Cornell Engineering/ CS - Cut Throat?

[Anonymous]

DD went from Blair SMAC to Cornell CS. She feels she was more prepared than many other incoming students. She still works hard but she is a student who seeks out challenge so it is a good match for her. If she were less prepared and less academically focused, I could imagine it would not be a good match.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a friend who is a Cornell engineering grad and she really hated it there. She appreciated the value in sticking it out and the value on the backend now that she's working...but she said the culture was not good and wouldn't do it again or recommend it. You can get the same education and pedigree with better culture elsewhere.

How old is your friend? It does matter how recently she graduated.

Probably graduated 6-8 years ago

[Anonymous]

My kid is in engineering (not comp sci) at Cornell. From what she’s told me, engineering is tough across the board, lots of work and very high expectations. She’s not found it to be particularly cut throat, but all the students are very bright and work hard. It’s definitely not the right fit for every student.

I also have to laugh a little at the advice to go the Dartmouth instead. Top schools for CS are insanely competitive. I can’t imagine many students having the luxury of picking and choosing among the top schools. None of these schools are easy admits!

[Anonymous]

DC was accepted to Cornell CS last year. We went to the admitted students day. What an absolute miserable experience. It was by far the worse admitted students day we went to. For being an Ivy, Cornell was not impressive at all.

We started with an open house with the CS/Engineering dept. And by open house, I mean a few students standing by some tables. No tour of the buildings/dept, no chairman of the CS dept speech selling you on how great the program is, etc. The CS student we could find said intro classes could be as large as 600 students. Also said very few students get internships after freshman year. Compare that to other top CS programs.

We went next to a general discussion about life Cornell put on by admissions. It was a student panel discussion. After that we had a walking tour of the campus. It was an assigned time slot and the check in point was overrun with people also trying to checkin. We waited 30 mins to just checkin. The tour guide was awful. She talked while standing on the sidewalks in front of building. This, the group could only be about 2 people wide. No one could hear. Compare to other schools that either have the student guides microphones to be heard or only talked at gathering points where the whole group could gather around. Several people dropped out of the tour. We at a late lunch/early dinner at the dining hall and headed home.

Based on our experience with the students, the culture seemed very cut throat. Students were studying early Saturday morning and throughout the day - more students studying than we noticed on other campuses.

I’m glad we did the visit as it really helped solidify DCs decision to go elsewhere. DC doesn’t wonder what he was missing out on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is a junior at Cornell Engineering, majoring in computer science. I would not call the College of Engineering cut throat. Its not like the students try to undermine each other. She has friends with whom she has formed study groups and they help each other. However, the program is intense for multiple reasons: 1) the students are top-notch so its a lot of work just to be average; 2) the workload is huge; 3) there are not enough slots on the project teams so it is competitive to get onto a project team. There is a sink or swim culture; not a lot of hand-holding. The teaching is ok, but at least in CS, classes are huge and its hard to get near a professor. Being able to teach yourself is key. While the program is intense, I think the students graduate able to perform at a high level. Might be a better experience for other majors. She had a friend that majored in material science, which is a smaller department in which they seem able to pay more attention to the undergraduates. For my daughter, it is a 4-year grind.

Why would anyone want the experience you describe? All for 80k+

For all that, I'd choose a top-notch ivy.

Stfu

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take a look at the UPenn CS program.

Penn cs is also full of gunners and can get just as suicidal

So what are the good places for super top tier students who love learning but are are also kind kids and want to be happy

Lehigh has great engineering, including CS. Classes are mostly small, professors accessible, students happy, career outcomes excellent.

