Big state schools - lot of fun, great networks, but do you really learn there?

[Anonymous]

I did a residential college at a big state school. It was great - I definitely learned a lot and was challenged.

[Anonymous]

There’s not one answer. Sorry for stating the obvious. The big state U’s will have as many first rate students as selective liberal arts colleges, just spread out over a wider range of classes.

Intro classes are probably the weakest link. These can be balanced by small departments in some subjects, honors colleges, living-learning communities, and the departments that put a star researcher in 100 level lectures, etc.. Sometimes they’re not. There are invitations to dinner at professor’s houses, meeting seminars with visiting authors, outstanding arts performers brought in, just like at SLACs. It’s incredible though, some of the visiting performances that some of the small LACs can afford.

Feedback on writing is a reasonable question, and that’s variable too. Everything from one-on-one tutorials to seminars with writers in residence. It’s all there at the state Us, but each student is apt to have less access.

Science students at big state Us probably get less writing than at LACs; they often have a heavier load of required courses and take more per semester than LAC counter parts. What they learn is variable too. Some of the pre-health/ pharm students are highly grade focused at the expense of learning for understanding. Have seen this at top schools too.

What you get at big schools are a huge range of clubs, and a wider range of people. For some this is invigorating. For others it’s a lot of work to find what they need/want socially intellectually.

So much is dependent on the student’s personality, interests and goals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There’s not one answer. Sorry for stating the obvious. The big state U’s will have as many first rate students as selective liberal arts colleges, just spread out over a wider range of classes.

Intro classes are probably the weakest link. These can be balanced by small departments in some subjects, honors colleges, living-learning communities, and the departments that put a star researcher in 100 level lectures, etc.. Sometimes they’re not. There are invitations to dinner at professor’s houses, meeting seminars with visiting authors, outstanding arts performers brought in, just like at SLACs. It’s incredible though, some of the visiting performances that some of the small LACs can afford.

Feedback on writing is a reasonable question, and that’s variable too. Everything from one-on-one tutorials to seminars with writers in residence. It’s all there at the state Us, but each student is apt to have less access.

Science students at big state Us probably get less writing than at LACs; they often have a heavier load of required courses and take more per semester than LAC counter parts. What they learn is variable too. Some of the pre-health/ pharm students are highly grade focused at the expense of learning for understanding. Have seen this at top schools too.

What you get at big schools are a huge range of clubs, and a wider range of people. For some this is invigorating. For others it’s a lot of work to find what they need/want socially intellectually.

So much is dependent on the student’s personality, interests and goals.

Thanks. My chief concern is my kid would just cruise through and kind of hide, which is probably what I would do. It’s also probably what most of the kids do

[Anonymous]

Big state schools have endless possibilities for a student that seeks them out. However, you have to try. No one is going to hold your hand and lead you through.

[Anonymous]

If one is in an honors college at a "big state school", the opportunities are incredible.

For those who think attending an SLAC or an LAC is a superior educational experience than attending a larger school--whether public or private, you are out-of-touch with the current reality of higher education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asking genuinely. They just seem so large and impersonal. The credential may be great but is the educational experience comparable to what one might have at a top private school? I attended a midsized elite private and suspect the educational experience I had is more similar to a smaller LAC. But when you go to Michigan or Florida or Wisconsin, is anyone really cultivating your abilities? Evaluating your written work carefully? Small seminars? Or is it more like watching good Ted talks and then handing something in (and then getting an A because most of the kids are in staters producing high school level work). Interested in perspectives on this from state u grads.

Omg, I went to Michigan decades back, so I think it's only harder now and my engineering classes were many times graded on a curve. The mean was very high. And the classes with pre-meds? Cut throat doesn't even begin to describe it.

Same with University of California. I worked hard to get B’s in some classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not all classes at state universities are huge. You get to know the professors in your program, in student organizations, etc. There are many opportunities for connecting with faculty and getting individualized attention. You take smaller seminars. And if you think students at state flagships are producing "high school level work," you are crazy. You have to be more of a self-starter, in some ways; no one is spoon-feeding you this stuff, but the opportunities are there, and plentiful.

Unfortunately, depending on the course/ major, this is often exactly the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If one is in an honors college at a "big state school", the opportunities are incredible.

For those who think attending an SLAC or an LAC is a superior educational experience than attending a larger school--whether public or private, you are out-of-touch with the current reality of higher education.

