Cornell Engineering/ CS - Cut Throat?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC was accepted to Cornell CS last year. We went to the admitted students day. What an absolute miserable experience. It was by far the worse admitted students day we went to. For being an Ivy, Cornell was not impressive at all.

We started with an open house with the CS/Engineering dept. And by open house, I mean a few students standing by some tables. No tour of the buildings/dept, no chairman of the CS dept speech selling you on how great the program is, etc. The CS student we could find said intro classes could be as large as 600 students. Also said very few students get internships after freshman year. Compare that to other top CS programs.

We went next to a general discussion about life Cornell put on by admissions. It was a student panel discussion. After that we had a walking tour of the campus. It was an assigned time slot and the check in point was overrun with people also trying to checkin. We waited 30 mins to just checkin. The tour guide was awful. She talked while standing on the sidewalks in front of building. This, the group could only be about 2 people wide. No one could hear. Compare to other schools that either have the student guides microphones to be heard or only talked at gathering points where the whole group could gather around. Several people dropped out of the tour. We at a late lunch/early dinner at the dining hall and headed home.

Based on our experience with the students, the culture seemed very cut throat. Students were studying early Saturday morning and throughout the day - more students studying than we noticed on other campuses.

I’m glad we did the visit as it really helped solidify DCs decision to go elsewhere. DC doesn’t wonder what he was missing out on.

The audio quality of a campus tour affected his decision? Yeah - probably not a good fit for him. None of the negative aspects of his admitted students day translate to negative experiences as a student.

And studying on a Saturday doesn't make a school "cutthroat".

I’m the PP you’re quoting. Yep - the audio affected his decision. Folks on the tour told the guide they couldn’t hear. Guide shrugged her shoulders and kept going. Guess what happened next - parents and kids all jockeyed to get to the front. Sure - we could have too. But for an Ivy and $80K+ a year, I expected a lot more polish. Every other schools admitted students day was about selling you on the school and program and getting you to say yes to them. Every other school blew away Cornell’s admitted students day. Cornell could not have cared less about selling us. It was a half baked attempt. If they couldn’t put forth the effort at an admitted students day - the kids they want to wine/dine - what’s to say what it’s like when you are there. First impressions count. When you go to these admitted students days it’s the little things you notice and ask questions about - like are the kids going to football games on a Saturday or is there vomit all over the quad from partying the night before or are the kids already in the library at 9am. Noticing all this stuff gives you clues about a school.

DC ended up at T10 CS program at a large state school. The honors program director sent a hand written note hoping he accepted. Knew his name and his background from his application when we showed up at admitted students day. DC’s had a great experience there. Has a summer internship lined up. Has been wined/dined by Jane Street a couple of times already. Finds classes challenging but not too hard. Knows he has help. CS dept assigned a mentor (junior) to be a big brother. Still has time for some social activities. All for $30k less per year than Cornell. I really wanted to like Cornell because it’s closer to home, but it just couldn’t compare.

Heck - maybe it was just our experience, there’s a lid for every pot. Cornell just didn’t fit our pot.

I'm with you---we did not get a good feeling when we visited (not admitted students day). And it was so many things that just seemed like they don't care, mostly because they think they dont need to care. To me that translates into them not caring much once your kid is there. I want (and my kids want) to attend somewhere that cares about them as a person and genuinely wants them to succeed and will help put paths into place to assist with that. Profs that know their name, profs that want to actually teach and help them find their specific path. Tours do tell a lot about a school, especially admitted students day---those should be big time selling (unless it's ED admitted students day--those might be a bit more laid back). If a school can't put on a good admitted student day event, then I wonder what real life there is like, because most T100 schools put on amazing admitted student days

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take a look at the UPenn CS program.

Penn cs is also full of gunners and can get just as suicidal

So what are the good places for super top tier students who love learning but are are also kind kids and want to be happy

Yes, so if that's the case then which of the top 10-20 is more collaborative/supportive rather and isn't 'cut throat'? Only Brown?

Top students don’t need the prestige school. No one wants to hear that, but the Pp whose niece is at FAANG is working for and alongside people who didn’t suffer for four years.

Yup--and people who actually were taught material in class, not via YouTube at 2am.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC was accepted to Cornell CS last year. We went to the admitted students day. What an absolute miserable experience. It was by far the worse admitted students day we went to. For being an Ivy, Cornell was not impressive at all.

