Indiana University political science placement director writes scorched earth letter to PhD students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bottom line: We suck.

The bottom line is that 99% of universities suck at placing PhDs into academic jobs. If you aren't studying at somewhere like Harvard or unless you have very interesting research that has resonated enough to get you funding, you aren't getting a tenure track job.

I have at two friends with PhD's from Harvard who are quite underemployed in their respective fields, Art History and Psychology.

I have a friend with an Art History PhD from a similarly regarded university who teaches at a high school.

Having a prestigious name on your PhD doesn't get you a job, but not having one almost guarantees you won't get one

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bottom line: We suck.

The bottom line is that 99% of universities suck at placing PhDs into academic jobs. If you aren't studying at somewhere like Harvard or unless you have very interesting research that has resonated enough to get you funding, you aren't getting a tenure track job.

I have at two friends with PhD's from Harvard who are quite underemployed in their respective fields, Art History and Psychology.

I have a friend with an Art History PhD from a similarly regarded university who teaches at a high school.

Does she enjoy it? Is she happy? Did she enjoy her education? Was that degree a dream come true? If so, why does it matter where she’s teaching?

So many shallow finance bros and their mothers on this board who don’t value education for the sake of education and can’t imagine enjoying a life that doesn’t include a platinum card and a Mercedes.

WhY iS tHeRe a MeNTaL HeaLth CriSeS???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bottom line: We suck.

The bottom line is that 99% of universities suck at placing PhDs into academic jobs. If you aren't studying at somewhere like Harvard or unless you have very interesting research that has resonated enough to get you funding, you aren't getting a tenure track job.

I have at two friends with PhD's from Harvard who are quite underemployed in their respective fields, Art History and Psychology.

I have a friend with an Art History PhD from a similarly regarded university who teaches at a high school.

Does she enjoy it? Is she happy? Did she enjoy her education? Was that degree a dream come true? If so, why does it matter where she’s teaching?

So many shallow finance bros and their mothers on this board who don’t value education for the sake of education and can’t imagine enjoying a life that doesn’t include a platinum card and a Mercedes.

WhY iS tHeRe a MeNTaL HeaLth CriSeS???

NP. I have a Ph.D. from a top program and work at at non-profit, which I enjoy. For me the problem isn't prestige, it's money. I lost 8 years of adult earning while I was getting my degree and now I make an okay salary, but certainly not the salary and benefits of a tenured professor at an R1. I finally had my loans discharged through PSLF this year, so I could move to a for-profit job but now I'm a middle aged person with no corporate experience and not enough money saved for retirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even our DD who is doing a post grad work year at HYP school in chemistry says the PHD students have warned her off getting one. She doesn’t plan to go into academia if she gets one.

How will the US stay competitive with this type of system? HYP fully funds these types of PhDs!

+1. It is not just humanities PHDs who have trouble finding jobs in academia. Academia is basically run by the elderly now. Both of my parents are PhDs and professors at a university. They are 78 and 76 and have no plans to retire yet. Most of their colleagues are boomers or older. I"m a gen-xer with a PhD and am a SME at a think tank. I've never been interested in being a professor (I've done adjunct work like lots of folks in DC to pad my resume), but it is brutal out there. I think they should have mandatory retirement ages for professors (not just tenured ones, but any full-time faculty).

PP, what are your thoughts here about your parents still teaching while your immediate peers and even younger ones languish because of no openings? I think the LAC where I attended appealed to professors in the upper end of Baby Boom age range to retire by at least 70, if not earlier, in order to create openings for younger staff. A couple of my classmates who were profs and are not yet 65 retired when they hit 30 years in order to do this.

f

In my post I said there should be mandatory retirement ages. I have been bugging my parents to retire since they turned 70. My mom has had two colleagues who the department had to appeal to family members because these folks were still working with early dementia. Their research (and teaching) is their life. It is great that they still love it, but, I think it is time for them to move on.

DCUM ageism never fails. I know a woman in her 40s with long Covid memory issues. You think she should be told to retire?

So frustrating to see this generation fight so fiercely for human decency toward “others” yet proudly and with zero self-awareness, discriminate, insult, and devalue older people. Your Tik Tok videos making fun of “boomers” go viral but god forbid we accidentally mess up your preferred pronoun. Hypocrites.

