Cornell Engineering/ CS - Cut Throat?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is a junior at Cornell Engineering, majoring in computer science. I would not call the College of Engineering cut throat. Its not like the students try to undermine each other. She has friends with whom she has formed study groups and they help each other. However, the program is intense for multiple reasons: 1) the students are top-notch so its a lot of work just to be average; 2) the workload is huge; 3) there are not enough slots on the project teams so it is competitive to get onto a project team. There is a sink or swim culture; not a lot of hand-holding. The teaching is ok, but at least in CS, classes are huge and its hard to get near a professor. Being able to teach yourself is key. While the program is intense, I think the students graduate able to perform at a high level. Might be a better experience for other majors. She had a friend that majored in material science, which is a smaller department in which they seem able to pay more attention to the undergraduates. For my daughter, it is a 4-year grind.

I went to Cornell for biology and three of my suite mates were CS majors. This is very accurate.
About the independent learning - we used to joke that we were actually going to YouTube University.
But my friends are now all at FAANG companies and making great money, so seems worth it. You do have to be able to handle pressure though and I did know some folks who cracked (dropped out entirely or dropped into easier majors)

[Anonymous]

My niece is a freshman at Cornell in engineering and is miserable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is a junior at Cornell Engineering, majoring in computer science. I would not call the College of Engineering cut throat. Its not like the students try to undermine each other. She has friends with whom she has formed study groups and they help each other. However, the program is intense for multiple reasons: 1) the students are top-notch so its a lot of work just to be average; 2) the workload is huge; 3) there are not enough slots on the project teams so it is competitive to get onto a project team. There is a sink or swim culture; not a lot of hand-holding. The teaching is ok, but at least in CS, classes are huge and its hard to get near a professor. Being able to teach yourself is key. While the program is intense, I think the students graduate able to perform at a high level. Might be a better experience for other majors. She had a friend that majored in material science, which is a smaller department in which they seem able to pay more attention to the undergraduates. For my daughter, it is a 4-year grind.

I have a daughter who is a senior in another engineering division at Cornell. Her experience and that of her friends who are senior CS majors in the Engineering school has been exactly as the above poster describes. The pluses are that her friends who were CS majors in engineering have had their pick of jobs in tech both in the summers and for post-graduation job offers. The other plus for women is that the engineering school is about 50/50 men/women. For a school that is less of a grind where one can have smaller classes, get to know one's professors, and have a better work/iife balance, I would suggest Dartmouth.

One of my colleagues graduated from there about a dozen years ago. I forget what kind of engineering he studied, but he got into some game design minor which apparently is widely available. We worked together at a video company. He's still writing AAA games.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My niece is a freshman at Cornell in engineering and is miserable.

The climate can be brutal. I remember the nets under the bridges when I was there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a friend who is a Cornell engineering grad and she really hated it there. She appreciated the value in sticking it out and the value on the backend now that she's working...but she said the culture was not good and wouldn't do it again or recommend it. You can get the same education and pedigree with better culture elsewhere.

How old is your friend? It does matter how recently she graduated.

[Anonymous]

Take a look at the UPenn CS program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Take a look at the UPenn CS program.

Penn cs is also full of gunners and can get just as suicidal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take a look at the UPenn CS program.

Penn cs is also full of gunners and can get just as suicidal

So what are the good places for super top tier students who love learning but are are also kind kids and want to be happy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take a look at the UPenn CS program.

Penn cs is also full of gunners and can get just as suicidal

So what are the good places for super top tier students who love learning but are are also kind kids and want to be happy

Friend’s kid recently graduated from W&M in CS. Very happy working at Microsoft right now. Landed it before graduation. Had a great 4 years in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take a look at the UPenn CS program.

Penn cs is also full of gunners and can get just as suicidal

So what are the good places for super top tier students who love learning but are are also kind kids and want to be happy

Yes, so if that's the case then which of the top 10-20 is more collaborative/supportive rather and isn't 'cut throat'? Only Brown?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take a look at the UPenn CS program.

Penn cs is also full of gunners and can get just as suicidal

So what are the good places for super top tier students who love learning but are are also kind kids and want to be happy

You can definitely be happy at Cornell (or anywhere) if you enjoy learning and enjoy a challenge. People who are unhappy are either unprepared, undisciplined, or not in the right major.

It’s tough but not cutthroat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is a junior at Cornell Engineering, majoring in computer science. I would not call the College of Engineering cut throat. Its not like the students try to undermine each other. She has friends with whom she has formed study groups and they help each other. However, the program is intense for multiple reasons: 1) the students are top-notch so its a lot of work just to be average; 2) the workload is huge; 3) there are not enough slots on the project teams so it is competitive to get onto a project team. There is a sink or swim culture; not a lot of hand-holding. The teaching is ok, but at least in CS, classes are huge and its hard to get near a professor. Being able to teach yourself is key. While the program is intense, I think the students graduate able to perform at a high level. Might be a better experience for other majors. She had a friend that majored in material science, which is a smaller department in which they seem able to pay more attention to the undergraduates. For my daughter, it is a 4-year grind.

