Did changes to IDEA cause the Newport News shooting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CPS should be investigating all families/homes of kids who are emotional disturbed or disruptive at school to make sure the kids are eating and sleeping properly, not being abused, etc. And now we can add that they shouldn’t be allowed access to a gun to the list of things to be checked out.

The parents of this particular kid should be charged with attempted homicide for allowing their emotionally disturbed 6 year old access to a loaded firearm.

I know we all want to demonize these parents. But it’s possible these parents are living a nightmare with this kid, it’s possible they were doing almost everything they possibly could we th limited means. This kid is seriously disturbed based on what he’s said and done. The gun was a huge miscalculation on their part, but this child sounds, frankly, diabolical.

The teacher said to the principal get this kid out of my class. From now on teachers should be allowed to demand that administrators remove violent kids for the entire day, at a minimum. I hope the teacher unions fight for this. We will be destroying our public school system if we don’t protect teachers and other students from dangerous kids.

As a teacher reading up on this story I find it infuriating that admin ignored multiple warnings that this kid had a gun. The lesson I take from this? Trust no one and call the police if a weapon is seen or suspected.

Not a teacher. I find it infuriating too. What kind of bothers me also is this. If you believed a kid had a gun and posed a threat, why wouldn’t you check their pockets? I’m not victim blaming. Just trying to understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have a child like this. Having any kind of weapon in the home with an aggressive and mentally unstable child is unbelievably stupid. The parents are at fault for owning the gun and the admin are at fault for not finding the gun.

I’m really sorry. I too have a violent and disturbed kid but much older than this little boy. This little boy is terrifying and I can’t imagine trying to find the resources to care for and treat him.

What I learned early on is this. Every single thing is a weapon. After we removed knives (we don’t have guns), our kid went into our cabinets and broke drinking glasses and used them as weapons. While I am careful, I know that I cannot make the environment safe. Even if I boarded my windows and resorted to paper plates and spoons, got rid of tweezers and toothbrushes, my neighbors still have recycling bins with wine bottles. It’s an endless struggle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CPS should be investigating all families/homes of kids who are emotional disturbed or disruptive at school to make sure the kids are eating and sleeping properly, not being abused, etc. And now we can add that they shouldn’t be allowed access to a gun to the list of things to be checked out.

The parents of this particular kid should be charged with attempted homicide for allowing their emotionally disturbed 6 year old access to a loaded firearm.

I know we all want to demonize these parents. But it’s possible these parents are living a nightmare with this kid, it’s possible they were doing almost everything they possibly could we th limited means. This kid is seriously disturbed based on what he’s said and done. The gun was a huge miscalculation on their part, but this child sounds, frankly, diabolical.

The teacher said to the principal get this kid out of my class. From now on teachers should be allowed to demand that administrators remove violent kids for the entire day, at a minimum. I hope the teacher unions fight for this. We will be destroying our public school system if we don’t protect teachers and other students from dangerous kids.

As a teacher reading up on this story I find it infuriating that admin ignored multiple warnings that this kid had a gun. The lesson I take from this? Trust no one and call the police if a weapon is seen or suspected.

Not a teacher. I find it infuriating too. What kind of bothers me also is this. If you believed a kid had a gun and posed a threat, why wouldn’t you check their pockets? I’m not victim blaming. Just trying to understand.

I think it’s possible she’d been warned not to. I wouldn’t be surprised if the family had made threats of lawsuits or something else. She’s also young. As a 25 year old teacher I was much more cautious with things than I was a decade later (after I realized that especially given shortages nothing really happens to even the worst teachers)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CPS should be investigating all families/homes of kids who are emotional disturbed or disruptive at school to make sure the kids are eating and sleeping properly, not being abused, etc. And now we can add that they shouldn’t be allowed access to a gun to the list of things to be checked out.

The parents of this particular kid should be charged with attempted homicide for allowing their emotionally disturbed 6 year old access to a loaded firearm.

I know we all want to demonize these parents. But it’s possible these parents are living a nightmare with this kid, it’s possible they were doing almost everything they possibly could we th limited means. This kid is seriously disturbed based on what he’s said and done. The gun was a huge miscalculation on their part, but this child sounds, frankly, diabolical.

