Is this ethical?

[Anonymous]

Also - do contractors hire fresh out of school PMs? I’ve never met one. They usually start as Business Analyst or something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is not what you asked. You’re obviously attempting to figure out how to skirt it so that it does not look like anything is happening that is unethical.

If your son applies to Lockheed in an open competition and is hired onto a contract in which his Father has no connection, that’s okay.[b]

If he gets a job at Lockheed because his name was floated as the son of your husband, regardless of which contract, it’s unethical. Your husband already did the floating of his name, so it’s already improper if there is literally any connection between that string pulled and your son being hired. Now, if your husband gives his son’s resume to some friend who owns a contracting company in which your husband has no reasonable assumption there is anything to be gained from the connection, it’s fine.

What happens if the son applies to a company in open competition at company X and during the interview, the son mentioned that his father is an SES a a federal agency that company X has contract with; However, the son is applying for another contracting position at another federal agency that company X also has a contract with. What will happen then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also - do contractors hire fresh out of school PMs? I’ve never met one. They usually start as Business Analyst or something.

The PM is the one that does the hiring.

[Anonymous]

Folks now I think OP is just f’king with us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not what you asked. You’re obviously attempting to figure out how to skirt it so that it does not look like anything is happening that is unethical.

If your son applies to Lockheed in an open competition and is hired onto a contract in which his Father has no connection, that’s okay.[b]

If he gets a job at Lockheed because his name was floated as the son of your husband, regardless of which contract, it’s unethical. Your husband already did the floating of his name, so it’s already improper if there is literally any connection between that string pulled and your son being hired. Now, if your husband gives his son’s resume to some friend who owns a contracting company in which your husband has no reasonable assumption there is anything to be gained from the connection, it’s fine.

What happens if the son applies to a company in open competition at company X and during the interview, the son mentioned that his father is an SES a a federal agency that company X has contract with; However, the son is applying for another contracting position at another federal agency that company X also has a contract with. What will happen then?

It doesn’t matter if his Dad is an SES at the agency as long as the position isn’t within the realm of his influence. What OP describes is a favor asked by an SES to a contractor to pass a resume. If that happens, it’s unethical. Or if he applies and there is any reasonable view that the Dad somehow influenced the decision of his hiring. Her son just applying there is not.

[Anonymous]

Unethical.

[Anonymous]

Seems totally fine to me but then again I'm in the private sector and this is how we fill our college recruitment, usually 3/4 of it are direct nepotism hires. And then we wonder why we're so white in the mgmt ranks...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:934 here. Let me just add... Not sure why you are asking this for your DH. As a SES or a fed at any level, he should know this. If he doesn't, he really shouldn't be sitting where he is sitting.

Hopefully OP is just asking out of her own curiosity and not because her SES husband asked her. You are right that anyone at that level should know the answer.

OP here. How about a different scenario? How about DS reaching out to the PM at another agency that has nothing to do with DH and get the job that way? DH is not involved in the process at all.

The caveat is that this PM is also working for the same company as the PM being managed by DH. Both PMs know each other and the PM that hires DS knows who DH is.

Is this OK in this scenario?

No. The fact that the PM is willing to lie about what he’s doing and also call in a favor from yet another guy doesn’t make this ethical. It makes it less ethical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is OP. I asked because I work in the private sector for a fortune 500, and people in the private sector do it all the time for their children, relatives, neighbors' kids, friends, etc... I did it a few times myself. What is such a big deal about it?

Oh dear….. I think the big deal is the laws and regulations and pesky things like prohibited personnel practices.

Have you spouse check with their ethics people at the agency. even if this were not blatantly UNethicial, it should still be run by ethics to CYA.

I know, OP, soooooo unfair. Boo hoo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is OP. I asked because I work in the private sector for a fortune 500, and people in the private sector do it all the time for their children, relatives, neighbors' kids, friends, etc... I did it a few times myself. What is such a big deal about it?

The difference is that you work for a Fortune 500 company and your husband is a Federal Executive.

It’s not okay because Federal Employees are subject to a long list of ethics rules. We are using public money when we do our jobs and it’s imperative that money is used above board in all interactions. Everything we do is public record. Your husband’s emails are saved. They’re sent to NARA. Any individual can request them. What if another contractor loses the contract. And the one who won is the one who employed the PM that helped your son? The losing contractor will certainly file a protest. They always file one. At that time, they’ll also file a FOIA request. All your husband’s emails will be sent. They will find any interaction between your husband and that PM. It will be noted that the PM passed the resume as requested by your husband.

Now you’re in trouble. All of that work processing that request will have used federal dollars. Dollars that come out of the paychecks of millions of American citizens. How do you think the American public feels when a Federal employee uses their influence to get work from a subordinate contractor for their privileged son, thereby giving an unfair advantage to that contractor in future bids? Spoiler alert! They don’t like it.

That’s why people are telling you this is wrong. Literally not one person told you on this thread that there is not a violation here, so he can go to ethics, but honestly…..why? You know it’s wrong. That’s why you asked. Stop trying to make something blue when it’s orange.

There can be absolutely no appearance of favoritism in contracts. If your husband passes a resume to a contractor over whom he has influence, and that contractor passes that resume to someone else to hire your son, that constitutes a favor. If you can’t understand why a contractor doing a favor for a Federal Executive is unethical, no one on this board can help you.

Certainly your husband has other connections. Also your son is a college educated adult with a supportive family. He can just apply to jobs like everyone else.

[Anonymous]

After almost 50 posts, OP still not getting it?? Holy cow!

[Anonymous]

It's actually okay if he does not intend to give a contract to the contractor in exchange.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's actually okay if he does not intend to give a contract to the contractor in exchange.

No it’s not. Stop talking with your a$$.

[Anonymous]

OP, you claim to work for a F500 company. Go read your compliance manuals. They will certainly address acts that could be considered or perceived as bribery. Hiring or helping to get hired children of government officials for whom you do business is certainly covered.

[Anonymous]

100% unethical and if OP's DS actually gets the job, someone will get fired.