Okay, Joe Biden. Sorry 50+ year of professional power wasn't enough for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even our DD who is doing a post grad work year at HYP school in chemistry says the PHD students have warned her off getting one. She doesn’t plan to go into academia if she gets one.

How will the US stay competitive with this type of system? HYP fully funds these types of PhDs!

+1. It is not just humanities PHDs who have trouble finding jobs in academia. Academia is basically run by the elderly now. Both of my parents are PhDs and professors at a university. They are 78 and 76 and have no plans to retire yet. Most of their colleagues are boomers or older. I"m a gen-xer with a PhD and am a SME at a think tank. I've never been interested in being a professor (I've done adjunct work like lots of folks in DC to pad my resume), but it is brutal out there. I think they should have mandatory retirement ages for professors (not just tenured ones, but any full-time faculty).

PP, what are your thoughts here about your parents still teaching while your immediate peers and even younger ones languish because of no openings? I think the LAC where I attended appealed to professors in the upper end of Baby Boom age range to retire by at least 70, if not earlier, in order to create openings for younger staff. A couple of my classmates who were profs and are not yet 65 retired when they hit 30 years in order to do this.

It doesn't matter if they retire because, when they do, their positions will be placed by Clinical/Term, VAPs, or adjuncts. -- Professor and child of a Boomer Professor

[Anonymous]

My spouse and I both have PhDs. One of us is a professor and the other is a fed. Our combined HHI is $160k. I am positive we would be making more if we'd gone to law school, transitioned to tech, almost anything really. I agree it was kind of a waste of prime years, and discourage others from getting PhDs.

That said, how representative is the Director of New Tech making $350k after getting an MA at 20? My guess is about as representative as the grad with a TT job at an R1 in a desirable location - this is the best case scenario, not the norm for someone with an MA in Poli Sci. It's exactly the same unrealistic promise the letter writer criticizes the university for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bottom line: We suck.

The bottom line is that 99% of universities suck at placing PhDs into academic jobs. If you aren't studying at somewhere like Harvard or unless you have very interesting research that has resonated enough to get you funding, you aren't getting a tenure track job.

I have at two friends with PhD's from Harvard who are quite underemployed in their respective fields, Art History and Psychology.

I have a friend with an Art History PhD from a similarly regarded university who teaches at a high school.

Does she enjoy it? Is she happy? Did she enjoy her education? Was that degree a dream come true? If so, why does it matter where she’s teaching?

So many shallow finance bros and their mothers on this board who don’t value education for the sake of education and can’t imagine enjoying a life that doesn’t include a platinum card and a Mercedes.

WhY iS tHeRe a MeNTaL HeaLth CriSeS???

NP. I have a Ph.D. from a top program and work at at non-profit, which I enjoy. For me the problem isn't prestige, it's money. I lost 8 years of adult earning while I was getting my degree and now I make an okay salary, but certainly not the salary and benefits of a tenured professor at an R1. I finally had my loans discharged through PSLF this year, so I could move to a for-profit job but now I'm a middle aged person with no corporate experience and not enough money saved for retirement.

Saaaaame! I'm 37 and living in the crappiest, tiniest, furthest out house because I have to focus on maxing out retirement on a five figure salary with a kid in day care. I was so proud of myself for putting money into my puny Roth IRA while.making 20-25k a year through my 20s...the smarter thing would have been to make double or triple or quadruple that in another job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even our DD who is doing a post grad work year at HYP school in chemistry says the PHD students have warned her off getting one. She doesn’t plan to go into academia if she gets one.

How will the US stay competitive with this type of system? HYP fully funds these types of PhDs!

+1. It is not just humanities PHDs who have trouble finding jobs in academia. Academia is basically run by the elderly now. Both of my parents are PhDs and professors at a university. They are 78 and 76 and have no plans to retire yet. Most of their colleagues are boomers or older. I"m a gen-xer with a PhD and am a SME at a think tank. I've never been interested in being a professor (I've done adjunct work like lots of folks in DC to pad my resume), but it is brutal out there. I think they should have mandatory retirement ages for professors (not just tenured ones, but any full-time faculty).