The teacher said to the principal get this kid out of my class. From now on teachers should be allowed to demand that administrators remove violent kids for the entire day, at a minimum. I hope the teacher unions fight for this. We will be destroying our public school system if we don’t protect teachers and other students from dangerous kids.

As a teacher reading up on this story I find it infuriating that admin ignored multiple warnings that this kid had a gun. The lesson I take from this? Trust no one and call the police if a weapon is seen or suspected.

Not a teacher. I find it infuriating too. What kind of bothers me also is this. If you believed a kid had a gun and posed a threat, why wouldn’t you check their pockets? I’m not victim blaming. Just trying to understand.

If you think someone is armed and they've already made threats, getting close enough to search them is very risky especially if you're in a room full of other potential victims and there's no one/ no adult to help you. There are a lot of stories going around but I bet the teacher did ask the student to empty his pockets or asked him if she could check his pockets right before he shot her. If the teacher had searched the student and found no weapon, she'd be vilified for putting her hands on a child.

I agree that any child who is violent enough to cause bodily injury to staff or other students or is repeatedly making threats should be removed from the general education setting. It doesn't take 6 weeks of data to tell you there needs to be a change of placement after the first or certainly the second incident.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CPS should be investigating all families/homes of kids who are emotional disturbed or disruptive at school to make sure the kids are eating and sleeping properly, not being abused, etc. And now we can add that they shouldn’t be allowed access to a gun to the list of things to be checked out.

The parents of this particular kid should be charged with attempted homicide for allowing their emotionally disturbed 6 year old access to a loaded firearm.

I know we all want to demonize these parents. But it’s possible these parents are living a nightmare with this kid, it’s possible they were doing almost everything they possibly could we th limited means. This kid is seriously disturbed based on what he’s said and done. The gun was a huge miscalculation on their part, but this child sounds, frankly, diabolical.

The teacher said to the principal get this kid out of my class. From now on teachers should be allowed to demand that administrators remove violent kids for the entire day, at a minimum. I hope the teacher unions fight for this. We will be destroying our public school system if we don’t protect teachers and other students from dangerous kids.

As a teacher reading up on this story I find it infuriating that admin ignored multiple warnings that this kid had a gun. The lesson I take from this? Trust no one and call the police if a weapon is seen or suspected.

Not a teacher. I find it infuriating too. What kind of bothers me also is this. If you believed a kid had a gun and posed a threat, why wouldn’t you check their pockets? I’m not victim blaming. Just trying to understand.

She didn’t want to lose her job. How is that hard to understand? Oh and she probably didn’t think her bosses were psychopaths so she was also probably in shock that they refused to do anything and had so little regard for her safety. And she was busy wrangling a class of young children and trying to teach them something despite having at least one violent and disruptive kid in the mix.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CPS should be investigating all families/homes of kids who are emotional disturbed or disruptive at school to make sure the kids are eating and sleeping properly, not being abused, etc. And now we can add that they shouldn’t be allowed access to a gun to the list of things to be checked out.

The parents of this particular kid should be charged with attempted homicide for allowing their emotionally disturbed 6 year old access to a loaded firearm.

I know we all want to demonize these parents. But it’s possible these parents are living a nightmare with this kid, it’s possible they were doing almost everything they possibly could we th limited means. This kid is seriously disturbed based on what he’s said and done. The gun was a huge miscalculation on their part, but this child sounds, frankly, diabolical.

The teacher said to the principal get this kid out of my class. From now on teachers should be allowed to demand that administrators remove violent kids for the entire day, at a minimum. I hope the teacher unions fight for this. We will be destroying our public school system if we don’t protect teachers and other students from dangerous kids.

As a teacher reading up on this story I find it infuriating that admin ignored multiple warnings that this kid had a gun. The lesson I take from this? Trust no one and call the police if a weapon is seen or suspected.

Not a teacher. I find it infuriating too. What kind of bothers me also is this. If you believed a kid had a gun and posed a threat, why wouldn’t you check their pockets? I’m not victim blaming. Just trying to understand.

If you think someone is armed and they've already made threats, getting close enough to search them is very risky especially if you're in a room full of other potential victims and there's no one/ no adult to help you. There are a lot of stories going around but I bet the teacher did ask the student to empty his pockets or asked him if she could check his pockets right before he shot her. If the teacher had searched the student and found no weapon, she'd be vilified for putting her hands on a child.