We started with an open house with the CS/Engineering dept. And by open house, I mean a few students standing by some tables. No tour of the buildings/dept, no chairman of the CS dept speech selling you on how great the program is, etc. The CS student we could find said intro classes could be as large as 600 students. Also said very few students get internships after freshman year. Compare that to other top CS programs.

We went next to a general discussion about life Cornell put on by admissions. It was a student panel discussion. After that we had a walking tour of the campus. It was an assigned time slot and the check in point was overrun with people also trying to checkin. We waited 30 mins to just checkin. The tour guide was awful. She talked while standing on the sidewalks in front of building. This, the group could only be about 2 people wide. No one could hear. Compare to other schools that either have the student guides microphones to be heard or only talked at gathering points where the whole group could gather around. Several people dropped out of the tour. We at a late lunch/early dinner at the dining hall and headed home.

Based on our experience with the students, the culture seemed very cut throat. Students were studying early Saturday morning and throughout the day - more students studying than we noticed on other campuses.

I’m glad we did the visit as it really helped solidify DCs decision to go elsewhere. DC doesn’t wonder what he was missing out on.

The audio quality of a campus tour affected his decision? Yeah - probably not a good fit for him. None of the negative aspects of his admitted students day translate to negative experiences as a student.

And studying on a Saturday doesn't make a school "cutthroat".

And typically most freshman do not get internships. Not a Cornell thing...its just a hiring thing. My kid continued her HS internship freshman summer.

[Anonymous]

Colleague went there. He is very bright and very self-motivated. Not sure what OP means by “cut throat”, but he said it is very rigorous, very competitive for good grades, and a total pressure cooker. Someone who did well at TJ would likely adapt quickly.

[Anonymous]

I have the kid who is happy to be in the very academic environment. It is not suffering to her to be busy with problem sets. She and many others take extra credits they do not need. She chose a magnet high school too. I have never heard anything that sounded cut through about her experience. Just intense learning with other kids who mostly enjoy the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have the kid who is happy to be in the very academic environment. It is not suffering to her to be busy with problem sets. She and many others take extra credits they do not need. She chose a magnet high school too. I have never heard anything that sounded cut through about her experience. Just intense learning with other kids who mostly enjoy the same.

Schools can have a very academic environment without studying 24/7 and competing for project teams. I’m PP who explained our experience at Cornell’s admitted students day. Kids need to balance, just like we do. Participating in club sports or a hike or volunteer activities are important too. DCs professors have a participated in laser tag or frisbee golf activities with the students. Students go to Thanksgiving dinner at the program directors home if they do not travel. And yes - 75% of the programs students have paid internships between freshman and sophomore year. I learned about these things from students at the admitted students day there. I have the cell phone number to the Parents Assoc director in case my OOS student has an after hours emergency. She gave it out in a presentation. People have had to use it but she said no one has ever abused it. Oh and Cornell visited this program to see if they could replicate it at Cornell. They said they couldn’t for money reasons - class sizes too small.


Now compare to our experience at Cornell. Which is more welcoming and inviting? Where would you like to attend? Remember they are a T10 CS school, so academically rigorous as well. My DC is up to 4am completing coding assignments, but he also gets breaks. Everyone has to find the right fit, but Cornell is living off its reputation IMO.

[Anonymous]

although some pooh pooh Cornell as the bottom of the ivy (blah blah ranked outside of the T15), the CS program rivals the top schools save CMU and MIT

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have the kid who is happy to be in the very academic environment. It is not suffering to her to be busy with problem sets. She and many others take extra credits they do not need. She chose a magnet high school too. I have never heard anything that sounded cut through about her experience. Just intense learning with other kids who mostly enjoy the same.

Schools can have a very academic environment without studying 24/7 and competing for project teams. I’m PP who explained our experience at Cornell’s admitted students day. Kids need to balance, just like we do. Participating in club sports or a hike or volunteer activities are important too. DCs professors have a participated in laser tag or frisbee golf activities with the students. Students go to Thanksgiving dinner at the program directors home if they do not travel. And yes - 75% of the programs students have paid internships between freshman and sophomore year. I learned about these things from students at the admitted students day there. I have the cell phone number to the Parents Assoc director in case my OOS student has an after hours emergency. She gave it out in a presentation. People have had to use it but she said no one has ever abused it. Oh and Cornell visited this program to see if they could replicate it at Cornell. They said they couldn’t for money reasons - class sizes too small.