[Anonymous]

I have a student at Cornell majoring in CS. Engineering is more of a grind than A&S for the same exact major. My student went to TJ and has had a much easier time with the coursework than friends who didn’t have a similar prep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is a junior at Cornell Engineering, majoring in computer science. I would not call the College of Engineering cut throat. Its not like the students try to undermine each other. She has friends with whom she has formed study groups and they help each other. However, the program is intense for multiple reasons: 1) the students are top-notch so its a lot of work just to be average; 2) the workload is huge; 3) there are not enough slots on the project teams so it is competitive to get onto a project team. There is a sink or swim culture; not a lot of hand-holding. The teaching is ok, but at least in CS, classes are huge and its hard to get near a professor. Being able to teach yourself is key. While the program is intense, I think the students graduate able to perform at a high level. Might be a better experience for other majors. She had a friend that majored in material science, which is a smaller department in which they seem able to pay more attention to the undergraduates. For my daughter, it is a 4-year grind.

Why would anyone want the experience you describe? All for 80k+

People that actually want to learn and push their academic abilities to the fullest

You know, like 1st/2nd gen immigrants who people love to deride

You honestly think people can't learn and push their academic abilities to the fullest at a school not in the T20? You think attending a T20 where the teaching is just "ok", the classes are huge and a "sink or swim culture" is the best way to learn? I'd much prefer a school ranked 40-60 (or 40-100) where the teachers teach well, classes are smaller, kids have access to the professors, kids can get into the extras (ie project teams like groups) and kids don't have to self teach themselves 95% of the material.

You’re 100% correct. The teaching quality and class sizes at most T20s is abysmal. Lots of smart kids teaching themselves for 80k/yr
The smaller universities (Lehigh, Tufts) and top LACs do a much better job. Shame how so many parents and kids delegate their college selection process to USNWR

[Anonymous]

CS is pretty much the same everywhere. My first DS attended Cornell in CS and my 2nd DS attended VA Tech, also in CS. The 2nd DS is making 2x more than the first DS. CS is unique that way. It is not like an MBA from Wharton vs. UVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC was accepted to Cornell CS last year. We went to the admitted students day. What an absolute miserable experience. It was by far the worse admitted students day we went to. For being an Ivy, Cornell was not impressive at all.

We started with an open house with the CS/Engineering dept. And by open house, I mean a few students standing by some tables. No tour of the buildings/dept, no chairman of the CS dept speech selling you on how great the program is, etc. The CS student we could find said intro classes could be as large as 600 students. Also said very few students get internships after freshman year. Compare that to other top CS programs.

We went next to a general discussion about life Cornell put on by admissions. It was a student panel discussion. After that we had a walking tour of the campus. It was an assigned time slot and the check in point was overrun with people also trying to checkin. We waited 30 mins to just checkin. The tour guide was awful. She talked while standing on the sidewalks in front of building. This, the group could only be about 2 people wide. No one could hear. Compare to other schools that either have the student guides microphones to be heard or only talked at gathering points where the whole group could gather around. Several people dropped out of the tour. We at a late lunch/early dinner at the dining hall and headed home.

Based on our experience with the students, the culture seemed very cut throat. Students were studying early Saturday morning and throughout the day - more students studying than we noticed on other campuses.

I’m glad we did the visit as it really helped solidify DCs decision to go elsewhere. DC doesn’t wonder what he was missing out on.

Where did your child go instead ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC was accepted to Cornell CS last year. We went to the admitted students day. What an absolute miserable experience. It was by far the worse admitted students day we went to. For being an Ivy, Cornell was not impressive at all.

We started with an open house with the CS/Engineering dept. And by open house, I mean a few students standing by some tables. No tour of the buildings/dept, no chairman of the CS dept speech selling you on how great the program is, etc. The CS student we could find said intro classes could be as large as 600 students. Also said very few students get internships after freshman year. Compare that to other top CS programs.

We went next to a general discussion about life Cornell put on by admissions. It was a student panel discussion. After that we had a walking tour of the campus. It was an assigned time slot and the check in point was overrun with people also trying to checkin. We waited 30 mins to just checkin. The tour guide was awful. She talked while standing on the sidewalks in front of building. This, the group could only be about 2 people wide. No one could hear. Compare to other schools that either have the student guides microphones to be heard or only talked at gathering points where the whole group could gather around. Several people dropped out of the tour. We at a late lunch/early dinner at the dining hall and headed home.