PP, what are your thoughts here about your parents still teaching while your immediate peers and even younger ones languish because of no openings? I think the LAC where I attended appealed to professors in the upper end of Baby Boom age range to retire by at least 70, if not earlier, in order to create openings for younger staff. A couple of my classmates who were profs and are not yet 65 retired when they hit 30 years in order to do this.

f

In my post I said there should be mandatory retirement ages. I have been bugging my parents to retire since they turned 70. My mom has had two colleagues who the department had to appeal to family members because these folks were still working with early dementia. Their research (and teaching) is their life. It is great that they still love it, but, I think it is time for them to move on.

DCUM ageism never fails. I know a woman in her 40s with long Covid memory issues. You think she should be told to retire?

So frustrating to see this generation fight so fiercely for human decency toward “others” yet proudly and with zero self-awareness, discriminate, insult, and devalue older people. Your Tik Tok videos making fun of “boomers” go viral but god forbid we accidentally mess up your preferred pronoun. Hypocrites.

Okay, Joe Biden. Sorry 50+ year of professional power wasn't enough for you.

Ha. Exactly what I would expect. Finance bros also can’t comprehend that power does not appeal to everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even our DD who is doing a post grad work year at HYP school in chemistry says the PHD students have warned her off getting one. She doesn’t plan to go into academia if she gets one.

How will the US stay competitive with this type of system? HYP fully funds these types of PhDs!

+1. It is not just humanities PHDs who have trouble finding jobs in academia. Academia is basically run by the elderly now. Both of my parents are PhDs and professors at a university. They are 78 and 76 and have no plans to retire yet. Most of their colleagues are boomers or older. I"m a gen-xer with a PhD and am a SME at a think tank. I've never been interested in being a professor (I've done adjunct work like lots of folks in DC to pad my resume), but it is brutal out there. I think they should have mandatory retirement ages for professors (not just tenured ones, but any full-time faculty).

PP, what are your thoughts here about your parents still teaching while your immediate peers and even younger ones languish because of no openings? I think the LAC where I attended appealed to professors in the upper end of Baby Boom age range to retire by at least 70, if not earlier, in order to create openings for younger staff. A couple of my classmates who were profs and are not yet 65 retired when they hit 30 years in order to do this.

f

In my post I said there should be mandatory retirement ages. I have been bugging my parents to retire since they turned 70. My mom has had two colleagues who the department had to appeal to family members because these folks were still working with early dementia. Their research (and teaching) is their life. It is great that they still love it, but, I think it is time for them to move on.

DCUM ageism never fails. I know a woman in her 40s with long Covid memory issues. You think she should be told to retire?

So frustrating to see this generation fight so fiercely for human decency toward “others” yet proudly and with zero self-awareness, discriminate, insult, and devalue older people. Your Tik Tok videos making fun of “boomers” go viral but god forbid we accidentally mess up your preferred pronoun. Hypocrites.

Okay, Joe Biden. Sorry 50+ year of professional power wasn't enough for you.

Go away Trumpy. Your Q-drops are in a different forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My spouse and I both have PhDs. One of us is a professor and the other is a fed. Our combined HHI is $160k. I am positive we would be making more if we'd gone to law school, transitioned to tech, almost anything really. I agree it was kind of a waste of prime years, and discourage others from getting PhDs.

That said, how representative is the Director of New Tech making $350k after getting an MA at 20? My guess is about as representative as the grad with a TT job at an R1 in a desirable location - this is the best case scenario, not the norm for someone with an MA in Poli Sci. It's exactly the same unrealistic promise the letter writer criticizes the university for.

This is an excellent point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even our DD who is doing a post grad work year at HYP school in chemistry says the PHD students have warned her off getting one. She doesn’t plan to go into academia if she gets one.

How will the US stay competitive with this type of system? HYP fully funds these types of PhDs!

+1. It is not just humanities PHDs who have trouble finding jobs in academia. Academia is basically run by the elderly now. Both of my parents are PhDs and professors at a university. They are 78 and 76 and have no plans to retire yet. Most of their colleagues are boomers or older. I"m a gen-xer with a PhD and am a SME at a think tank. I've never been interested in being a professor (I've done adjunct work like lots of folks in DC to pad my resume), but it is brutal out there. I think they should have mandatory retirement ages for professors (not just tenured ones, but any full-time faculty).

