Want to get down to 15-17% bodyfat

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My mom is naturally ultra-lean. And it’s a disaster for her bones, despite aggressive treatment for osteoporosis. She’s barely 60 and has broken two bones in the last year.

Your mom being "ultra lean" is not the reason for her Osteo unless you're telling me that she's actually anorexic or bulimic. Her condition is partly due to genetics, partly diet, and partly lifestyle including whether or not she chose to get on HRT after menopause, whether or not she lifts heavy weights, and whether or not she exposes herself to the sun for at least 10 mins a day of direct exposure. All of those things combined got her to where she is now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is a snippet of research for body builders in a caloric deficit. https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/13/9/3255#B96-nutrients-13-03255

Key take aways... aim for no more than 1% fat loss a week. Carbs are important and maintain high protein.

So for me, as a male at 170lb at 20% BF, puts me at around 136lb muscle or 60kg. Therefore, it seems I need 132g protein, 120-180g carbs, and min 30g per fat.

That is around 270 fat + 600 carbs + 528 protein = ~1400 calories daily.



Resistance-trained athletes undergoing a weight loss phase should focus their efforts on maximizing FFM retention while reducing the fat mass. The caloric intake should be set based on a target BW loss of 0.5–1.0%/week in order to maximize retention of FFM. The lower the % body fat of the athlete, the more conservative should the energy deficit be. The recommended protein intake is 2.2–3.0 g/kg BW/day, distributing this throughout the day in three–six meals and ensuring in each of them an adequate amount of protein (0.40–0.55 g/kg BW/intake). The carbohydrate intake should be adapted to the athlete’s activity level in order to promote performance during training (2–5 g/kg BW/day). Individuals who wish to engage in more severe CHO restriction (e.g., ketogenic conditions) may increase the risk of FFM loss, despite a similar capacity to preserve strength. Once the protein and carbohydrate intake has been established, the rest of the calories can be assigned to fat, ensuring a minimum intake of ≥0.5 g/kg BW/day. Regarding protein timing, an intake 2–3 h before training and another 2–3 h post-training is preferable. The intake of caffeine (3–6 mg/kg BW/day) and creatine monohydrate (3–5 g/day, up to 5–10 g/day in larger athletes) could be incorporated into the athlete’s diet due to the ergogenic effects related to resistance-training. Specific vitamin supplementation should be limited to special situations in which there is the detection of, or high risk for deficiency—and the athlete cannot consume the recommended daily amount of these nutrients through dietary sources. Routine MVM use remains controversial but its benefits likely outweigh its risks. The main limitation of this review is the small number of long-term studies with large samples conducted on resistance-trained athletes during a weight loss phase. More research is required in this population in order to expand our knowledge and improve nutritional and dietary supplement recommendations. Table 1 summarizes the conclusions of each subsection.

The macronutrients in that article, which I largely agree with, seem related to total body weight, not lean mass. That would mean your minimum intake would be 170P/154C/38F or 1638 calories. Then you still need to relate this results to your estimated calorie expenditure as at this very low calorie intake you would be likely losing more than 1% of BW a week. 1400 calories would be ridiculous for a male of your size. I do not have to cut this aggressively as a 30lbs lighter female.
Also, I know you are a dude, but for women this fat intake would be quite low. At least 40g per day on average is recommended for hormonal health.

Helms et al. [12], in the only systematic review of results obtained for athletes who perform resistance training during periods of CR, suggested a protein intake of 2.3–3.1 g/kg FFM/day.

Doesn't that mean fat weight should not be included?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is a snippet of research for body builders in a caloric deficit. https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/13/9/3255#B96-nutrients-13-03255

Key take aways... aim for no more than 1% fat loss a week. Carbs are important and maintain high protein.

So for me, as a male at 170lb at 20% BF, puts me at around 136lb muscle or 60kg. Therefore, it seems I need 132g protein, 120-180g carbs, and min 30g per fat.

That is around 270 fat + 600 carbs + 528 protein = ~1400 calories daily.



Resistance-trained athletes undergoing a weight loss phase should focus their efforts on maximizing FFM retention while reducing the fat mass. The caloric intake should be set based on a target BW loss of 0.5–1.0%/week in order to maximize retention of FFM. The lower the % body fat of the athlete, the more conservative should the energy deficit be. The recommended protein intake is 2.2–3.0 g/kg BW/day, distributing this throughout the day in three–six meals and ensuring in each of them an adequate amount of protein (0.40–0.55 g/kg BW/intake). The carbohydrate intake should be adapted to the athlete’s activity level in order to promote performance during training (2–5 g/kg BW/day). Individuals who wish to engage in more severe CHO restriction (e.g., ketogenic conditions) may increase the risk of FFM loss, despite a similar capacity to preserve strength. Once the protein and carbohydrate intake has been established, the rest of the calories can be assigned to fat, ensuring a minimum intake of ≥0.5 g/kg BW/day. Regarding protein timing, an intake 2–3 h before training and another 2–3 h post-training is preferable. The intake of caffeine (3–6 mg/kg BW/day) and creatine monohydrate (3–5 g/day, up to 5–10 g/day in larger athletes) could be incorporated into the athlete’s diet due to the ergogenic effects related to resistance-training. Specific vitamin supplementation should be limited to special situations in which there is the detection of, or high risk for deficiency—and the athlete cannot consume the recommended daily amount of these nutrients through dietary sources. Routine MVM use remains controversial but its benefits likely outweigh its risks. The main limitation of this review is the small number of long-term studies with large samples conducted on resistance-trained athletes during a weight loss phase. More research is required in this population in order to expand our knowledge and improve nutritional and dietary supplement recommendations. Table 1 summarizes the conclusions of each subsection.