Based on our experience with the students, the culture seemed very cut throat. Students were studying early Saturday morning and throughout the day - more students studying than we noticed on other campuses.

I’m glad we did the visit as it really helped solidify DCs decision to go elsewhere. DC doesn’t wonder what he was missing out on.

Where did your child go instead ?

Cornell tends to accept more people with less FA. These people go elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC was accepted to Cornell CS last year. We went to the admitted students day. What an absolute miserable experience. It was by far the worse admitted students day we went to. For being an Ivy, Cornell was not impressive at all.

We started with an open house with the CS/Engineering dept. And by open house, I mean a few students standing by some tables. No tour of the buildings/dept, no chairman of the CS dept speech selling you on how great the program is, etc. The CS student we could find said intro classes could be as large as 600 students. Also said very few students get internships after freshman year. Compare that to other top CS programs.

We went next to a general discussion about life Cornell put on by admissions. It was a student panel discussion. After that we had a walking tour of the campus. It was an assigned time slot and the check in point was overrun with people also trying to checkin. We waited 30 mins to just checkin. The tour guide was awful. She talked while standing on the sidewalks in front of building. This, the group could only be about 2 people wide. No one could hear. Compare to other schools that either have the student guides microphones to be heard or only talked at gathering points where the whole group could gather around. Several people dropped out of the tour. We at a late lunch/early dinner at the dining hall and headed home.

Based on our experience with the students, the culture seemed very cut throat. Students were studying early Saturday morning and throughout the day - more students studying than we noticed on other campuses.

I’m glad we did the visit as it really helped solidify DCs decision to go elsewhere. DC doesn’t wonder what he was missing out on.

The audio quality of a campus tour affected his decision? Yeah - probably not a good fit for him. None of the negative aspects of his admitted students day translate to negative experiences as a student.

And studying on a Saturday doesn't make a school "cutthroat".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC was accepted to Cornell CS last year. We went to the admitted students day. What an absolute miserable experience. It was by far the worse admitted students day we went to. For being an Ivy, Cornell was not impressive at all.

We started with an open house with the CS/Engineering dept. And by open house, I mean a few students standing by some tables. No tour of the buildings/dept, no chairman of the CS dept speech selling you on how great the program is, etc. The CS student we could find said intro classes could be as large as 600 students. Also said very few students get internships after freshman year. Compare that to other top CS programs.

We went next to a general discussion about life Cornell put on by admissions. It was a student panel discussion. After that we had a walking tour of the campus. It was an assigned time slot and the check in point was overrun with people also trying to checkin. We waited 30 mins to just checkin. The tour guide was awful. She talked while standing on the sidewalks in front of building. This, the group could only be about 2 people wide. No one could hear. Compare to other schools that either have the student guides microphones to be heard or only talked at gathering points where the whole group could gather around. Several people dropped out of the tour. We at a late lunch/early dinner at the dining hall and headed home.

Based on our experience with the students, the culture seemed very cut throat. Students were studying early Saturday morning and throughout the day - more students studying than we noticed on other campuses.

I’m glad we did the visit as it really helped solidify DCs decision to go elsewhere. DC doesn’t wonder what he was missing out on.

The audio quality of a campus tour affected his decision? Yeah - probably not a good fit for him. None of the negative aspects of his admitted students day translate to negative experiences as a student.

And studying on a Saturday doesn't make a school "cutthroat".

I’m the PP you’re quoting. Yep - the audio affected his decision. Folks on the tour told the guide they couldn’t hear. Guide shrugged her shoulders and kept going. Guess what happened next - parents and kids all jockeyed to get to the front. Sure - we could have too. But for an Ivy and $80K+ a year, I expected a lot more polish. Every other schools admitted students day was about selling you on the school and program and getting you to say yes to them. Every other school blew away Cornell’s admitted students day. Cornell could not have cared less about selling us. It was a half baked attempt. If they couldn’t put forth the effort at an admitted students day - the kids they want to wine/dine - what’s to say what it’s like when you are there. First impressions count. When you go to these admitted students days it’s the little things you notice and ask questions about - like are the kids going to football games on a Saturday or is there vomit all over the quad from partying the night before or are the kids already in the library at 9am. Noticing all this stuff gives you clues about a school.

