannot control the truly troublesome kids and double down on these “example setting” scenarios with more compliant kids.

Op here. This is our school exactly, and not even with just my kid. They send the chair thrower to the office and the kid comes back with kinetic sand. I volunteer there and see yelling and punishing over the dumbest of things.

[Anonymous]

How exactly is this a “restorative” consequence? Genuinely curious

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would follow early PP’s advice to consult the handbook or officially find out if this was an appropriate punishment according to school rules. Be completely calm and unflappable. Don’t get into your child’s pov. Demand a clear answer. This will give you helpful info and also let the teacher know this child has someone advocating for them who isn’t going to back down.

My sense is that oftentimes teachers literally cannot control the truly troublesome kids and double down on these “example setting” scenarios with more compliant kids.

Op here. This is our school exactly, and not even with just my kid. They send the chair thrower to the office and the kid comes back with kinetic sand. I volunteer there and see yelling and punishing over the dumbest of things.

NP here- this is the aspect of your post that is making you sound ridiculous. You believe your kid is “good” and should be treated differently. You’ve written that multiple times- that this isn’t appropriate for your “good” kid. Let me tell you- “good kids” get away with a lot. My oldest has ADHD and is super hyper. It’s under control now and they are a star student but in preschool DC was constantly in trouble for all sorts of things that were mildly disruptive but within the range of normal (primarily related to sitting or staying in one place). Once it was decided DC was a problem they were never again given the benefit of the doubt. I have another typical child who would do the same things and never got in trouble for them. You have no idea what you are talking about.

All that said I do think this punishment is inappropriate for *all* students. I’ve never heard of this happening at any of my kids schools. There are children who are not allowed to sit together at lunch or have assigned seats but they are always with other kids. I honestly don’t know if I’d say something, it’s on the border of something that I think is not ideal but not really that bad. I am confident you are making this all worse with your emphasis on how your kid is so good and not like those other bad kids for whom this is appropriate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How exactly is this a “restorative” consequence? Genuinely curious

Falls under loss of privilege. If a student is unable to meet the expectations of lunch time with the group, they lose that privilege until they can show they are able to meet expectations.
That said, I would hope that while the student is eating lunch alone, they are reviewing the expectations with an adult and are given an opportunity to demonstrate that they can meet the expectation. If they just eat lunch alone one day (not today bc mom kept the kid home), and don't have the restorative conversation, then it wouldn't be a restorative consequuence.

[Anonymous]

Um…15 year veteran HS teacher here and I think this is truly not ok. Elementary kids can’t talk at lunch? A kid forgets and is shamed? Come on. How can anyone think this is ok??