I agree that any child who is violent enough to cause bodily injury to staff or other students or is repeatedly making threats should be removed from the general education setting. It doesn't take 6 weeks of data to tell you there needs to be a change of placement after the first or certainly the second incident.

I agree with you. The issue is a lack of resources. There might be only one school in their area that takes kids like this at his age, and if they are full...there is literally nowhere to send him. I have seen kids in fcps sit out of school for over a year waiting for an opening. The ER likely won't admit him, or he will have to board there while they look for an open bed for a 6 year old (only a handful of beds in the whole state). Then insurance might not agree to pay for more than a day or two to switch meds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a child like this. Having any kind of weapon in the home with an aggressive and mentally unstable child is unbelievably stupid. The parents are at fault for owning the gun and the admin are at fault for not finding the gun.

I’m really sorry. I too have a violent and disturbed kid but much older than this little boy. This little boy is terrifying and I can’t imagine trying to find the resources to care for and treat him.

What I learned early on is this. Every single thing is a weapon. After we removed knives (we don’t have guns), our kid went into our cabinets and broke drinking glasses and used them as weapons. While I am careful, I know that I cannot make the environment safe. Even if I boarded my windows and resorted to paper plates and spoons, got rid of tweezers and toothbrushes, my neighbors still have recycling bins with wine bottles. It’s an endless struggle.

So sorry, PP. This sounds amazingly stressful and heartbreaking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Three things are true:
1.These issues predate Biden/Trump/Obama in my personal experience
2. Some kids are violent regardless of parenting
3. Owning a gun in this situation was bad parenting

But back in the day, we put violent kids into special schools with lots of staff and supports. My grandma worked at one during the 1970s, a "School for the Emotionally Disturbed." Expecting other kids and their teachers to deal with this and many other "special" behaviors is entirely unreasonable.

They still have schools like this. They are often full (no seats), and school districts pay $400/day-ish per student (these are day schools, not residential). There aren't enough of them and there aren't enough seats and they are incredibly difficult to staff.

They don't have them here, you know, in DCUM land.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, IDEA did not cause the school shooting. GUNS caused the school shooting. The FAILURE to implement IDEA correctly caused this child to be in general ed without the 1:1 he clearly needed.

Harsh discipline *does not help* kids with aggression problems. Especially very young children who clearly have something developmental going on. Harsh discipline (such as suspension & expulsion) does have a role for older kids. But not 6 year olds.

Ok, but it allows the teachers to teach and the other students aren’t robbed of the ability to learn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a child like this. Having any kind of weapon in the home with an aggressive and mentally unstable child is unbelievably stupid. The parents are at fault for owning the gun and the admin are at fault for not finding the gun.

I’m really sorry. I too have a violent and disturbed kid but much older than this little boy. This little boy is terrifying and I can’t imagine trying to find the resources to care for and treat him.

What I learned early on is this. Every single thing is a weapon. After we removed knives (we don’t have guns), our kid went into our cabinets and broke drinking glasses and used them as weapons. While I am careful, I know that I cannot make the environment safe. Even if I boarded my windows and resorted to paper plates and spoons, got rid of tweezers and toothbrushes, my neighbors still have recycling bins with wine bottles. It’s an endless struggle.

I am so so sorry that you have this struggle. unlike other SN kids, those with downs or academic limitations- wouldn't your child be better off in an institution that catered to caring for someone who has such difficulty regulating their emotions? I'm thinking some place almost designed like a retreat/monastary with individual rooms to sleep in and a lot of green space and room to be by themselves and have highly regulated interactions with others so they dont feel so isolated that it causes self harm? I mean shouldn't we be pouring tax dollars in this instead of having terrified and overwhelmed families, individuals (im sure the children who cant manage themselves are harsh towards themselves as well) and communities. I think instead if shutting down institutions they should've just proved them and increased staff b/c the problem of the mentally ill having to navigate society that they are utterly unequipped for is also cruel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Three things are true:
1.These issues predate Biden/Trump/Obama in my personal experience
2. Some kids are violent regardless of parenting
3. Owning a gun in this situation was bad parenting

But back in the day, we put violent kids into special schools with lots of staff and supports. My grandma worked at one during the 1970s, a "School for the Emotionally Disturbed." Expecting other kids and their teachers to deal with this and many other "special" behaviors is entirely unreasonable.