Now compare to our experience at Cornell. Which is more welcoming and inviting? Where would you like to attend? Remember they are a T10 CS school, so academically rigorous as well. My DC is up to 4am completing coding assignments, but he also gets breaks. Everyone has to find the right fit, but Cornell is living off its reputation IMO.

Some kids (and their parents) need more care than others. Cornell isn’t a good fit for those kids. It’s great for independent, self-motivated kids who are comfortable seeking out their own path.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC was accepted to Cornell CS last year. We went to the admitted students day. What an absolute miserable experience. It was by far the worse admitted students day we went to. For being an Ivy, Cornell was not impressive at all.

We started with an open house with the CS/Engineering dept. And by open house, I mean a few students standing by some tables. No tour of the buildings/dept, no chairman of the CS dept speech selling you on how great the program is, etc. The CS student we could find said intro classes could be as large as 600 students. Also said very few students get internships after freshman year. Compare that to other top CS programs.

We went next to a general discussion about life Cornell put on by admissions. It was a student panel discussion. After that we had a walking tour of the campus. It was an assigned time slot and the check in point was overrun with people also trying to checkin. We waited 30 mins to just checkin. The tour guide was awful. She talked while standing on the sidewalks in front of building. This, the group could only be about 2 people wide. No one could hear. Compare to other schools that either have the student guides microphones to be heard or only talked at gathering points where the whole group could gather around. Several people dropped out of the tour. We at a late lunch/early dinner at the dining hall and headed home.

Based on our experience with the students, the culture seemed very cut throat. Students were studying early Saturday morning and throughout the day - more students studying than we noticed on other campuses.

I’m glad we did the visit as it really helped solidify DCs decision to go elsewhere. DC doesn’t wonder what he was missing out on.

The audio quality of a campus tour affected his decision? Yeah - probably not a good fit for him. None of the negative aspects of his admitted students day translate to negative experiences as a student.

And studying on a Saturday doesn't make a school "cutthroat".

Negatives of a "not quality tour" for admitted students day would make a huge difference for my kid. We toured Cornell Summer of 2021. No organized tours available (yeah it's covid, but everywhere else we went in NY/MA were doing tours with masks---all were taking you into buildings (maybe not dorms, but into bldgs) and giving small organized tours. Cornell told you to stop by the visitor center and find a map---2 students at a table handed us a map and returned to their computers immediately. No desire to give anyone a tour or answer any questions.

For me, admitted students day (and any tour) should be to SELL the school to the students. Cornell doesn't really care to do this. To me, that indicates that it will be a "sink or swim" mentality once you matriculate and there will not be much assistance or guidance. IMO, there are many other better choices that for my kids (and most kids). I want my kid to be somewhere that gives a shit about them and their college career and wants to help make it the best it can be. If they can't even give a decent tour, then it says (to me) they don't really care and are so full of themselves that they don't think they need to care, that the name will carry it all for them. So we moved on and didn't even bother applying.

You went to an admitted day in the summer?

It’s definitely not a great fit for kids who need hand holding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC was accepted to Cornell CS last year. We went to the admitted students day. What an absolute miserable experience. It was by far the worse admitted students day we went to. For being an Ivy, Cornell was not impressive at all.

We started with an open house with the CS/Engineering dept. And by open house, I mean a few students standing by some tables. No tour of the buildings/dept, no chairman of the CS dept speech selling you on how great the program is, etc. The CS student we could find said intro classes could be as large as 600 students. Also said very few students get internships after freshman year. Compare that to other top CS programs.

We went next to a general discussion about life Cornell put on by admissions. It was a student panel discussion. After that we had a walking tour of the campus. It was an assigned time slot and the check in point was overrun with people also trying to checkin. We waited 30 mins to just checkin. The tour guide was awful. She talked while standing on the sidewalks in front of building. This, the group could only be about 2 people wide. No one could hear. Compare to other schools that either have the student guides microphones to be heard or only talked at gathering points where the whole group could gather around. Several people dropped out of the tour. We at a late lunch/early dinner at the dining hall and headed home.

Based on our experience with the students, the culture seemed very cut throat. Students were studying early Saturday morning and throughout the day - more students studying than we noticed on other campuses.

I’m glad we did the visit as it really helped solidify DCs decision to go elsewhere. DC doesn’t wonder what he was missing out on.

The audio quality of a campus tour affected his decision? Yeah - probably not a good fit for him. None of the negative aspects of his admitted students day translate to negative experiences as a student.