Has something changed in the recent past or has this always been the case?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s not one answer. Sorry for stating the obvious. The big state U’s will have as many first rate students as selective liberal arts colleges, just spread out over a wider range of classes.

Intro classes are probably the weakest link. These can be balanced by small departments in some subjects, honors colleges, living-learning communities, and the departments that put a star researcher in 100 level lectures, etc.. Sometimes they’re not. There are invitations to dinner at professor’s houses, meeting seminars with visiting authors, outstanding arts performers brought in, just like at SLACs. It’s incredible though, some of the visiting performances that some of the small LACs can afford.

Feedback on writing is a reasonable question, and that’s variable too. Everything from one-on-one tutorials to seminars with writers in residence. It’s all there at the state Us, but each student is apt to have less access.

Science students at big state Us probably get less writing than at LACs; they often have a heavier load of required courses and take more per semester than LAC counter parts. What they learn is variable too. Some of the pre-health/ pharm students are highly grade focused at the expense of learning for understanding. Have seen this at top schools too.

What you get at big schools are a huge range of clubs, and a wider range of people. For some this is invigorating. For others it’s a lot of work to find what they need/want socially intellectually.

So much is dependent on the student’s personality, interests and goals.

Thanks. My chief concern is my kid would just cruise through and kind of hide, which is probably what I would do. It’s also probably what most of the kids do

My kid is at Berkeley after being in private high school. I was worried whether she would be able to cope and feel lost in the big environment. However, surprisingly as a freshman she already has research lined up. Had to really hustle to get into clubs and seems to be working very hard. She is a math major and is really liking being surrounded by very smart kids. Sure there are complaints but academically she feels very challenged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all classes at state universities are huge. You get to know the professors in your program, in student organizations, etc. There are many opportunities for connecting with faculty and getting individualized attention. You take smaller seminars. And if you think students at state flagships are producing "high school level work," you are crazy. You have to be more of a self-starter, in some ways; no one is spoon-feeding you this stuff, but the opportunities are there, and plentiful.

Unfortunately, depending on the course/ major, this is often exactly the case.

It has to be. Are you telling me your average in state kid at UGA is cranking out papers that rival kids from the northeast who've been through the ringer at elite privates or publics? No f'ing way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s not one answer. Sorry for stating the obvious. The big state U’s will have as many first rate students as selective liberal arts colleges, just spread out over a wider range of classes.

Intro classes are probably the weakest link. These can be balanced by small departments in some subjects, honors colleges, living-learning communities, and the departments that put a star researcher in 100 level lectures, etc.. Sometimes they’re not. There are invitations to dinner at professor’s houses, meeting seminars with visiting authors, outstanding arts performers brought in, just like at SLACs. It’s incredible though, some of the visiting performances that some of the small LACs can afford.

Feedback on writing is a reasonable question, and that’s variable too. Everything from one-on-one tutorials to seminars with writers in residence. It’s all there at the state Us, but each student is apt to have less access.

Science students at big state Us probably get less writing than at LACs; they often have a heavier load of required courses and take more per semester than LAC counter parts. What they learn is variable too. Some of the pre-health/ pharm students are highly grade focused at the expense of learning for understanding. Have seen this at top schools too.

What you get at big schools are a huge range of clubs, and a wider range of people. For some this is invigorating. For others it’s a lot of work to find what they need/want socially intellectually.

So much is dependent on the student’s personality, interests and goals.

Thanks. My chief concern is my kid would just cruise through and kind of hide, which is probably what I would do. It’s also probably what most of the kids do

My kid is at Berkeley after being in private high school. I was worried whether she would be able to cope and feel lost in the big environment. However, surprisingly as a freshman she already has research lined up. Had to really hustle to get into clubs and seems to be working very hard. She is a math major and is really liking being surrounded by very smart kids. Sure there are complaints but academically she feels very challenged.

Berkeley has a lot of very smart students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all classes at state universities are huge. You get to know the professors in your program, in student organizations, etc. There are many opportunities for connecting with faculty and getting individualized attention. You take smaller seminars. And if you think students at state flagships are producing "high school level work," you are crazy. You have to be more of a self-starter, in some ways; no one is spoon-feeding you this stuff, but the opportunities are there, and plentiful.