They still have schools like this. They are often full (no seats), and school districts pay $400/day-ish per student (these are day schools, not residential). There aren't enough of them and there aren't enough seats and they are incredibly difficult to staff.

They don't have them here, you know, in DCUM land.

We have them

https://www.fcps.edu/academics/academic-overview/nontraditional-school-programs/alternative-learning-centers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CPS should be investigating all families/homes of kids who are emotional disturbed or disruptive at school to make sure the kids are eating and sleeping properly, not being abused, etc. And now we can add that they shouldn’t be allowed access to a gun to the list of things to be checked out.

The parents of this particular kid should be charged with attempted homicide for allowing their emotionally disturbed 6 year old access to a loaded firearm.

I know we all want to demonize these parents. But it’s possible these parents are living a nightmare with this kid, it’s possible they were doing almost everything they possibly could we th limited means. This kid is seriously disturbed based on what he’s said and done. The gun was a huge miscalculation on their part, but this child sounds, frankly, diabolical.

The teacher said to the principal get this kid out of my class. From now on teachers should be allowed to demand that administrators remove violent kids for the entire day, at a minimum. I hope the teacher unions fight for this. We will be destroying our public school system if we don’t protect teachers and other students from dangerous kids.

As a teacher reading up on this story I find it infuriating that admin ignored multiple warnings that this kid had a gun. The lesson I take from this? Trust no one and call the police if a weapon is seen or suspected.

Not a teacher. I find it infuriating too. What kind of bothers me also is this. If you believed a kid had a gun and posed a threat, why wouldn’t you check their pockets? I’m not victim blaming. Just trying to understand.

The story I saw was that they learned about the possible weapon when the child was out at recess and searched the backpack at that time (and now it's believed that the child had the weapon in their coat at recess at that time). At recess, the student apparently showed another child the weapon and threatened to hurt them if they told. That child did tell (not clear on the timeline, there may have been an understandable delay if the child was afraid). When that report came in, they decided it was close enough to the end of the day to not immediately act upon that info. If that part is true, the admin that made that decision has a lot to answer for.

[Anonymous]

There is such a tremendous range of special needs kids. Policies have to be sensitive to the diverse population - and the diverse set of behaviors - involved. The example in the article of a kid with Tourette’s who curses, or say, a kid with ASD who has social difficulties and may say inappropriate things, or someone with more severe ASD who bolts in frightening situations, and a whole spectrum of other behaviors, is still materially different from a child who may bring a gun to school. It sounds like there was a major failure of common sense on the administration’s part here - we just don’t have the details yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Three things are true:
1.These issues predate Biden/Trump/Obama in my personal experience
2. Some kids are violent regardless of parenting
3. Owning a gun in this situation was bad parenting

But back in the day, we put violent kids into special schools with lots of staff and supports. My grandma worked at one during the 1970s, a "School for the Emotionally Disturbed." Expecting other kids and their teachers to deal with this and many other "special" behaviors is entirely unreasonable.

They still have schools like this. They are often full (no seats), and school districts pay $400/day-ish per student (these are day schools, not residential). There aren't enough of them and there aren't enough seats and they are incredibly difficult to staff.

They don't have them here, you know, in DCUM land.

We have them

https://www.fcps.edu/academics/academic-overview/nontraditional-school-programs/alternative-learning-centers

Those are for high schooler in trouble with the law, not mentally ill kindergarteners.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Three things are true:
1.These issues predate Biden/Trump/Obama in my personal experience
2. Some kids are violent regardless of parenting
3. Owning a gun in this situation was bad parenting

But back in the day, we put violent kids into special schools with lots of staff and supports. My grandma worked at one during the 1970s, a "School for the Emotionally Disturbed." Expecting other kids and their teachers to deal with this and many other "special" behaviors is entirely unreasonable.

They still have schools like this. They are often full (no seats), and school districts pay $400/day-ish per student (these are day schools, not residential). There aren't enough of them and there aren't enough seats and they are incredibly difficult to staff.

They don't have them here, you know, in DCUM land.

We have them

https://www.fcps.edu/academics/academic-overview/nontraditional-school-programs/alternative-learning-centers

Those are for high schooler in trouble with the law, not mentally ill kindergarteners.

Burke is K-6