Why would anyone want the experience you describe? All for 80k+

People that actually want to learn and push their academic abilities to the fullest

You know, like 1st/2nd gen immigrants who people love to deride

You honestly think people can't learn and push their academic abilities to the fullest at a school not in the T20? You think attending a T20 where the teaching is just "ok", the classes are huge and a "sink or swim culture" is the best way to learn? I'd much prefer a school ranked 40-60 (or 40-100) where the teachers teach well, classes are smaller, kids have access to the professors, kids can get into the extras (ie project teams like groups) and kids don't have to self teach themselves 95% of the material.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is a junior at Cornell Engineering, majoring in computer science. I would not call the College of Engineering cut throat. Its not like the students try to undermine each other. She has friends with whom she has formed study groups and they help each other. However, the program is intense for multiple reasons: 1) the students are top-notch so its a lot of work just to be average; 2) the workload is huge; 3) there are not enough slots on the project teams so it is competitive to get onto a project team. There is a sink or swim culture; not a lot of hand-holding. The teaching is ok, but at least in CS, classes are huge and its hard to get near a professor. Being able to teach yourself is key. While the program is intense, I think the students graduate able to perform at a high level. Might be a better experience for other majors. She had a friend that majored in material science, which is a smaller department in which they seem able to pay more attention to the undergraduates. For my daughter, it is a 4-year grind.

Why would anyone want the experience you describe? All for 80k+

+1 this is why DC chose to apply to small engineering schools. They still have weed out courses, but the rest of the experience is much, much better for learning. FIL is a professor and we are so glad DC followed his guidance on that point.

+2

Same for my kid. They focused on schools 5-10K, but with smaller classes and a more nurturing environment. Life does not have to be so cut throat/competitive. Continue on that path, as most have been doing since MS/HS and kids will burn out or worse. It doesn't have to be that way. A CS major at any T100 school (or really from any school) will have great job opportunities no matter where they attend. But the ability to do "elite projects" and actually learn thru classes/discussions/labs might just make them more qualified than someone. Either way, they will still go far no matter where they get their degree

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is a junior at Cornell Engineering, majoring in computer science. I would not call the College of Engineering cut throat. Its not like the students try to undermine each other. She has friends with whom she has formed study groups and they help each other. However, the program is intense for multiple reasons: 1) the students are top-notch so its a lot of work just to be average; 2) the workload is huge; 3) there are not enough slots on the project teams so it is competitive to get onto a project team. There is a sink or swim culture; not a lot of hand-holding. The teaching is ok, but at least in CS, classes are huge and its hard to get near a professor. Being able to teach yourself is key. While the program is intense, I think the students graduate able to perform at a high level. Might be a better experience for other majors. She had a friend that majored in material science, which is a smaller department in which they seem able to pay more attention to the undergraduates. For my daughter, it is a 4-year grind.

Why would anyone want the experience you describe? All for 80k+

People that actually want to learn and push their academic abilities to the fullest

You know, like 1st/2nd gen immigrants who people love to deride

You can do that, and much better, at a school that cares about learning, not grinding and beating out your classmates.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is a junior at Cornell Engineering, majoring in computer science. I would not call the College of Engineering cut throat. Its not like the students try to undermine each other. She has friends with whom she has formed study groups and they help each other. However, the program is intense for multiple reasons: 1) the students are top-notch so its a lot of work just to be average; 2) the workload is huge; 3) there are not enough slots on the project teams so it is competitive to get onto a project team. There is a sink or swim culture; not a lot of hand-holding. The teaching is ok, but at least in CS, classes are huge and its hard to get near a professor. Being able to teach yourself is key. While the program is intense, I think the students graduate able to perform at a high level. Might be a better experience for other majors. She had a friend that majored in material science, which is a smaller department in which they seem able to pay more attention to the undergraduates. For my daughter, it is a 4-year grind.

I went to Cornell for biology and three of my suite mates were CS majors. This is very accurate.
About the independent learning - we used to joke that we were actually going to YouTube University.
But my friends are now all at FAANG companies and making great money, so seems worth it. You do have to be able to handle pressure though and I did know some folks who cracked (dropped out entirely or dropped into easier majors)

plenty of kids go to FAANG companies from other universities, ones that actually teach their students. Also there are plenty of other awesome employers who pay exceedingly well if you don't get FAANG. With a CS degree you will be paid well no matter where you graduated.