Unfortunately, depending on the course/ major, this is often exactly the case.

It has to be. Are you telling me your average in state kid at UGA is cranking out papers that rival kids from the northeast who've been through the ringer at elite privates or publics? No f'ing way.

You picked the wrong school to use as an example.

Look at the average SAT scores for the honors program, now honors college, at the University of Georgia. Even higher for the Foundation Fellows. Many turn down Ivy offers to matriculate at Georgia Honors. Probably more common than not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asking genuinely. They just seem so large and impersonal. The credential may be great but is the educational experience comparable to what one might have at a top private school? I attended a midsized elite private and suspect the educational experience I had is more similar to a smaller LAC. But when you go to Michigan or Florida or Wisconsin, is anyone really cultivating your abilities? Evaluating your written work carefully? Small seminars? Or is it more like watching good Ted talks and then handing something in (and then getting an A because most of the kids are in staters producing high school level work). Interested in perspectives on this from state u grads.

Sorry, OP. When your idiotic bias is front and center, as yours clearly is, I have no interest in wasting my time with a substantive answer. Frankly, you don’t deserve one.

Ok, this is my experience. I was staying with my friend at prestigious state u and he paid me $50 in the 1990s to write a paper for him. I cranked it out in an hour and he got an A+. It was B- ish work at Ivy League. Ever since then I’ve tended to think state u was bs.

So you helped someone cheat, and YOU have the moral high ground? You are not a good person, OP.

I never claimed I was a good person. I am just curious if I send my kid to state u will he have the same kind of intellectual growth experience I did, with professors giving me direct feedback on my papers, etc. I want my kid to have a good credential but it won’t be bad either if he grew along the way.

I went to Big State U and professors always gave me direct feedback on my papers, of which I wrote many.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asking genuinely. They just seem so large and impersonal. The credential may be great but is the educational experience comparable to what one might have at a top private school? I attended a midsized elite private and suspect the educational experience I had is more similar to a smaller LAC. But when you go to Michigan or Florida or Wisconsin, is anyone really cultivating your abilities? Evaluating your written work carefully? Small seminars? Or is it more like watching good Ted talks and then handing something in (and then getting an A because most of the kids are in staters producing high school level work). Interested in perspectives on this from state u grads.

Sorry, OP. When your idiotic bias is front and center, as yours clearly is, I have no interest in wasting my time with a substantive answer. Frankly, you don’t deserve one.

+1000, what a nasty piece of work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asking genuinely. They just seem so large and impersonal. The credential may be great but is the educational experience comparable to what one might have at a top private school? I attended a midsized elite private and suspect the educational experience I had is more similar to a smaller LAC. But when you go to Michigan or Florida or Wisconsin, is anyone really cultivating your abilities? Evaluating your written work carefully? Small seminars? Or is it more like watching good Ted talks and then handing something in (and then getting an A because most of the kids are in staters producing high school level work). Interested in perspectives on this from state u grads.

Sorry, OP. When your idiotic bias is front and center, as yours clearly is, I have no interest in wasting my time with a substantive answer. Frankly, you don’t deserve one.

Ok, this is my experience. I was staying with my friend at prestigious state u and he paid me $50 in the 1990s to write a paper for him. I cranked it out in an hour and he got an A+. It was B- ish work at Ivy League. Ever since then I’ve tended to think state u was bs.

So you helped someone cheat, and YOU have the moral high ground? You are not a good person, OP.

I never claimed I was a good person. I am just curious if I send my kid to state u will he have the same kind of intellectual growth experience I did, with professors giving me direct feedback on my papers, etc. I want my kid to have a good credential but it won’t be bad either if he grew along the way.

Lol @ intellectual growth. You don’t sound very impressive.

I made one snarky comment, geez

You extrapolated from one student in one class at one state university to decide that all state schools are "BS." Not all that impressed with your intellectual abilities, so I guess LACs turn out students unable to distinguish data from anecdotes?

If your kid is the kind of person who will skate by and do the minimum and isn't self-motivated, then a state school might not be the best for him. State schools offer many opportunities, chances to work with faculty, etc., but they don't do as much hand-holding, on average. Undergrads can get involved in cutting-edge research, work with world-class faculty, access incredible resources. But you have to be willing to seek out those challenges and opportunities. That said, I've seen kids skate through LACs, too. As with many things, you get out of it what you put in.