And studying on a Saturday doesn't make a school "cutthroat".

Negatives of a "not quality tour" for admitted students day would make a huge difference for my kid. We toured Cornell Summer of 2021. No organized tours available (yeah it's covid, but everywhere else we went in NY/MA were doing tours with masks---all were taking you into buildings (maybe not dorms, but into bldgs) and giving small organized tours. Cornell told you to stop by the visitor center and find a map---2 students at a table handed us a map and returned to their computers immediately. No desire to give anyone a tour or answer any questions.

For me, admitted students day (and any tour) should be to SELL the school to the students. Cornell doesn't really care to do this. To me, that indicates that it will be a "sink or swim" mentality once you matriculate and there will not be much assistance or guidance. IMO, there are many other better choices that for my kids (and most kids). I want my kid to be somewhere that gives a shit about them and their college career and wants to help make it the best it can be. If they can't even give a decent tour, then it says (to me) they don't really care and are so full of themselves that they don't think they need to care, that the name will carry it all for them. So we moved on and didn't even bother applying.

It’s funny, but I graduated decades ago and yea, even back then it was “sink or swim”. In hindsight I’d have been better off at a smaller school where they paid more attention to undergraduates. My mother died my freshman year and I was really on my own to navigate that in conjunction with school. Not one person in the administration reached out to me. I had to speak to my professors on my own, negotiate my time away and making up work and so on. Most were okay, one was great (he had lost his own dad the year prior and was sympathetic) and one was awful. In hindsight, that guy was probably on the spectrum and just not capable of dealing with a blubbering 18yo girl who had just lost her mother. But his first question was did I want the homework assignments I missed and I bluntly told him no.

So pp, a long-winded way of saying I think your assessment was correct and if you and your child wanted a different environment, you were wise to move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC was accepted to Cornell CS last year. We went to the admitted students day. What an absolute miserable experience. It was by far the worse admitted students day we went to. For being an Ivy, Cornell was not impressive at all.

We started with an open house with the CS/Engineering dept. And by open house, I mean a few students standing by some tables. No tour of the buildings/dept, no chairman of the CS dept speech selling you on how great the program is, etc. The CS student we could find said intro classes could be as large as 600 students. Also said very few students get internships after freshman year. Compare that to other top CS programs.

We went next to a general discussion about life Cornell put on by admissions. It was a student panel discussion. After that we had a walking tour of the campus. It was an assigned time slot and the check in point was overrun with people also trying to checkin. We waited 30 mins to just checkin. The tour guide was awful. She talked while standing on the sidewalks in front of building. This, the group could only be about 2 people wide. No one could hear. Compare to other schools that either have the student guides microphones to be heard or only talked at gathering points where the whole group could gather around. Several people dropped out of the tour. We at a late lunch/early dinner at the dining hall and headed home.

Based on our experience with the students, the culture seemed very cut throat. Students were studying early Saturday morning and throughout the day - more students studying than we noticed on other campuses.

I’m glad we did the visit as it really helped solidify DCs decision to go elsewhere. DC doesn’t wonder what he was missing out on.

The audio quality of a campus tour affected his decision? Yeah - probably not a good fit for him. None of the negative aspects of his admitted students day translate to negative experiences as a student.

And studying on a Saturday doesn't make a school "cutthroat".

I’m the PP you’re quoting. Yep - the audio affected his decision. Folks on the tour told the guide they couldn’t hear. Guide shrugged her shoulders and kept going. Guess what happened next - parents and kids all jockeyed to get to the front. Sure - we could have too. But for an Ivy and $80K+ a year, I expected a lot more polish. Every other schools admitted students day was about selling you on the school and program and getting you to say yes to them. Every other school blew away Cornell’s admitted students day. Cornell could not have cared less about selling us. It was a half baked attempt. If they couldn’t put forth the effort at an admitted students day - the kids they want to wine/dine - what’s to say what it’s like when you are there. First impressions count. When you go to these admitted students days it’s the little things you notice and ask questions about - like are the kids going to football games on a Saturday or is there vomit all over the quad from partying the night before or are the kids already in the library at 9am. Noticing all this stuff gives you clues about a school.

DC ended up at T10 CS program at a large state school. The honors program director sent a hand written note hoping he accepted. Knew his name and his background from his application when we showed up at admitted students day. DC’s had a great experience there. Has a summer internship lined up. Has been wined/dined by Jane Street a couple of times already. Finds classes challenging but not too hard. Knows he has help. CS dept assigned a mentor (junior) to be a big brother. Still has time for some social activities. All for $30k less per year than Cornell. I really wanted to like Cornell because it’s closer to home, but it just couldn’t compare.