The macronutrients in that article, which I largely agree with, seem related to total body weight, not lean mass. That would mean your minimum intake would be 170P/154C/38F or 1638 calories. Then you still need to relate this results to your estimated calorie expenditure as at this very low calorie intake you would be likely losing more than 1% of BW a week. 1400 calories would be ridiculous for a male of your size. I do not have to cut this aggressively as a 30lbs lighter female.
Also, I know you are a dude, but for women this fat intake would be quite low. At least 40g per day on average is recommended for hormonal health.

Helms et al. [12], in the only systematic review of results obtained for athletes who perform resistance training during periods of CR, suggested a protein intake of 2.3–3.1 g/kg FFM/day.

Doesn't that mean fat weight should not be included?

This was not mentioned in the post I was reacting to. I was using this "the recommended protein intake is 2.2–3.0 g/kg BW/day, ".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is a snippet of research for body builders in a caloric deficit. https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/13/9/3255#B96-nutrients-13-03255

Key take aways... aim for no more than 1% fat loss a week. Carbs are important and maintain high protein.

So for me, as a male at 170lb at 20% BF, puts me at around 136lb muscle or 60kg. Therefore, it seems I need 132g protein, 120-180g carbs, and min 30g per fat.

That is around 270 fat + 600 carbs + 528 protein = ~1400 calories daily.



Resistance-trained athletes undergoing a weight loss phase should focus their efforts on maximizing FFM retention while reducing the fat mass. The caloric intake should be set based on a target BW loss of 0.5–1.0%/week in order to maximize retention of FFM. The lower the % body fat of the athlete, the more conservative should the energy deficit be. The recommended protein intake is 2.2–3.0 g/kg BW/day, distributing this throughout the day in three–six meals and ensuring in each of them an adequate amount of protein (0.40–0.55 g/kg BW/intake). The carbohydrate intake should be adapted to the athlete’s activity level in order to promote performance during training (2–5 g/kg BW/day). Individuals who wish to engage in more severe CHO restriction (e.g., ketogenic conditions) may increase the risk of FFM loss, despite a similar capacity to preserve strength. Once the protein and carbohydrate intake has been established, the rest of the calories can be assigned to fat, ensuring a minimum intake of ≥0.5 g/kg BW/day. Regarding protein timing, an intake 2–3 h before training and another 2–3 h post-training is preferable. The intake of caffeine (3–6 mg/kg BW/day) and creatine monohydrate (3–5 g/day, up to 5–10 g/day in larger athletes) could be incorporated into the athlete’s diet due to the ergogenic effects related to resistance-training. Specific vitamin supplementation should be limited to special situations in which there is the detection of, or high risk for deficiency—and the athlete cannot consume the recommended daily amount of these nutrients through dietary sources. Routine MVM use remains controversial but its benefits likely outweigh its risks. The main limitation of this review is the small number of long-term studies with large samples conducted on resistance-trained athletes during a weight loss phase. More research is required in this population in order to expand our knowledge and improve nutritional and dietary supplement recommendations. Table 1 summarizes the conclusions of each subsection.

The macronutrients in that article, which I largely agree with, seem related to total body weight, not lean mass. That would mean your minimum intake would be 170P/154C/38F or 1638 calories. Then you still need to relate this results to your estimated calorie expenditure as at this very low calorie intake you would be likely losing more than 1% of BW a week. 1400 calories would be ridiculous for a male of your size. I do not have to cut this aggressively as a 30lbs lighter female.
Also, I know you are a dude, but for women this fat intake would be quite low. At least 40g per day on average is recommended for hormonal health.

Helms et al. [12], in the only systematic review of results obtained for athletes who perform resistance training during periods of CR, suggested a protein intake of 2.3–3.1 g/kg FFM/day.

Doesn't that mean fat weight should not be included?

This was not mentioned in the post I was reacting to. I was using this "the recommended protein intake is 2.2–3.0 g/kg BW/day, ".

Yea, fat doesnt need protein.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mom is naturally ultra-lean. And it’s a disaster for her bones, despite aggressive treatment for osteoporosis. She’s barely 60 and has broken two bones in the last year.