PP, what are your thoughts here about your parents still teaching while your immediate peers and even younger ones languish because of no openings? I think the LAC where I attended appealed to professors in the upper end of Baby Boom age range to retire by at least 70, if not earlier, in order to create openings for younger staff. A couple of my classmates who were profs and are not yet 65 retired when they hit 30 years in order to do this.

f

In my post I said there should be mandatory retirement ages. I have been bugging my parents to retire since they turned 70. My mom has had two colleagues who the department had to appeal to family members because these folks were still working with early dementia. Their research (and teaching) is their life. It is great that they still love it, but, I think it is time for them to move on.

DCUM ageism never fails. I know a woman in her 40s with long Covid memory issues. You think she should be told to retire?

So frustrating to see this generation fight so fiercely for human decency toward “others” yet proudly and with zero self-awareness, discriminate, insult, and devalue older people. Your Tik Tok videos making fun of “boomers” go viral but god forbid we accidentally mess up your preferred pronoun. Hypocrites.

Okay, Joe Biden. Sorry 50+ year of professional power wasn't enough for you.

Ha. Exactly what I would expect. Finance bros also can’t comprehend that power does not appeal to everyone.

Blocking their younger colleagues from ever advancing which in turns blocks their younger colleagues from ever getting onto the bottom rung does seem to appeal to boomer professors though

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even our DD who is doing a post grad work year at HYP school in chemistry says the PHD students have warned her off getting one. She doesn’t plan to go into academia if she gets one.

How will the US stay competitive with this type of system? HYP fully funds these types of PhDs!

+1. It is not just humanities PHDs who have trouble finding jobs in academia. Academia is basically run by the elderly now. Both of my parents are PhDs and professors at a university. They are 78 and 76 and have no plans to retire yet. Most of their colleagues are boomers or older. I"m a gen-xer with a PhD and am a SME at a think tank. I've never been interested in being a professor (I've done adjunct work like lots of folks in DC to pad my resume), but it is brutal out there. I think they should have mandatory retirement ages for professors (not just tenured ones, but any full-time faculty).

PP, what are your thoughts here about your parents still teaching while your immediate peers and even younger ones languish because of no openings? I think the LAC where I attended appealed to professors in the upper end of Baby Boom age range to retire by at least 70, if not earlier, in order to create openings for younger staff. A couple of my classmates who were profs and are not yet 65 retired when they hit 30 years in order to do this.

f

In my post I said there should be mandatory retirement ages. I have been bugging my parents to retire since they turned 70. My mom has had two colleagues who the department had to appeal to family members because these folks were still working with early dementia. Their research (and teaching) is their life. It is great that they still love it, but, I think it is time for them to move on.

DCUM ageism never fails. I know a woman in her 40s with long Covid memory issues. You think she should be told to retire?

So frustrating to see this generation fight so fiercely for human decency toward “others” yet proudly and with zero self-awareness, discriminate, insult, and devalue older people. Your Tik Tok videos making fun of “boomers” go viral but god forbid we accidentally mess up your preferred pronoun. Hypocrites.

Okay, Joe Biden. Sorry 50+ year of professional power wasn't enough for you.

Ha. Exactly what I would expect. Finance bros also can’t comprehend that power does not appeal to everyone.

Blocking their younger colleagues from ever advancing which in turns blocks their younger colleagues from ever getting onto the bottom rung does seem to appeal to boomer professors though

NP. They're not blocking anyone because colleges aren't hiring TT professors; they're hiring adjuncts who this this is a career path. It's not

[Anonymous]

Finally someone dropping truth.

Electrician, mechanic, carpenter, elevator repair man, etc.= 100x more valuable than any PhD poli sci student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A PhD in Chemistry seems way more marketable. Can't they work at some kids of science type company

Not all chemistry is commercially relevant [/quote

Not true. Most PhD chemists have enough knowledge and scientific lab experience to adapt to different jobs. At my job, i work with biochemists, organic, inorganic and physical chemists. Most of us are doing work that has little to do with our thesis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even our DD who is doing a post grad work year at HYP school in chemistry says the PHD students have warned her off getting one. She doesn’t plan to go into academia if she gets one.

How will the US stay competitive with this type of system? HYP fully funds these types of PhDs!

The pharmaceutical industry needs medicinal chemists badly. It's a great career with great benefits, lifestyle and salary. Yes, I'm a PhD working in the industry. Come play with me Johnnie.

PP here. Great to hear and I’ve advised her to pursue this area but we shall see. Her interest is a current hot topic and shall continue to be one.