DC ended up at T10 CS program at a large state school. The honors program director sent a hand written note hoping he accepted. Knew his name and his background from his application when we showed up at admitted students day. DC’s had a great experience there. Has a summer internship lined up. Has been wined/dined by Jane Street a couple of times already. Finds classes challenging but not too hard. Knows he has help. CS dept assigned a mentor (junior) to be a big brother. Still has time for some social activities. All for $30k less per year than Cornell. I really wanted to like Cornell because it’s closer to home, but it just couldn’t compare.

Heck - maybe it was just our experience, there’s a lid for every pot. Cornell just didn’t fit our pot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take a look at the UPenn CS program.

Penn cs is also full of gunners and can get just as suicidal

So what are the good places for super top tier students who love learning but are are also kind kids and want to be happy

Yes, so if that's the case then which of the top 10-20 is more collaborative/supportive rather and isn't 'cut throat'? Only Brown?

Top students don’t need the prestige school. No one wants to hear that, but the Pp whose niece is at FAANG is working for and alongside people who didn’t suffer for four years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC was accepted to Cornell CS last year. We went to the admitted students day. What an absolute miserable experience. It was by far the worse admitted students day we went to. For being an Ivy, Cornell was not impressive at all.

We started with an open house with the CS/Engineering dept. And by open house, I mean a few students standing by some tables. No tour of the buildings/dept, no chairman of the CS dept speech selling you on how great the program is, etc. The CS student we could find said intro classes could be as large as 600 students. Also said very few students get internships after freshman year. Compare that to other top CS programs.

We went next to a general discussion about life Cornell put on by admissions. It was a student panel discussion. After that we had a walking tour of the campus. It was an assigned time slot and the check in point was overrun with people also trying to checkin. We waited 30 mins to just checkin. The tour guide was awful. She talked while standing on the sidewalks in front of building. This, the group could only be about 2 people wide. No one could hear. Compare to other schools that either have the student guides microphones to be heard or only talked at gathering points where the whole group could gather around. Several people dropped out of the tour. We at a late lunch/early dinner at the dining hall and headed home.

Based on our experience with the students, the culture seemed very cut throat. Students were studying early Saturday morning and throughout the day - more students studying than we noticed on other campuses.

I’m glad we did the visit as it really helped solidify DCs decision to go elsewhere. DC doesn’t wonder what he was missing out on.

The audio quality of a campus tour affected his decision? Yeah - probably not a good fit for him. None of the negative aspects of his admitted students day translate to negative experiences as a student.

And studying on a Saturday doesn't make a school "cutthroat".

Negatives of a "not quality tour" for admitted students day would make a huge difference for my kid. We toured Cornell Summer of 2021. No organized tours available (yeah it's covid, but everywhere else we went in NY/MA were doing tours with masks---all were taking you into buildings (maybe not dorms, but into bldgs) and giving small organized tours. Cornell told you to stop by the visitor center and find a map---2 students at a table handed us a map and returned to their computers immediately. No desire to give anyone a tour or answer any questions.

For me, admitted students day (and any tour) should be to SELL the school to the students. Cornell doesn't really care to do this. To me, that indicates that it will be a "sink or swim" mentality once you matriculate and there will not be much assistance or guidance. IMO, there are many other better choices that for my kids (and most kids). I want my kid to be somewhere that gives a shit about them and their college career and wants to help make it the best it can be. If they can't even give a decent tour, then it says (to me) they don't really care and are so full of themselves that they don't think they need to care, that the name will carry it all for them. So we moved on and didn't even bother applying.