Your mom being "ultra lean" is not the reason for her Osteo unless you're telling me that she's actually anorexic or bulimic. Her condition is partly due to genetics, partly diet, and partly lifestyle including whether or not she chose to get on HRT after menopause, whether or not she lifts heavy weights, and whether or not she exposes herself to the sun for at least 10 mins a day of direct exposure. All of those things combined got her to where she is now.

No, that’s nonsense. People with smaller statures are at higher risk for osteoporosis even factoring in all of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a 44 yo female. Anyone here at that BF level? Is this completely unrealistic? Any advice?

This link below talks about inability to menstruate. Why do I need to menstruate? Also my hormones are already out of whack due to perimenopause. In fact, I started cutting cals and increasing exercise since NYE and already feel better vis a vis perimenopausal mood swings (nothing extreme, 1500 cals, slowly increasing cardio).


https://www.builtlean.com/body-fat-percentage-men-women/

That is really hard to achieve OP especially at your age. Being able to get that low is for the under 30 crowd, and those who are genetically built to naturally be this way. Also why do you need to menstruate? Because it offers protection for your bones. And at 44 you need all the protection you can get, don't be dumb and short-sighted. I work out every day, 3 days a week with heavy weights. I eat very low carb, and consume a good amount of protein. My calories are around 1400 per day. And even with this there is no way my body fat is 15-17%. I'm likely closer to 22-24%. And that is fine!

I am 42 and also work out daily. And my BF is about the same as yours. But I eat 2500 calories a day to maintain my weight. Are you sure you are eating that little? 1400 would be a drastic unsustainable deficit for me. And btw. age has nothing with achieving the leanness OP desires. She can get there just fine if she stays committed. Whether she will actually be happy and look good once she reaches her goal is a different story.

I'm absolutely sure my calories are in the 1400 range. I don't starve myself, I just don't have a big appetite, but I do make sure to eat enough protein and fat in those 1400 cals. And I really do work out every day, or nearly every day. Also age does matter - I'm post-menopausal.

DP. I dont doubt what you are saying. But I strongly doubt you have as high bf as you think. Im the one who posted about accidentally getting doqn to 16.7%. I would have never known if I didnt randomly have a physical that involved a bodyfat composition assessment. I would have also thought it was in the 20s. Even now, after gaining fat, I stay in the sub-20s. I keep a fairly strict diet and also workout most days, and although Im very slender, my weight is normal. If all these things apply to you also, take note-- you may want to get an assessment to make sure your bf if high enough to weather an illness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mom is naturally ultra-lean. And it’s a disaster for her bones, despite aggressive treatment for osteoporosis. She’s barely 60 and has broken two bones in the last year.

Is she lean with a plenty of muscle or just lean in terms of low bodyfat but not much muscle? Was she strength training throughout her life and was she eating a nutritious diet or is her leanness an outcome of perpetual dieting? Leanness per se should not be a factor in osteoporosis, but the behaviors that led to that leanness might be implicated.

Has done weight bearing exercise almost daily as long as I can remember. Healthy diet, doesn’t restrict, but has always struggled to keep weight on. Whereas most of us see weight slowly creep up if we aren’t careful, her body seems to naturally do the opposite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I lost about 15% of my total weight and now I am cold ALL the time because I have no padding. I'd rather be cold than fat but still.

Yep.

[Anonymous]

I was probably around 17-18% BF at my worst during my pandemic eating disorder relapse, and I looked like I was 40 when I was 31. I'm more vain than I'd like to admit, because as terrified as I was about getting a stress fracture or long-term bone issues, it was looking at myself in the mirror every morning that pushed me to get back to my standard quasi-recovery. Also my arms were so veiny and gross.

Also, I had to pee all the time. This is common among women who develop hypothalamic amenorrhea, something about low estrogen. Like I felt like I couldn't go on a good walk without planning a bathroom break. I wasn't sleeping well and would wake up with hot flashes. I was completely obsessive about food and could think about nothing else. I also couldn't stay still and was constantly compulsively moving (another thing associated with eating disorders).

I wasn't even willingly trying to lose weight--I was trying to avoid gaining the "pandemic 15." But yeah. Don't do this, it's not worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was 13-15% BF for 10 years as a professional athlete. You don’t want it. Literally years of disrupted/poor sleep, kidney issues, cold all the time, SO moody, extremely short fuse, hair falling out, nails breaking.

I’m so curious. What sport?

Damn

[Anonymous]

What is average body fat for an in-shape male early 40s

[Anonymous]

Why? My 14 YO, 99 pound daughter is in that range.

[Anonymous]

What’s your height and weight?

[Anonymous]

I had 12% body fat as a college athlete. I still menstruated. I was exercising for hours each day. But I’m not sure why that is a goal in and of itself, OP. I probably would not look good now in my 40s with so little fat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is average body fat for an in-shape male early 40s

I’d say 12-14 percent is good 7-12 is elite