Heck - maybe it was just our experience, there’s a lid for every pot. Cornell just didn’t fit our pot.

Sounds like he found a better fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have the kid who is happy to be in the very academic environment. It is not suffering to her to be busy with problem sets. She and many others take extra credits they do not need. She chose a magnet high school too. I have never heard anything that sounded cut through about her experience. Just intense learning with other kids who mostly enjoy the same.

Schools can have a very academic environment without studying 24/7 and competing for project teams. I’m PP who explained our experience at Cornell’s admitted students day. Kids need to balance, just like we do. Participating in club sports or a hike or volunteer activities are important too. DCs professors have a participated in laser tag or frisbee golf activities with the students. Students go to Thanksgiving dinner at the program directors home if they do not travel. And yes - 75% of the programs students have paid internships between freshman and sophomore year. I learned about these things from students at the admitted students day there. I have the cell phone number to the Parents Assoc director in case my OOS student has an after hours emergency. She gave it out in a presentation. People have had to use it but she said no one has ever abused it. Oh and Cornell visited this program to see if they could replicate it at Cornell. They said they couldn’t for money reasons - class sizes too small.


Now compare to our experience at Cornell. Which is more welcoming and inviting? Where would you like to attend? Remember they are a T10 CS school, so academically rigorous as well. My DC is up to 4am completing coding assignments, but he also gets breaks. Everyone has to find the right fit, but Cornell is living off its reputation IMO.

My Cornell CS student is involved in a music club,a project team, takes PE for fun nearly every semester, just went to a Chili cook-off this week, loves to walk in the arboretum, sends pictures of the sunset many days Hope this helps give you a better impression. She is also taking 18 credits and working as a TA so busy. She also had a paid internship after freshman year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take a look at the UPenn CS program.

Penn cs is also full of gunners and can get just as suicidal

So what are the good places for super top tier students who love learning but are are also kind kids and want to be happy

Yes, so if that's the case then which of the top 10-20 is more collaborative/supportive rather and isn't 'cut throat'? Only Brown?

For engineering?

Rice

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have the kid who is happy to be in the very academic environment. It is not suffering to her to be busy with problem sets. She and many others take extra credits they do not need. She chose a magnet high school too. I have never heard anything that sounded cut through about her experience. Just intense learning with other kids who mostly enjoy the same.

Schools can have a very academic environment without studying 24/7 and competing for project teams. I’m PP who explained our experience at Cornell’s admitted students day. Kids need to balance, just like we do. Participating in club sports or a hike or volunteer activities are important too. DCs professors have a participated in laser tag or frisbee golf activities with the students. Students go to Thanksgiving dinner at the program directors home if they do not travel. And yes - 75% of the programs students have paid internships between freshman and sophomore year. I learned about these things from students at the admitted students day there. I have the cell phone number to the Parents Assoc director in case my OOS student has an after hours emergency. She gave it out in a presentation. People have had to use it but she said no one has ever abused it. Oh and Cornell visited this program to see if they could replicate it at Cornell. They said they couldn’t for money reasons - class sizes too small.


Now compare to our experience at Cornell. Which is more welcoming and inviting? Where would you like to attend? Remember they are a T10 CS school, so academically rigorous as well. My DC is up to 4am completing coding assignments, but he also gets breaks. Everyone has to find the right fit, but Cornell is living off its reputation IMO.

My Cornell CS student is involved in a music club,a project team, takes PE for fun nearly every semester, just went to a Chili cook-off this week, loves to walk in the arboretum, sends pictures of the sunset many days Hope this helps give you a better impression. She is also taking 18 credits and working as a TA so busy. She also had a paid internship after freshman year.

There are a billion options for activities outside of class. Really something for everyone. But you do need to be proactive and seek them out. Or some even form their own. Most people are talented in multiple areas - not just academics.

[Anonymous]

I graduated from Cornell almost 2 decades ago- but I recall my parents, who were both alum, being so disgusted with poor quality of the tour that they wrote to complain. I loved everything about cornell and didn't find it cutthroat ( but wasn't in engineering) but just think tours aren't always great indicators. I'm glad I didn't rely on the tour to make my opinion and certainly understand why others would if they didn't have personal experience to counter it.